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On January 20 2012 13:12 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:08 FR4CT4L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 12:50 Nos- wrote:
Is it viable to solo queue ranked game to around 1500~ ELO on the NA servers? So far my record is equal number of wins to losses, as the quality of teammates is ridiculously erratic going from completely incompetent teams who have little idea what they're doing to people that coordinate ganks/dragons/baron/golems/pushes and play like a legitimate team. Has this been a common experience for anyone else on the NA servers? Viable is such a bizarre choice of word. Is it possible to solo Q to that elo? Well yes just look at any of TL NA who are at or above 1500. Is the quality of the games erratic? Well in my opinion it's hopelessly erratic with people doing some of the stupidest things I have ever seen even up to the highest I've been which is 1600. I do find this very odd since gold and above is supposed to be the top 3% of the ranked player base. On the other hand I think the only reason I see the games in this manner is that I'm not a 2k Elo player who can just put on the carry pants thus making the majority of their teams poor decisions negligible. I recall locodoco saying once that grinding through I think it was 1500-1700~ was horrible and either side was smooth sailing but can't really tell how valid the statement is. Problem is I really don't like playing carries. I much prefer playing the support role (ie Janna/soraka/sona) and help the team by placing down wards and calling for coordinated plays. Should I just learn how to carry a team and change up my playstyle?
Add chairman ray to your fl
He's a very capable player who mains support at gold level. His play is really solid and he's a TLer
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Supports do have a large impact on the game, but you need a certain average level of ability on your team first.
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On January 20 2012 14:12 Nos- wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 14:00 FR4CT4L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:39 ZeromuS wrote:On January 20 2012 13:29 FR4CT4L wrote:On January 20 2012 13:12 Nos- wrote:On January 20 2012 13:08 FR4CT4L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 12:50 Nos- wrote:
Is it viable to solo queue ranked game to around 1500~ ELO on the NA servers? So far my record is equal number of wins to losses, as the quality of teammates is ridiculously erratic going from completely incompetent teams who have little idea what they're doing to people that coordinate ganks/dragons/baron/golems/pushes and play like a legitimate team. Has this been a common experience for anyone else on the NA servers? Viable is such a bizarre choice of word. Is it possible to solo Q to that elo? Well yes just look at any of TL NA who are at or above 1500. Is the quality of the games erratic? Well in my opinion it's hopelessly erratic with people doing some of the stupidest things I have ever seen even up to the highest I've been which is 1600. I do find this very odd since gold and above is supposed to be the top 3% of the ranked player base. On the other hand I think the only reason I see the games in this manner is that I'm not a 2k Elo player who can just put on the carry pants thus making the majority of their teams poor decisions negligible. I recall locodoco saying once that grinding through I think it was 1500-1700~ was horrible and either side was smooth sailing but can't really tell how valid the statement is. Problem is I really don't like playing carries. I much prefer playing the support role (ie Janna/soraka/sona) and help the team by placing down wards and calling for coordinated plays. Should I just learn how to carry a team and change up my playstyle? Well naturally the assumption is that you should just pick solo top/mid/jungle crush the other laners and pile-drive through to a win. Which is lovely and all if you are actually THAT much better than the other team and I see it as misguided advice. Honestly I see no reason you couldn't have positive results playing a support. Just take a look at Spinesheath. A good support makes a big difference. Having a more farmed AD carry is very strong. Having more map vision and control is very strong. Having the information to make calls is very strong. Having greater dragon control because your bot lane has control is very strong. Being able to forcibly take the enemy blue/red because your bot lane is stronger and has vision. If you become good enough 1v2 zoning the enemy bot lane even becomes a possibility and has the added bonus of making you feel like a boss. I only play unranked as I just got the game but when someone actually takes a support character and I can see where people are because this person is smart enough to use wards and help where needed it just makes everything easier. Being stuck with multiple carries means no one really gets enough gold and the team with a balanced lineup seems to win way more often. It just seems like a balanced lineup will beat any other lineup of a relatively even skill level. Just because its balanced and everyone can do their job better. Its like trying to play CS with knife only maybe a few pistols on one team and the other team gets real weapons. No matter how good you are, unless you are pro level and can overcome the obvious disadvantage the team that buys weapons is going to actually win the game if both teams are close to the same skill. Well this is exactly it. There is a reason the current meta exists. Having these lane set-ups is not only easy it's also extremely effective. There are minor deviations such as the Leona/Jarman kill lane set-up A picture of a Goose have been running but Leona still cedes all the farm to Jarvan, builds gp/10 and handles the majority of the ward wars. Healer supports are also super strong in lower level unranked games since people suck at focus fire. So skimming the outside of the fight making sure nobody dies is a walk in the park. My record with supports are fairly decent, averaging around 2 kills 2 deaths and 10 assists per game. However as a support I can't influence the flow of a game like a carry can. Late game all I can do is hope that my carry can pull us through when a team fight happens. I can definitely help swing the tides in our favour, but ultimately I, as support, will not be the deciding factor.
