On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
In any case, I just want to say I was suggesting the double bruiser idea as more of a "try it" rather than claiming that it would work. As a player I tend to be very formulaic and stick very closely to the meta and even when things change I am slow to adapt (like I said, I don't jungle Shyvana and I build IE as my first big item when I AD carry). However, for those who like to theorycraft and come up with interesting ideas I think the best thing to do is to try it in a real game and see if there's any merit behind the numbers/idea.
On February 07 2012 12:46 zulu_nation8 wrote: a team of eves can avoid the issue of towers with the same strat
I don't get why you see the need to troll with just about every sentence you say here but Eve is a bad champion whereas most popular tanky dps like Shyvana, Jax etc. are good champions
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane - all you need is 350 armor and Mundo/Singed levels of regen? That's begging the enemy team to focus on magical damage and blow the shit out of the guy who spent 10k on Armor items. I get the sentiment of what you're trying to say, but any team based around protracted fights will still have an advantage at the tower, even if you spend all your money on anti-tower defenses.
I've kind of found that currently that doesn't seem to happen so much that they have a ton of magic dmg. Personally I tend to just stack armor and HP unless they have like a triple AP comp or 2 APs who are fed. As every caster gets a Void and they tend to be more bursty it's usually more beneficial to go with armor and HP. With just mercs and mres per lvl runes you'll usually have around 100 mres, and with like 3500 hp as well that should survive most of the burst.
Obviously there's exceptions, but in general you'll be fine with stacking armor, oh and...
You just need one person to have the 350 armor or so, and that's not all that difficult to reach in the lategame. Don't even need that much armor as yeah the diminishing returns become so high after a while, but even so diving turrets isn't such a crazy thing that you can completely prevent it by just camping there or whatever
On February 07 2012 12:33 Terranasaur wrote:
On February 07 2012 09:38 Shikyo wrote:
On February 07 2012 09:35 Terranasaur wrote:
On February 07 2012 09:23 Shikyo wrote:
On February 07 2012 09:09 Two_DoWn wrote:
On February 07 2012 09:06 mr_tolkien wrote:
On February 07 2012 08:15 Two_DoWn wrote: [quote] Post last whisper I'd say no.
Buying tankiness increases your 1v1 capabilites so I'd be tempted to say yes.
But the big problem will be teamfights : having a ranged auto attacker doing very high damage is highly beneficial for the team, and creates the whole teamfight dynamic.
I cant say I have actually tested every combination possible, but a 6 item trist pretty much shits on everything and everyone not named nasus.
In 1v1 if the tanky dps builds specifically for 1v1?
At least JAX, Yi, Tryndamere, Sion, Rammus, Gangplank, Xin Zhao, Shyvana are going to beat Tristana at 6 items imo, probably Irelia and Poppy too.
I don't think this is the argument. I think the question is, if you take a Ranged AD with regular ranged AD build, let's call it Zerkers, IE, PD, BT, LW, GA. Against a Ranged AD with a bruiser build, Mercs, Warmogs, Atmas, Trinity, Wits, FoN (or something similar) who would win.
If you remove wits and FoN that are bad and replace with Thornmail and Randuins Omen funny things happen even with LW.
Shit dude, do you even read? He said BRUISER build. He didn't say FULL TANK.
Warmog Atmas Trinity = Bruiser. You're supposed to build full tank after that, the Trinity is already pushing it. I wouldn't go wits end with that anyway, Randuins/Frozen Heart + FoN generally but Thornmail in that specific case.
There are no diminishing returns on armor. The fact that towers have percent arpen is worth mentioning, but that is not diminishing returns. Also, I'd like to see a team engage 5v5 under a turret without an advantage and come out with the win. You don't start diving turrets until you have a significant lead because they are that strong.
Diminishing returns in comparison to buying more hp, especially considering LWs, is basically what I meant
That isn't what diminishing returns means, but if you want to use it improperly I have no means to stop you.
On February 07 2012 09:23 sinii wrote: Can someone explain to me why I keep getting top pick in ranked games every time?
