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On January 20 2012 06:19 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I think this game has a low skill cap. Watching Dyrus and Chu stream these days... so many mistakes.
It's not like starcraft.
how is it low skillcap when the pros make mistakes?
isnt that a sign of high skillcap?
when you have a channeled ult, you buy a banshees. If their team is loaded with ways to stop your channel, then you just made a bad pick if it isnt working :D
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Why are you watching Silver League Streams?
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Oh my god, can they please nerf Sion? solo ranked mid, he is the stupidest shit to go against. He just face rolls with his billion damage and sets up jungle ganks, and get a million creep kills for doing nothing.
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On January 20 2012 06:43 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 06:35 JackDino wrote:On January 20 2012 06:19 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I think this game has a low skill cap. Watching Dyrus and Chu stream these days... so many mistakes.
It's not like starcraft. When I watch a silver league stream I see many mistakes aswell, does that mean sc has a low skillcap aswell? Not the place for this anyways. Since when are Dyrus and Chu comparable to silver leaguers?
He says they play bad, make many mistakes, I just mentioned silver leaguers because they make more mistakes. Replace silver league with idra and you get the same, point is, playing bad doesn't mean low skillcap.
And chu8 comparable to silver league.
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I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion.
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On January 20 2012 06:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion.
If it's in a high lvl tourney game then I agree, random soloq game after streaming for hours means nothing.
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Shaquille O'Neil shot like, less than 60% from the free throw line and was still one of the best centers of all time. Goes to show how fucking terrible everyone is at basketball.
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On January 20 2012 06:44 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 06:19 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I think this game has a low skill cap. Watching Dyrus and Chu stream these days... so many mistakes.
It's not like starcraft. how is it low skillcap when the pros make mistakes? isnt that a sign of high skillcap? when you have a channeled ult, you buy a banshees. If their team is loaded with ways to stop your channel, then you just made a bad pick if it isnt working :D
Also watching people play solo-queue rather than with their team is the equivalent of watching people off-race. And play in TL Attack a lot of the time.
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On January 20 2012 06:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion.
yeah well in that case, many people have made this argument to say game X is better. But still the well known pro teams are consistently on the top in money tournaments, even when riot announced their 5000000$ pricepool half a year ago. So maybe its not all that easy.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 20 2012 06:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion.
And that's largely attributable to the competitive scene being young. You can't draw a causal relationship between the players making mistakes and the game being low skillcap.
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On January 20 2012 06:27 BlackMagister wrote:
What are you supposed to do with channeled ults when the other team has a Soraka? My thoughts are that I need to ult the soraka in the teamfights when I'm WW, but team usually wants to focus someone else so unless my team is stronger it seems like we lose the fight. I guess I could save the ult until right after Soraka uses silence, but it's not a big deal for the soraka to save her silence to prevent an ult.
Also against cc ults it seems like the supports could just get a QSS instead of Shurelias to screw up Galio, WW, Malz ults even if they get caught.
I played a game as soraka with a Kat on the other team. My job in team fights was to silence her when she ulted. She learned pretty quick to wait until I used infuse then jump in and ult. So I just never used infuse except to Kat.
Soraka is such a bitch.
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On January 20 2012 06:30 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 06:12 Cloud wrote:
Anyone here plays katarina top? If so which runes/masteries/build or which match ups do you prefer and which ones do you avoid? Kat is much better mid she has good harass and harass doesn't count for much vs bruisers.
If you do go Kat on top, it'll be a farm fest. you'll rarely win a lane against a bruiser, the best you can hope for is a stalemate.
And most bruisers have some form of stun/interrupt, so even upon reaching level 6, you still won't be able to kill them.
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On January 20 2012 06:49 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 06:43 Roffles wrote:On January 20 2012 06:35 JackDino wrote:On January 20 2012 06:19 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
I think this game has a low skill cap. Watching Dyrus and Chu stream these days... so many mistakes.
It's not like starcraft. When I watch a silver league stream I see many mistakes aswell, does that mean sc has a low skillcap aswell? Not the place for this anyways. Since when are Dyrus and Chu comparable to silver leaguers? He says they play bad, make many mistakes, I just mentioned silver leaguers because they make more mistakes. Replace silver league with idra and you get the same, point is, playing bad doesn't mean low skillcap. And chu8 comparable to silver league.
