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Public Service AnnouncementUse the Champion threads whenever appropriate. Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease. ===== If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD. |
On January 19 2012 09:32 Vei wrote:
What kind of runes should I run as Renekton? And what item build? I was thinking longsword->brutalizer (iirc this builds into that) and then some kind of boots (which type is best?) and then sunfire cape (and then what o_O?)
I usually go Boots + 3 or cloth +5 into 2 dorans -> bruta or wriggles depending on how my lane is going -> mercs -> blood thirster-> GA then either more blood thirsters or frozen mallet/atmas depending on my mood
This could be potentially stupid but I feel like Renek as mass damage is much better than as a "tank"
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United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2012 10:09 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 09:59 sob3k wrote:
What's your guys opinion of Bloodrazor? Should it ever be bought, or is it pretty much always better to go some other armor breaking combo to deal with tanky people?
I lol, if i had a nickel for every time this question comes up, lol. This and gp5 basically what I think is that bloodrazor is going to be a bad pick if you're going to be going standard AD damage build. Last whisper is going to get you a lot more mileage vs high armor targets. On the other hand, it's one of the strongest dps items by itself, so if your build is centered around it, it can be good, but if you've got shit like IE or bloodthirster or pdancer, get last whisper. It's also fallen out of favor as being the 'only dps item' (it had a brief moment of popularity) because wits end fulfills a similar sort of role for soooo much less, bloodrazor is just a really expensive item.
Really? GP10 is probably the beaten-est dead horse in GD but I haven't seen BR discussion that often.
That said, I really need a GD taboo list...
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On January 19 2012 10:10 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 10:09 barbsq wrote:On January 19 2012 09:59 sob3k wrote:
What's your guys opinion of Bloodrazor? Should it ever be bought, or is it pretty much always better to go some other armor breaking combo to deal with tanky people?
I lol, if i had a nickel for every time this question comes up, lol. This and gp5 basically what I think is that bloodrazor is going to be a bad pick if you're going to be going standard AD damage build. Last whisper is going to get you a lot more mileage vs high armor targets. On the other hand, it's one of the strongest dps items by itself, so if your build is centered around it, it can be good, but if you've got shit like IE or bloodthirster or pdancer, get last whisper. It's also fallen out of favor as being the 'only dps item' (it had a brief moment of popularity) because wits end fulfills a similar sort of role for soooo much less, bloodrazor is just a really expensive item. Really? GP10 is probably the beaten-est dead horse in GD but I haven't seen BR discussion that often. That said, I really need a GD taboo list...
i've answered this question 4-5 times now. GP 10 had more of an outburst and much more 'drama' as it were, but there was 1 case where we had a several page discussion regarding BR vs LW, and then it kept cropping up every once in awhile. I'm a bit less frustrated in answering this question tho, kus it just seems so intuitive that BR could be reallly really good vs high armor targets.
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On January 19 2012 10:05 Hyren wrote:
I don't expect an apology from Riot for sabotaging the third party mac client, I just want them to acknowledge it. ACKNOWLEDGE I EXIST DAMNIT.
I have spoken with Boompje and a few Rioters. A fix is in the works.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 19 2012 10:13 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 10:10 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2012 10:09 barbsq wrote:On January 19 2012 09:59 sob3k wrote:
What's your guys opinion of Bloodrazor? Should it ever be bought, or is it pretty much always better to go some other armor breaking combo to deal with tanky people?
I lol, if i had a nickel for every time this question comes up, lol. This and gp5 basically what I think is that bloodrazor is going to be a bad pick if you're going to be going standard AD damage build. Last whisper is going to get you a lot more mileage vs high armor targets. On the other hand, it's one of the strongest dps items by itself, so if your build is centered around it, it can be good, but if you've got shit like IE or bloodthirster or pdancer, get last whisper. It's also fallen out of favor as being the 'only dps item' (it had a brief moment of popularity) because wits end fulfills a similar sort of role for soooo much less, bloodrazor is just a really expensive item. Really? GP10 is probably the beaten-est dead horse in GD but I haven't seen BR discussion that often. That said, I really need a GD taboo list... i've answered this question 4-5 times now. GP 10 had more of an outburst and much more 'drama' as it were, but there was 1 case where we had a several page discussion regarding BR vs LW, and then it kept cropping up every once in awhile. I'm a bit less frustrated in answering this question tho, kus it just seems so intuitive that BR could be reallly really good vs high armor targets.
