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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. ===== + Show Spoiler +If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.
- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name. - Neo 7:07 KST |
On December 14 2011 02:20 Deltablazy wrote:
IMO the only reason Riven hasn't been nerfed yet is because she's very luck and skill dependent. I lost many times to trynd/gp lucky early crits and got dominated for the rest of the laning phase. I a few times to Garens and Renektons because I made 1 mistake early on and was having a hard time for the rest of the game. But when I dont make mistakes, I usually go on legendary streaks. It takes time to learn Riven, and since free week Riven newbs failed to show her OP-ness, I'm not expecting a Riven nerf anytime soon.
I started playing her two days ago and usually don't play top lane (I play Irelia, Nasus, and occasionally Jarv/Udyr/Pantheon). Regardless of the game, whether I get out of laning phase 3-0 or 0-3 (due to their jungler camping top and my jungler taking the rest of the map), I will farm my BT sooner or later, and once I do I will be getting double or triple kills in team fights.
AT WORST, if you have no idea what's going on, you just sit there and farm creep in lane, then go win team fights with your BF sword. And I'm talking you have no freaking idea how to play the champion, constantly hit wrong keys etc. The only game I got crushed was a 2v1 lane (Olaf/GP) where my jungle never came the entire game. I've always felt that the only way to truly beat Riven in lane is to run a 2v1 lane against her.
I'm saying this not because I'm a good player (I'm only ~1500), but because I'm NOT a top player, nor do I play top lane, and I can pick up Riven and have better success on her than on my mains after 3-4 games.
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On December 14 2011 02:24 Requizen wrote:
Like you said, it's skill dependent. Same reason Xerath hasn't been nerfed yet, same reason Orianna nerfs took forever. Once the good players start stomping even harder with her, people will start to notice.
I kinda hope they wont ever.
The pro scene made Riot nerf Orianna to the ground while it's probably their best champion design sinces Beta. -_-
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On December 14 2011 02:34 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:24 Requizen wrote:
Like you said, it's skill dependent. Same reason Xerath hasn't been nerfed yet, same reason Orianna nerfs took forever. Once the good players start stomping even harder with her, people will start to notice. I kinda hope they wont ever. The pro scene made Riot nerf Orianna to the ground while it's probably their best champion design sinces Beta. -_-
Well, the problem with the Ori nerfs is that they went too far. Rather than leaving her competitive, they went JUST under. And when you have like 10 viable ap mids being the 11th best isnt gonna get a whole lot of play.
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Is there any link to the pictures of the new skins?
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On December 14 2011 02:34 Sandster wrote:
I started playing her two days ago and usually don't play top lane (I play Irelia, Nasus, and occasionally Jarv/Udyr/Pantheon). Regardless of the game, whether I get out of laning phase 3-0 or 0-3 (due to their jungler camping top and my jungler taking the rest of the map), I will farm my BT sooner or later, and once I do I will be getting double or triple kills in team fights.
AT WORST, if you have no idea what's going on, you just sit there and farm creep in lane, then go win team fights with your BF sword. And I'm talking you have no freaking idea how to play the champion, constantly hit wrong keys etc. The only game I got crushed was a 2v1 lane (Olaf/GP) where my jungle never came the entire game. I've always felt that the only way to truly beat Riven in lane is to run a 2v1 lane against her.
I'm saying this not because I'm a good player (I'm only ~1500), but because I'm NOT a top player, nor do I play top lane, and I can pick up Riven and have better success on her than on my mains after 3-4 games.
I'm pretty sure I have enough experience as Riven to not need your advice, but ok. My Riven stats are good enough to prove that I do know how to play her.
My point was not that you're going to be useless for the rest of the game but that you'll have a hard time until BT+GA. That's how I felt when I lost my lane, but that may also be the fact that my team doesn't know who to focus and I end up dying a lot because I go for the carries. I felt pretty useless with BT constantly resetting and lacking the damage.
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They didn't fix the single target spell red buff thing yet?
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riven also has more consistent mobility and is more single target focused
shyvana also needs to build tankier b/c of less reliable mobility and no low cd shield that scales with ad
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On December 14 2011 02:41 spinesheath wrote:
They didn't fix the single target spell red buff thing yet?
I thought that was an intentional change.
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly, Riot should have realized the problems with their approach to balance a long time ago.
No matter what happens, no matter what changes, there's always SOMEBODY that people are gonna call OP, and that people are going to want nerfed. Like, if you follow the string of AP carry nerfs, or jungler nerfs, or AD carry nerfs, etc., you'd see that we're just following a long chain of Riot just nerfing who was apparently the top dog at the time (and who really might not have been that out of line). At some point you realize that if they've sequentially nerfed like 10 different AP champs over the course of several months, shouldn't we question whether the balance was that off in the first place? Isn't it a reasonable possibility that all of those AP champs were balanced against one another (or close to it) before Riot stepped in to muddle with things?