Top elo gets first pick right? So why do I keep getting placed with lower elo players then myself?
I want to play with people equal or better then me ffs
The matchmaking algorithm creates several bands when assigning teams. This means that the algorithm will look at who is currently in queue and then create cut-off points for each team based on the current pool of Elo. Let's say that it creates an upper bound of 1570 and a lower bound of 1430. It then extracts all players in this range and assigns the players closest to 1570 as the team captains, and the players closest to 1430 as the last picks (after adjusting for the 200 Elo variance from Blue/Purple side). People in between 1430 and 1570 are then spread across the teams created.
The algorithm adjusts bounds and distributions based on the people in queue and acceptable Elo variance. If you're consistently being first pick regardless of whether you lose or win, it suggests that when you queue you're most likely the highest Elo player amongst the people queueing when the algorithm creates the cut off points. If you really want to be lower down in picking, then it'd probably be advisable to duo with someone a bit higher than you.
How often does that happen? Does it make new bands every second and update them, or make them every minute or so and wait for people to fill them up?
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
In any case, I just want to say I was suggesting the double bruiser idea as more of a "try it" rather than claiming that it would work. As a player I tend to be very formulaic and stick very closely to the meta and even when things change I am slow to adapt (like I said, I don't jungle Shyvana and I build IE as my first big item when I AD carry). However, for those who like to theorycraft and come up with interesting ideas I think the best thing to do is to try it in a real game and see if there's any merit behind the numbers/idea.
How's that from my match history?
It's possible though, as at 5am I usually just troll normals. How'd you like my AD Karma build? Or mass archangel shaco?
Then again I really can't for the life of me recall myself playing Pantheon this year. Are you quoting a build of mine from a year ago? By the way in case you are, it's really shitty and assholey of you to quote a trollbuild from a year ago and imply I think that's good.
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
In any case, I just want to say I was suggesting the double bruiser idea as more of a "try it" rather than claiming that it would work. As a player I tend to be very formulaic and stick very closely to the meta and even when things change I am slow to adapt (like I said, I don't jungle Shyvana and I build IE as my first big item when I AD carry). However, for those who like to theorycraft and come up with interesting ideas I think the best thing to do is to try it in a real game and see if there's any merit behind the numbers/idea.
How's that from my match history?
It's possible though, as at 5am I usually just troll normals. How'd you like my AD Karma build? Or mass archangel shaco?
Then again I really can't for the life of me recall myself playing Pantheon this year. Are you quoting a build of mine from a year ago? By the way in case you are, it's really shitty and assholey of you to quote a trollbuild from a year ago and imply I think that's good.
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
Pfft he's like the strongest carry in the game, just need to not die in lane. Defensive masteries help.
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
In any case, I just want to say I was suggesting the double bruiser idea as more of a "try it" rather than claiming that it would work. As a player I tend to be very formulaic and stick very closely to the meta and even when things change I am slow to adapt (like I said, I don't jungle Shyvana and I build IE as my first big item when I AD carry). However, for those who like to theorycraft and come up with interesting ideas I think the best thing to do is to try it in a real game and see if there's any merit behind the numbers/idea.
How's that from my match history?
It's possible though, as at 5am I usually just troll normals. How'd you like my AD Karma build? Or mass archangel shaco?
Then again I really can't for the life of me recall myself playing Pantheon this year. Are you quoting a build of mine from a year ago? By the way in case you are, it's really shitty and assholey of you to quote a trollbuild from a year ago and imply I think that's good.
On February 07 2012 12:18 Shikyo wrote: Kind of overestimating towers... In a tanky dps team, all you need is a ~350 armor tanky dude to tank the turret and it probably won't even tickle him. For instance mundo with his ulti can just about completely negate a turret. Even so, ranged ADs indeed are the best for pushing towers and they also can generally build pure dps.
Quoting this because even for you this is kind of insane.
Slightly off topic, but this actually made me wonder how much of Shikyo's theorycrafting is actually put into practice by Shikyo.