PM me the pages of your best developed answers please?
I think we need a sticky for questions not to be asked anymore in future GDs.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 19 2012 10:08 clickrush wrote:
you should ofc allways CS when your carry is not there. Same goes for junglers, especially if you just ganked a lane then you should push that lane ASAP IMO. But as far as babysitting goes: theres a reason you never CS when you play an AD+support lane out of simple math. The dota reference is wrong on many levels. Omni is a semi carry and not a support, which is two tiers above the support role (the lowest) in the farming chain. Babysitters in Dota dont CS as well (as long as the carry is able to get the lasthit), and there are sometimes even 2 babysitters for 1 carry.
Even in DotA, 4th and 5th position supports usually end a game with ~50 CS. There are items for supports that are game-changing in ways that can't really compare to carry farm. How the hell will Earthshaker ever make it to Blink Dagger if he doesn't get to clean up some midgame farm?
Of course you don't give supports CS during laning, but there's a big difference between "don't take CS during laning" and "finish the game with less than 10 CS" and most supports in LoL go with the expectation of the latter.
On January 19 2012 10:08 clickrush wrote:
I feel the 'supports need farm too' statement kinda wrong especially if we talk about ward money. Your team gets way better map awareness when everyone wards a little bit while the support does the big chunk. Top and bot have to ward anyways to survive ganks. Mid and jungle should ward too since they are the most mobile. So letting the support farm so he can buy more wards probably only hurts the team as a whole. In the other hand there are some supports that furfill their role way better with some items than without. Especially the tank-supports like taric, leona and mb even alistar. Soraka can be quite strong with some tankyness or AP. Sona in the other hand really doesnt need anything but boots and the stuff you pick up with your base income I guess the same is true for janna as well.
Support gold turns into cost-effective support items whose effects either can't be price-tagged easily (Shurelya's), or provide teamwide benefit that makes them worth the gold (aura items). Saying "a carry could have bought them instead" ignores the fact that carries in this game run out of item slots very quickly.
This is particularly true when a support is close to an item. If a support is 500 gold from Aegis, and an AP carry is 1500 from Void Staff, giving the support that 500 gold farm from a lane is likely to be worthwhile if you're likely to fight before the carry can get Void Staff.
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Does anyone have any suggestions to make Sejuani jungle safer without going Cloth + 5 pot?
I've been going Attack Speed Reds/Armor Quints and Yellows on runes, and 0/21/9 masteries. I figured that'd be enough to make Regrowth + Pot a safe opening, but I need a MAN LEASH to even make it through doubles properly. Anyone have any thoughts?
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On January 19 2012 09:57 Vei wrote:
qq i just died to a gp 1v1 top, why am i so aggressive lol
GP shits on Croc pretty hard. Wait till you have to lane against Trynd -_-
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On January 19 2012 10:17 Seiuchi wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions to make Sejuani jungle safer without going Cloth + 5 pot?
I've been going Attack Speed Reds/Armor Quints and Yellows on runes, and 0/21/9 masteries. I figured that'd be enough to make Regrowth + Pot a safe opening, but I need a MAN LEASH to even make it through doubles properly. Anyone have any thoughts?
Have you tried 21 offense? Sometimes it's better to kill things faster than tanking them. The first 9 points in defense get most of the good jungling masteries anyways.