I think that in solo que you need to make a choice every game:
Do you want win the game more then learning your main role, support in this case?
Or do you want to learn your main role and have less chance of winning?
If you really do enjoy playing support more the carries then I would choose number 2. Put simply you would enjoy the game more and frankly that is way better then having a certain Elo. I feel that as you improve you will also notice a improvement in Elo. This improvement might not be as obvious as playing a carry, for instance if you play support you might be 1550 in a month but if you play carries you might be 1650, etc. In this case I would also highly recommend finding 4 other guys to play with, or at leash a AD carry. The game because so much different if you can really on your AD carry to at leash not be bat shit stupid, especially as support.
Just some advice hope it helps you out!
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On January 20 2012 14:17 Craton wrote:
Supports do have a large impact on the game, but you need a certain average level of ability on your team first.
Is that actually true though? Like lets say I took we took you and gave you a 1200 level account and forced you to only play support. Will you actually just sit stagnantly at 1200? I mean this just seems crazy to me. Surely your Elo would trend upwards over time. It might not be the kind of 25 wins 0 loses stomp-fest that we'd see with you on a solo champ/jungle but I feel it would reach gold(I wanted to say plat as that is your ranking but I have no idea if your support is more at say 1700-1800 while your other roles are at 2k or something).
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Too bad none of my friends want to deal with any type of MOBAs or their respective communities lol. But thanks for all the advice , I think i'll just keep trucking with my support roles and see how far that takes me.
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Wow, that game was crazy.
Starts off with a 5-man invade, first blood on the opponent malz, we steal mumus blue (he takes mine though QQ). We kill the opponent malz again as he tries to save the mumu running away with my blue.
Fast forward a bit, Udyr keeps splitpushing and never teamfights, sona feeds the opponent vayne T_T
30 mins in, they are taking our mid inhib turret, they kill most of our team and then go for baron. I run over there and manage to steal it with my sapling toss (:D).
Our team managed to take 2-3 towers with the baron, but they were smart enough not to engage head on a fed vayne.
Anyways, baron ran out, they kept dominating teamfights with vayne, even when she was focused down.
At one point we were defending our two nexus turrets against 5 opponents with baron.
I W in, soak a ton of damage, and die, but this time our team manages to kill every opponent except vayne for a 4-1 exchange. They push mid all the way through to the nexus and win the game before the opponents respawn to defend.
One bad teamfight to ruin them all :D
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Moonbear, or...Chihuraze or whatever it is now. :D
I just read a pretty depressing thread on the GD forums (even though it's usually a cesspool)...it was basically this guy complaining about how he's been banned over and over for simply playing Eve because it makes his team rage and feed and troll him and such.
Now while I don't necessarily believe his story, it was the second part that got to me....he starts talking about 'what if it was your champion that got nerfed into unplayability, I've been playing her since Beta, blah blah blah.'
