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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence.
I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization.
Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be.
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United States47024 Posts
Obviously the solution is for Riot to release an item that has a silence active.
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On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be.
There is an item, it's called Warmog's 
but I agree, I hate true damage too. Something like a Hexdrinker upgrade that could be activated for reduced damage from spells would be nice.
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On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be.
build more hp....
i don't get your point.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 25 2011 06:02 starfries wrote:
but I agree, I hate true damage too. Something like a Hexdrinker upgrade that could be activated for reduced damage from spells would be nice.
That wouldn't work against true damage. Pretty much all straight damage reductions have been fixed to not reduce true damage.
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On December 25 2011 06:04 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be. build more hp.... i don't get your point.
Building more health will help, yes, but it doesn't actually reduce the damage output. My "point" is just that it's an annoying and unnecessary mechanic to have. I just said it originally as an aside, I didn't have a point that I was looking to prove. People just jumped on it with silly arguments.
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On December 25 2011 06:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:02 starfries wrote:
but I agree, I hate true damage too. Something like a Hexdrinker upgrade that could be activated for reduced damage from spells would be nice. That wouldn't work against true damage. Pretty much all straight damage reductions have been fixed to not reduce true damage.
With how much true damage they're throwing around though, I kind of think it should be.
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They should remove it all as far as I'm concerned.
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On December 25 2011 06:12 NSANE.hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:04 Kaneh wrote:On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be. build more hp.... i don't get your point. Building more health will help, yes, but it doesn't actually reduce the damage output. My "point" is just that it's an annoying and unnecessary mechanic to have. I just said it originally as an aside, I didn't have a point that I was looking to prove. People just jumped on it with silly arguments.
because it's a silly statement. i don't get why reducing damage output is important. time to death is and has always been a much better way to compare. armor/mr is exactly the same thing as building a ton of hp. it's like saying just because autoattacks scale better cause of crit/AS that crit/AS are annoying and unessesary.
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On December 25 2011 06:12 NSANE.hydra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:04 Kaneh wrote:On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be. build more hp.... i don't get your point. Building more health will help, yes, but it doesn't actually reduce the damage output. My "point" is just that it's an annoying and unnecessary mechanic to have. I just said it originally as an aside, I didn't have a point that I was looking to prove. People just jumped on it with silly arguments.
The point of true damage is you can't reduce the damage it does. =.=
The only way to survive longer vs true damage is building health, or in an auto attacker's case, (i.e. vayne) randuins/FH.
Champs like ahri and cho are limited by CD's, so true damage isn't broken on them. Champs like vayne aren't, so you need an item like FH/randuins in the game to counter that to decrease their absurd damage output.
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my friend just got 3,600 rp randomly
how lucky
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On December 25 2011 06:27 UniversalSnip wrote:
my friend just got 3,600 rp randomly
how lucky
He doesn't need all the RP, tell him to send some to me.
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On December 25 2011 03:47 starfries wrote:
You can't "walk away really quickly" from Rammus. And unless you have hard CC you're going to get flash taunted. Rammus always had some of the best ganks out of any jungler, he was just overlooked a lot in favor of more fashionable junglers.
So fucking true >.> I find myself still dying to Rammus ganks, despite having ward in river-bush, and reacting in time,,,,,
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On December 25 2011 06:33 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 03:47 starfries wrote:
You can't "walk away really quickly" from Rammus. And unless you have hard CC you're going to get flash taunted. Rammus always had some of the best ganks out of any jungler, he was just overlooked a lot in favor of more fashionable junglers. So fucking true >.> I find myself still dying to Rammus ganks, despite having ward in river-bush, and reacting in time,,,,,
It isn't in time if you died to it.