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On January 19 2012 10:08 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 09:02 barbsq wrote:On January 19 2012 08:21 NeoIllusions wrote:On January 19 2012 08:14 TheYango wrote:On January 19 2012 06:23 Phrost wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why I find omnikight so much fun to play but despise all supports in LoL? Probably because Omni isn't a support in the no-farm, babysit sidelane, pull-creeps sense? He needs gold and levels to hit his stride and isn't good at babysitting. Though TBH I still think that zero-farm supports the way people play them in LoL is wrong. Letting a support get 40-60 CS over the course of the game like supports in DotA do, just to get items out faster and have some extra ward money actually makes a pretty big difference. I agree with this. Even support need some items to make more of an impact come team fights. It's just a matter of when to let your supports get farmed that your carries don't fall behind. i think part of the problem (from what i remember anyways, may not be the case now) was that a lot of times babysitters babysat melee champions, which inevitably means that in a 2v2 scenario, the melee guy is going to miss out on some last hitting opportunities, so there was this idea that part of a support's job is to actively get what your carry can't reach for denying and gold, which leads to some CS. Ranged carries are really the only role so far that has ever really been properly 'babysat' in LoL (afaik), and they have access to far more CS than melee champions do, which i think led to this idea that supports shouldn't even touch the lane. What I do is to try and grab the cs that they can't reach and to grab about 1 every 2 waves or so after the first few waves, kus let's be honest, no matter how good you are, noone gets 100% perfect cs. It's kinda annoying in lol tho, kus u get completely crucified for it, even if it was totally justified. I remember one time where my carry wasn't even there and he freaked out that i was getting last hits (he had gone to go grab red), which is just plain stupid. you should ofc allways CS when your carry is not there. Same goes for junglers, especially if you just ganked a lane then you should push that lane ASAP IMO. But as far as babysitting goes: theres a reason you never CS when you play an AD+support lane out of simple math. The dota reference is wrong on many levels. Omni is a semi carry and not a support, which is two tiers above the support role (the lowest) in the farming chain. Babysitters in Dota dont CS as well (as long as the carry is able to get the lasthit), and there are sometimes even 2 babysitters for 1 carry. however: the ad carry+support lane is not the only duo lane that works as everyone knows here. AD+support is just the safest way to get your carry farmed in a lot of scenarios. However there are some popular AP carries that get shit on by some of the ranged ADs (kassadin comes to mind). I feel the 'supports need farm too' statement kinda wrong especially if we talk about ward money. Your team gets way better map awareness when everyone wards a little bit while the support does the big chunk. Top and bot have to ward anyways to survive ganks. Mid and jungle should ward too since they are the most mobile. So letting the support farm so he can buy more wards probably only hurts the team as a whole. In the other hand there are some supports that furfill their role way better with some items than without. Especially the tank-supports like taric, leona and mb even alistar. Soraka can be quite strong with some tankyness or AP. Sona in the other hand really doesnt need anything but boots and the stuff you pick up with your base income I guess the same is true for janna as well.
i never said anything about omni, and that was addressed by yango 2 levels up.
You also kinda missed the point of what i was saying too. In dota (again this is when i played, which was some time ago) there was an idea that part of the support's JOB is to grab the cs and the denies that the guy you're babysitting simply cannot get. I sort of made an assumption and went out on a limb that this was due to a prevalence of melee carries that needed babysitting, and in all honesty, both due to pathing and the simple nature of 2v2, it was just not realistic for the carry to get every single last hit during the early game.
Now if you have the perspective that there is a max gold amount that the carry can achieve with 100% cs, but no1, not even the very best ranged AD players, will get 100% of it, so IMO, a part of the support's responsibility is to nab that lost CS so that it's actually put to use instead of just going into the void. I think we can agree that a ranged AD with 90% of the farm and a support with 5% of the farm (this is idealized and totally random numbers, but you get the idea) is better than a ranged AD with 90% farm and support with 0. This has nothing to do with 'needing it for buying wards' or anything like that, this is just getting gold that would otherwise be cast into oblivion. I am not saying that the carry is supposed to 'cede' farm to the support, because I agree, they make great use of it, but at the same time they aren't 100% perfect. Hopefully that makes it more clear.