I actually considered it for a moment, and it made me sad. Is there any way you could get any word, any word at all from Riot about if the stealth remake is even happening? To be honest it's seeming more like the Magma Chamber fiasco...they released info they shouldn't have and got everyone's hopes up, and resources had to be directed elsewhere, so it's constantly bottom rung, ie. will never come to fruition since it's such low priority.
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On January 20 2012 14:31 FR4CT4L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:17 Craton wrote:
Supports do have a large impact on the game, but you need a certain average level of ability on your team first. Is that actually true though? Like lets say I took we took you and gave you a 1200 level account and forced you to only play support. Will you actually just sit stagnantly at 1200? I mean this just seems crazy to me. Surely your Elo would trend upwards over time. It might not be the kind of 25 wins 0 loses stomp-fest that we'd see with you on a solo champ/jungle but I feel it would reach gold(I wanted to say plat as that is your ranking but I have no idea if your support is more at say 1700-1800 while your other roles are at 2k or something).
I think it depends on the champion.
I'm sure i could carry every game at 1200 with alistar for example.
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God I feel so bad for dyrus. It looks like TSM turned down all the heat to the house when they left for Kiev, now dyrus has to huddle in a blanket for warmth.
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On January 20 2012 14:31 FR4CT4L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:17 Craton wrote:
Supports do have a large impact on the game, but you need a certain average level of ability on your team first. Is that actually true though? Like lets say I took we took you and gave you a 1200 level account and forced you to only play support. Will you actually just sit stagnantly at 1200? I mean this just seems crazy to me. Surely your Elo would trend upwards over time. It might not be the kind of 25 wins 0 loses stomp-fest that we'd see with you on a solo champ/jungle but I feel it would reach gold(I wanted to say plat as that is your ranking but I have no idea if your support is more at say 1700-1800 while your other roles are at 2k or something).
From my personal experience, I rose from 1200 to 1400 playing almost entirely support, getting to 1500 it stopped being as effective though. But that's not nearly a large enough sample size to draw anything definitive. It depends a lot on the skill of your AD carry, because if they suck you're going to end up being useless most of the time (You'll be even more underleveled than usual and have no assist money). And you need to make sure you communicate with your jungler so that you can CV the right places (if applicable) and call dragon/enemy doing dragon etc. Not really sure where I was going with this post..
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On January 20 2012 14:45 WaveofShadow wrote:
Moonbear, or...Chihuraze or whatever it is now. :D
I just read a pretty depressing thread on the GD forums (even though it's usually a cesspool)...it was basically this guy complaining about how he's been banned over and over for simply playing Eve because it makes his team rage and feed and troll him and such.
Now while I don't necessarily believe his story, it was the second part that got to me....he starts talking about 'what if it was your champion that got nerfed into unplayability, I've been playing her since Beta, blah blah blah.'
I actually considered it for a moment, and it made me sad. Is there any way you could get any word, any word at all from Riot about if the stealth remake is even happening? To be honest it's seeming more like the Magma Chamber fiasco...they released info they shouldn't have and got everyone's hopes up, and resources had to be directed elsewhere, so it's constantly bottom rung, ie. will never come to fruition since it's such low priority.
I remember (and certainly Smash remembers) when Panth got raped with the nerf bat. It was sad but they gradually tinkered till finally now hes in his current state. Was so sad when he got hit hard with nerfs though  He was like the 2nd champ I bought after Karthus.
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On January 20 2012 14:31 FR4CT4L wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:17 Craton wrote:
Supports do have a large impact on the game, but you need a certain average level of ability on your team first. Is that actually true though? Like lets say I took we took you and gave you a 1200 level account and forced you to only play support. Will you actually just sit stagnantly at 1200? I mean this just seems crazy to me. Surely your Elo would trend upwards over time. It might not be the kind of 25 wins 0 loses stomp-fest that we'd see with you on a solo champ/jungle but I feel it would reach gold(I wanted to say plat as that is your ranking but I have no idea if your support is more at say 1700-1800 while your other roles are at 2k or something).