Also, santa gragas very nice. Wish I got a free 3600 RP. o.O
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On December 25 2011 06:25 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:12 NSANE.hydra wrote:On December 25 2011 06:04 Kaneh wrote:On December 25 2011 05:56 NSANE.hydra wrote:On December 25 2011 04:55 Cirn9 wrote:On December 25 2011 02:28 NSANE.hydra wrote:
True damage is alright on autoattackers because there are items that lower attack speed. On casters it's dumb, unless Riot releases some item that reduces all surrounding enemy's CDR, or an item with an active silence or something. You know a mechanic is stupid if nothing can really counter it. They have this, its called silence. I'm talking about being able to itemize vs true damage, not conveniently having a spell that helps. Having a silence, stun, knock-up, fear or whatever is great, but having the kit to do well against a champion isn't the same as being able to protect yourself from it. You can itemize against Vayne's damage to some extent with a FH or Randuins, but there is no item for this with Cho's or Ahri's. I'm aware that both are spells and they have CDs, but so is every other spell and you can still reduce damage from those with proper itemization. Saying it's a skillshot or has a cooldown is not a counter-argument to saying you can't build to counter them. Which is all I'm trying to say. I'm not implying that they're overpowered or anything, just pointing out that it seems dumb to have something in the same that can't be countered, when everything else in the game can be. build more hp.... i don't get your point. Building more health will help, yes, but it doesn't actually reduce the damage output. My "point" is just that it's an annoying and unnecessary mechanic to have. I just said it originally as an aside, I didn't have a point that I was looking to prove. People just jumped on it with silly arguments. The point of true damage is you can't reduce the damage it does. =.= The only way to survive longer vs true damage is building health, or in an auto attacker's case, (i.e. vayne) randuins/FH. Champs like ahri and cho are limited by CD's, so true damage isn't broken on them. Champs like vayne aren't, so you need an item like FH/randuins in the game to counter that to decrease their absurd damage output.
With Vayne it's your single tanky teammate that buys FH/Randuins, and then the whole team benefits. With Cho/Ahri, each individual champion each has to buy health for the whole team to benefit. But that's not what I was trying to say, I don't care how you would play against them and I wasn't arguing about that. All I am saying is that irreducible damage is an unnecessary mechanic. I know the point of true damage is to be irreducible, but I don't see why it's a good idea for it to be in the game in the first place. That's all.
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On December 25 2011 06:34 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2011 06:33 wei2coolman wrote:On December 25 2011 03:47 starfries wrote:
You can't "walk away really quickly" from Rammus. And unless you have hard CC you're going to get flash taunted. Rammus always had some of the best ganks out of any jungler, he was just overlooked a lot in favor of more fashionable junglers. So fucking true >.> I find myself still dying to Rammus ganks, despite having ward in river-bush, and reacting in time,,,,, It isn't in time if you died to it. Also, santa gragas very nice. Wish I got a free 3600 RP. o.O
I have fairly good map awareness. It's usually cause I play aoe solotop, so I tend to push lanes. but a bush ward usually protects me from any ganks even if I'm pushed too far, with the exception of rammus,
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Means your ward isn't placed right or you react too slowly.
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Vs champs like noct or rammus you need to ward further down in the river. Otherwise you won't even see them in time to react correctly.
The whole "why should we have true damage" statement is retarded to me. Having different types of damage is perfectly fine. An alistar ults. Problem? NOPE, TRUE DAMAGE. Different types of damage can counter different things.
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On December 25 2011 07:11 BlackPaladin wrote:
Vs champs like noct or rammus you need to ward further down in the river. Otherwise you won't even see them in time to react correctly.
The whole "why should we have true damage" statement is retarded to me. Having different types of damage is perfectly fine. An alistar ults. Problem? NOPE, TRUE DAMAGE. Different types of damage can counter different things.
I'm pretty sure his ult did reduce true damage at a certain time XD
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I think you need two wards to be really safe if you're on blue side. On purple side if your mid warded your jungle entrance it's ok to just have one downriver.
If an Alistar ults then you just don't hit him until it expires. Having spammable true damage is a dumb concept imo. I'm fine with it on ignite and Cho but it seems like Riot is just tossing it on skills to try and make them seem different and original. If people are really hung up on "true damage must be irreducible" then just rename it to something else.
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EPT