I think there is a low mechanical skill cap, especially when compared to starcraft, but there is a very high game sense/knowledge skill cap.
To me the difference between top players and very good ones is more so their knowledge of matchups/timings and picks/counterpicks etc. Mechanics are more a distinguisher between low elo scrubs like me and higher up ladder players imo.
I think the same could be said of starcraft where once you got to a certain level of ability (flash, jaedong, stork, bisu, etc.) it was less about their mechanics and more about their understanding of the game.
LoL is the same but the skill level where the mechanics even out is much lower than SC.
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So before his remake, why wasn't Jax seen a lot in high level play? He was pretty much a monster damage dealer with a passively high health pool. Why was he rarely picked?
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On January 20 2012 07:36 Requizen wrote:
So before his remake, why wasn't Jax seen a lot in high level play? He was pretty much a monster damage dealer with a passively high health pool. Why was he rarely picked?
Because he gets stopped very easily. Distruptions completely destroy jax. not to mention randuin's omen & froz heart completely countered jax.
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On January 20 2012 07:36 Requizen wrote:
So before his remake, why wasn't Jax seen a lot in high level play? He was pretty much a monster damage dealer with a passively high health pool. Why was he rarely picked?
not many good jax players
hotshotGG played him with extreme success in a tournament a few months ago though
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On January 20 2012 06:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion.
While I don't know for sure because I don't even watch SC2 anymore I would imagine you see pro players make mistakes every game. 'Cause they made mistakes in Brood War too. You can't find a sport or video game where the top players don't make obvious mistakes from time to time and if you are really knowledgeable about the sport/game you're watching you'll probably notice tons of minor mistakes too.
Like, I don't think top LoL players make more mistakes than people who play other games. Their mistakes are just a lot more noticeable and there are 10 dudes playing at once as opposed to 2 in StarCraft. You might not catch when a pro StarCraft player mis-clicks and builds more Zealots than he should have as easily as you'll catch a LoL player missing three last hits.
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On January 20 2012 07:36 Requizen wrote:
So before his remake, why wasn't Jax seen a lot in high level play? He was pretty much a monster damage dealer with a passively high health pool. Why was he rarely picked?
Picks tend to come in waves. They get picked a whole lot for a period of time, then they just fall off. It tends to be either someone comes up with a strategy for beating it or people just learn more effective combos.
In Jax' case, I think it mostly had to do with the fact that you had to dedicate your entire gameplan around getting your Jax player farmed, which severely limits your options as a team.
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Champions have inertia inversely proportional to their current frequency of play. It only takes the smallest of changes to push current picks into "ridiculously OP" or "completely worthless" territory, but a champion you haven't seen in months needs a lot of work or buffs or an extremely favorable meta to even get considered again.
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On January 20 2012 07:39 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 06:52 BlackMagister wrote:
I think Hidden meant top LoL players make a lot of mistakes. LoL scene hence has a pretty bad skill level if top players are still making that many mistakes. Skill ceiling is not the correct term he should have used which caused a lot of confusion. While I don't know for sure because I don't even watch SC2 anymore I would imagine you see pro players make mistakes every game. 'Cause they made mistakes in Brood War too. You can't find a sport or video game where the top players don't make obvious mistakes from time to time and if you are really knowledgeable about the sport/game you're watching you'll probably notice tons of minor mistakes too. Like, I don't think top LoL players make more mistakes than people who play other games. Their mistakes are just a lot more noticeable and there are 10 dudes playing at once as opposed to 2 in StarCraft. You might not catch when a pro StarCraft player mis-clicks and builds more Zealots than he should have as easily as you'll catch a LoL player missing three last hits.
As someone who watches a lot of BW, LoL pros are flat out bad compared to decent SC players, at least mechanically. Stuff like missing CS is just basic stuff that is still acceptable to do at pro level when under no pressure. Well just let me say that in a year or two of koreans getting into the game that will no longer be the case.
Hell just watch CS in a more mature game like DOTA and compare the difficulty and performance of good players, its a world of difference.
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