I'd gain Elo and it'd be largely because (just like at all Elo) nobody wants to play the support so everyone half-asses the role. You can make little differences here and there like saving your carry from a full-retard moment (whereas their support won't), but you're not going to have the impact that a godlike carry/bruiser could have.
Now while I don't necessarily believe his story, it was the second part that got to me....he starts talking about 'what if it was your champion that got nerfed into unplayability, I've been playing her since Beta, blah blah blah.'
Malz isn't exactly unplayable, but he is pretty neutered. You just move on to another champion until Riot does something 12 months later.
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don't know if anyone else has tried it, I ran a bunch of ionic spark teemo games and I have to say it felt like garbage. didn't seem it was doing anything
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On January 20 2012 14:15 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:12 Nos- wrote:On January 20 2012 13:08 FR4CT4L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 12:50 Nos- wrote:
Is it viable to solo queue ranked game to around 1500~ ELO on the NA servers? So far my record is equal number of wins to losses, as the quality of teammates is ridiculously erratic going from completely incompetent teams who have little idea what they're doing to people that coordinate ganks/dragons/baron/golems/pushes and play like a legitimate team. Has this been a common experience for anyone else on the NA servers? Viable is such a bizarre choice of word. Is it possible to solo Q to that elo? Well yes just look at any of TL NA who are at or above 1500. Is the quality of the games erratic? Well in my opinion it's hopelessly erratic with people doing some of the stupidest things I have ever seen even up to the highest I've been which is 1600. I do find this very odd since gold and above is supposed to be the top 3% of the ranked player base. On the other hand I think the only reason I see the games in this manner is that I'm not a 2k Elo player who can just put on the carry pants thus making the majority of their teams poor decisions negligible. I recall locodoco saying once that grinding through I think it was 1500-1700~ was horrible and either side was smooth sailing but can't really tell how valid the statement is. Problem is I really don't like playing carries. I much prefer playing the support role (ie Janna/soraka/sona) and help the team by placing down wards and calling for coordinated plays. Should I just learn how to carry a team and change up my playstyle? Add chairman ray to your fl He's a very capable player who mains support at gold level. His play is really solid and he's a TLer
Aww tanks <3
@Nos - At low ELO, Taric and Leona are able to carry since they punish the enemy hard for being out of position in lane. It happens a lot. They're especially good when you have a non range ad bot, which happens a lot in low ELO games. I've laned with trynds, cho gaths, annies, etc, and it's quite an effective combo. I got to 1400 with a 70% win rate as Taric. Once you are mid 1400's, the support role starts to become more useful to your team as a whole, but you no longer get easy lane kills, so learn all the supports to complement your team and counterpick the enemy team.
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On January 20 2012 15:02 UniversalSnip wrote:
don't know if anyone else has tried it, I ran a bunch of ionic spark teemo games and I have to say it felt like garbage. didn't seem it was doing anything
Yeah, it just doesnt seem to be standing up to the gold-standard of Wit's End as far as items that are "AS, on hit, and a defensive stat" especially in the awkward gold range of 2kish
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A decent support makes a decent ad carry look great.
A decent support makes a bad ad carry look decent.
A GREAT support makes a bad ad carry a god.