Now there are some problems and some skills that are involved in this. In fact when i was a beginner support player in dota, i got chewed out a lot for fucking up cs and stealing ones that the carry could, in fact, have gotten, but with practice, i got better at predicting which creeps would be available, and from there to really try to balance harassment, last-hitting, and healing (in some cases), which suddenly makes the support role 100x more dynamic, and it became really easy to identify who is really good at support and who isn't. Ideally, what's supposed to happen is that the carry's farm is totally unhindered, but since it's not perfect, there is always some room for the support to nab some.
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On January 19 2012 10:25 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 10:17 Seiuchi wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions to make Sejuani jungle safer without going Cloth + 5 pot?
I've been going Attack Speed Reds/Armor Quints and Yellows on runes, and 0/21/9 masteries. I figured that'd be enough to make Regrowth + Pot a safe opening, but I need a MAN LEASH to even make it through doubles properly. Anyone have any thoughts? Have you tried 21 offense? Sometimes it's better to kill things faster than tanking them. The first 9 points in defense get most of the good jungling masteries anyways.
I guess I'll try it but I've avoided it because none of the offense masteries are actually effective on her generally because she has terrible AP ratios and isn't really getting her damage off autoattacks. Might be necessary just to make her early jungle palatable before W's HP scaling kicks in I guess.
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On January 19 2012 10:23 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 09:57 Vei wrote:
qq i just died to a gp 1v1 top, why am i so aggressive lol GP shits on Croc pretty hard. Wait till you have to lane against Trynd -_-
I love laning vs Tyrn as Renek, I always shit on him :D Last time I laned vs a GP tho it came out even though..I need to play him more  Been playing new champ though I freaking LOVE her but I have been laning with her instead of jungling as I only jungle with Shy.
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If I have to see another Chronicle ad I'm going to have to hurt someone.
Feels like it's been only that one this past week.
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On January 19 2012 10:05 Hyren wrote:
I don't expect an apology from Riot for sabotaging the third party mac client, I just want them to acknowledge it. ACKNOWLEDGE I EXIST DAMNIT.
Wh... hum who said that?
...
Must have been the wind.
Now that I think about it Renek probably isn't as bad in lane as I gave him credit for, since he can slice to minions, and dice to enemy champions. His Ult is comparable to fiddles' ult in damage over the full 15 second duration. It's just that people usually focus fiddles no matter how tanky you build him, and they don't focus Renek. I honestly don't know why I don't see him more.
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Would anyone be interested in doing a 5-man off-build queue? Basically we would go into premade 5s (normals probably), and we play the off-builds of the champions we choose (Jungle Gragas, AD kennen, Support GP etc) and see if we can fare against a normal premade 5.
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Canada13410 Posts
I just played a game where the ashe on my team who bought no items all game and got 1 kill vs 21 deaths 0 assists. Is this a bot?
Also, on the other team was someone named ....
EZ as Deezer and they said EZ all game long O.O
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On January 19 2012 11:13 57 Corvette wrote:
Would anyone be interested in doing a 5-man off-build queue? Basically we would go into premade 5s (normals probably), and we play the off-builds of the champions we choose (Jungle Gragas, AD kennen, Support GP etc) and see if we can fare against a normal premade 5.
I'm in.
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On January 19 2012 11:13 57 Corvette wrote:
Would anyone be interested in doing a 5-man off-build queue? Basically we would go into premade 5s (normals probably), and we play the off-builds of the champions we choose (Jungle Gragas, AD kennen, Support GP etc) and see if we can fare against a normal premade 5.
o.o wait you dont do this in normal 5s already? I got good at jungle heimer
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On January 19 2012 11:13 57 Corvette wrote:
Would anyone be interested in doing a 5-man off-build queue? Basically we would go into premade 5s (normals probably), and we play the off-builds of the champions we choose (Jungle Gragas, AD kennen, Support GP etc) and see if we can fare against a normal premade 5.
Sign me up, I do this in most my normals. Got a sick AP and support Garen.
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EPT