So I actually looked through his match history to see what kinds of things he builds and then I found this:
In any case, I just want to say I was suggesting the double bruiser idea as more of a "try it" rather than claiming that it would work. As a player I tend to be very formulaic and stick very closely to the meta and even when things change I am slow to adapt (like I said, I don't jungle Shyvana and I build IE as my first big item when I AD carry). However, for those who like to theorycraft and come up with interesting ideas I think the best thing to do is to try it in a real game and see if there's any merit behind the numbers/idea.
How's that from my match history?
It's possible though, as at 5am I usually just troll normals. How'd you like my AD Karma build? Or mass archangel shaco?
Then again I really can't for the life of me recall myself playing Pantheon this year. Are you quoting a build of mine from a year ago? By the way in case you are, it's really shitty and assholey of you to quote a trollbuild from a year ago and imply I think that's good.
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
wat? that doesn't make any sense to me..
His stealth gimmick makes him weaker than ashe in lane and therefore unviable as an ad carry? You might have success with him as some sort of roamer or jungle, but you're handicapping yourself if you play him bottom lane instead of another ad carry. Unless you can get farmed enough to penta their team with his R (and even that would require them to stack up like idiots) then there's really nothing he offers besides stealth which is broken at best until the stealth rework.
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
wat? that doesn't make any sense to me..
His stealth gimmick makes him weaker than ashe in lane and therefore unviable as an ad carry? You might have success with him as some sort of roamer or jungle, but you're handicapping yourself if you play him bottom lane instead of another ad carry. Unless you can get farmed enough to penta their team with his R (and even that would require them to stack up like idiots) then there's really nothing he offers besides stealth which is broken at best until the stealth rework.
You level stealth in lane? Level expunge and surprise surprise, that ashe gets stunned by anything and you pew pew pew W pew pew E and she dies from half hp almost
Btw on the topic of Twitch I beat a Gangplank solo top with him. Kiting and Expunge too stronk.
By the way you're COMPLETELY undervalueing the ability to walk around in stealth in the midgame and pick stray people off. He can gank in the midgame too.
On February 07 2012 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote: CLG losing to v8 in 2nd scrim of the night, HotShotGG speaks: "$1000 salary reduction if we don't watch the fucking replay at the end of the night." lulz. Jiji got caught a bunch of times, HotShot useless TPs all over the place, v8 playing really well.
Game 3 happening right now.
lol they win with "animal kingdom" alistar vollibear anivia nunu. too bad there's no animal ad carry
When did rats cease being animals?
i knew someone would point one out to me- technically yes but the rat ceased being a real ad carry post ult nerf imo. Would've been awesome if doublelift picked him though
wat? that doesn't make any sense to me..
His stealth gimmick makes him weaker than ashe in lane and therefore unviable as an ad carry? You might have success with him as some sort of roamer or jungle, but you're handicapping yourself if you play him bottom lane instead of another ad carry. Unless you can get farmed enough to penta their team with his R (and even that would require them to stack up like idiots) then there's really nothing he offers besides stealth which is broken at best until the stealth rework.
I notice people stack up a lot late game. It's kinda hard not to stack when you're chasing. I'd have to agree twitch is probably the strongest (highest potential burst dps) AD carry come late game.
Stealth offers you a bit of protection before teamfights and a sick 10s AD steroid. When no one knows where you are, they don't get into position to gib you. He doesn't really need to be able to penta a team to be useful. Quadra is just fine :p
So I want to start a movement to get Nocturne's ult un-nerfed. His level 1 ult should be what his level 2 is now, and just put his level 2 as something between what his current level 2 is and current level 3.
But I mean FFS this shit is just PATHETIC atm. And this is coming off a game where I went 7-2-10.
The initial nerfs were WAY before the current warding/other jungle champs so it worked (ish) back then, but now its just not enough. And even with a buffed ult there are about 8 other junglers with scarier level 6 ults from a pure power standpoint. Noct just needs the darkness back T_T.
EPT![[image loading]](http://oi39.tinypic.com/f5niq.jpg)