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On January 20 2012 15:15 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:15 gtrsrs wrote:On January 20 2012 13:12 Nos- wrote:On January 20 2012 13:08 FR4CT4L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 12:50 Nos- wrote:
Is it viable to solo queue ranked game to around 1500~ ELO on the NA servers? So far my record is equal number of wins to losses, as the quality of teammates is ridiculously erratic going from completely incompetent teams who have little idea what they're doing to people that coordinate ganks/dragons/baron/golems/pushes and play like a legitimate team. Has this been a common experience for anyone else on the NA servers? Viable is such a bizarre choice of word. Is it possible to solo Q to that elo? Well yes just look at any of TL NA who are at or above 1500. Is the quality of the games erratic? Well in my opinion it's hopelessly erratic with people doing some of the stupidest things I have ever seen even up to the highest I've been which is 1600. I do find this very odd since gold and above is supposed to be the top 3% of the ranked player base. On the other hand I think the only reason I see the games in this manner is that I'm not a 2k Elo player who can just put on the carry pants thus making the majority of their teams poor decisions negligible. I recall locodoco saying once that grinding through I think it was 1500-1700~ was horrible and either side was smooth sailing but can't really tell how valid the statement is. Problem is I really don't like playing carries. I much prefer playing the support role (ie Janna/soraka/sona) and help the team by placing down wards and calling for coordinated plays. Should I just learn how to carry a team and change up my playstyle? Add chairman ray to your fl He's a very capable player who mains support at gold level. His play is really solid and he's a TLer Aww tanks <3 @Nos - At low ELO, Taric and Leona are able to carry since they punish the enemy hard for being out of position in lane. It happens a lot. They're especially good when you have a non range ad bot, which happens a lot in low ELO games. I've laned with trynds, cho gaths, annies, etc, and it's quite an effective combo. I got to 1400 with a 70% win rate as Taric. Once you are mid 1400's, the support role starts to become more useful to your team as a whole, but you no longer get easy lane kills, so learn all the supports to complement your team and counterpick the enemy team.
I have pretty much the exact opposite experience >_>
I'm always hovering around 1550 and my alistar's 0-4 ._. Taric is ok, but this was also below 1400 and nobody realized that taric has burst. Meanwhile my soraka is 80%~ with majority played at gold level.
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On January 20 2012 13:12 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 13:08 FR4CT4L wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 20 2012 12:50 Nos- wrote:
Is it viable to solo queue ranked game to around 1500~ ELO on the NA servers? So far my record is equal number of wins to losses, as the quality of teammates is ridiculously erratic going from completely incompetent teams who have little idea what they're doing to people that coordinate ganks/dragons/baron/golems/pushes and play like a legitimate team. Has this been a common experience for anyone else on the NA servers? Viable is such a bizarre choice of word. Is it possible to solo Q to that elo? Well yes just look at any of TL NA who are at or above 1500. Is the quality of the games erratic? Well in my opinion it's hopelessly erratic with people doing some of the stupidest things I have ever seen even up to the highest I've been which is 1600. I do find this very odd since gold and above is supposed to be the top 3% of the ranked player base. On the other hand I think the only reason I see the games in this manner is that I'm not a 2k Elo player who can just put on the carry pants thus making the majority of their teams poor decisions negligible. I recall locodoco saying once that grinding through I think it was 1500-1700~ was horrible and either side was smooth sailing but can't really tell how valid the statement is. Problem is I really don't like playing carries. I much prefer playing the support role (ie Janna/soraka/sona) and help the team by placing down wards and calling for coordinated plays. Should I just learn how to carry a team and change up my playstyle?
Lean to play support blitz. You can carry games by creating good engagements for your ad and still have some ability at keeping him safe assuming you can do some sort of coordination and your ad carry pays attention to your grabs... and it's fun as shit. It's the same reason I tend to play Alistar in solo queue more often than other supports. Despite playing support, you can still dictate a lot of the action and with proper play you can drag your AD carry with you rather than the other way around.
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I think people underestimate the effect support can have on their lane and on the game in general. a lot of the effect requires more pinging (dragon being huge), but even simple things can make a huge difference. For example, pink warding the opposing wards and telling your jungler to gank works like 95% of the time at ~1500.
I have a friend that plays almost exclusively soraka and is just shy of 1600. 32/51 games as soraka with like 71% win rate.
no one knows the shit you can do as support because no one wants to main it. there are barely any sona/soraka/taric guides, and alistar guides are all about when he was a nuker. If you know how to support and the opposing support only knows how to mash heal, you win the 2v2 lane and put 2 ppl ahead, with a strong potential for dragons.
soraka's ult is the ultimate troll. it can cause a kill/death swing very, very easily if you're paying attention, which has a huge impact on the game. (like if karths knew how to ult to help fights instead of just cleaning up) Proper sona ults can win teamfights/skirmishes outright. janna ults likewise.
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EPT