Suppose we had pre-nerf Anivia, Annie, Brand, Karthus, Kass, Malz, Morg, Ori, TF, Swain, Vlad, etc. Would the balance really be that screwed up? And if not, why the months-long process of chain-nerfing them one after another?
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So what do folks think of the new runes? I can't tell if they're useful or not. The hybrid pen runes will probably be nice for hybrid champs, but the %hp runes seem really lacking compared to scaling HP.
It's also possible to show up to lane with 9% spellvamp, or 9% lifesteal, (or 12 if you open dblade). Could be interesting to play around with?
Also was there any announcement of when the dodge refund will go through? I still got all my dodge runes o.o;
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MANTHEON BUFFS, love it
my fav dominion hero jus got better
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On December 14 2011 02:41 Deltablazy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:34 Sandster wrote:
I started playing her two days ago and usually don't play top lane (I play Irelia, Nasus, and occasionally Jarv/Udyr/Pantheon). Regardless of the game, whether I get out of laning phase 3-0 or 0-3 (due to their jungler camping top and my jungler taking the rest of the map), I will farm my BT sooner or later, and once I do I will be getting double or triple kills in team fights.
AT WORST, if you have no idea what's going on, you just sit there and farm creep in lane, then go win team fights with your BF sword. And I'm talking you have no freaking idea how to play the champion, constantly hit wrong keys etc. The only game I got crushed was a 2v1 lane (Olaf/GP) where my jungle never came the entire game. I've always felt that the only way to truly beat Riven in lane is to run a 2v1 lane against her.
I'm saying this not because I'm a good player (I'm only ~1500), but because I'm NOT a top player, nor do I play top lane, and I can pick up Riven and have better success on her than on my mains after 3-4 games. I'm pretty sure I have enough experience as Riven to not need your advice, but ok. My Riven stats are good enough to prove that I do know how to play her. My point was not that you're going to be useless for the rest of the game but that you'll have a hard time until BT+GA. That's how I felt when I lost my lane, but that may also be the fact that my team doesn't know who to focus and I end up dying a lot because I go for the carries. I felt pretty useless with BT constantly resetting and lacking the damage.
My bad, the "you" was a generic you. I wasn't talking to you in particular. I'm just saying her power curve at all stages of the game are a bit nuts. My response was more saying that, while she's hard to play at the top level and for players completely new to the game, any average player can pick her up and do amazingly well.
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On December 14 2011 02:48 Haemonculus wrote:
So what do folks think of the new runes? I can't tell if they're useful or not. The hybrid pen runes will probably be nice for hybrid champs, but the %hp runes seem really lacking compared to scaling HP.
It's also possible to show up to lane with 9% spellvamp, or 9% lifesteal, (or 12 if you open dblade). Could be interesting to play around with?
Also was there any announcement of when the dodge refund will go through? I still got all my dodge runes o.o;
Enter lane as nasus with 35% lifesteal....
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On December 14 2011 02:41 TheKefka wrote:
Is there any link to the pictures of the new skins?
Taken from reddit.
http://imgur.com/a/nIJ6j
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How do you guys build Lux when playing as a support.
I've been going dring/philo/dring/boots/kage/dcap and upping to CD boots.
Just wondering what other people do, although nobody seems to play lux...
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Aw,I hopped that Maokai would be throwing little elves around with this new skin:<
Still pretty cool.
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On December 14 2011 02:58 sob3k wrote:
How do you guys build Lux when playing as a support.
I've been going dring/philo/dring/boots/kage/dcap and upping to CD boots.
Just wondering what other people do, although nobody seems to play lux...
Philo/kage/HoG 2 out of these 3, depends on wether I want AP or HP. CDR Boots and morello's evil tome because you won't be getting blue buff and lower cds are better when supporting compared to doing more damage.
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On December 14 2011 02:44 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, Riot should have realized the problems with their approach to balance a long time ago.
No matter what happens, no matter what changes, there's always SOMEBODY that people are gonna call OP, and that people are going to want nerfed. Like, if you follow the string of AP carry nerfs, or jungler nerfs, or AD carry nerfs, etc., you'd see that we're just following a long chain of Riot just nerfing who was apparently the top dog at the time (and who really might not have been that out of line). At some point you realize that if they've sequentially nerfed like 10 different AP champs over the course of several months, shouldn't we question whether the balance was that off in the first place? Isn't it a reasonable possibility that all of those AP champs were balanced against one another (or close to it) before Riot stepped in to muddle with things?
Suppose we had pre-nerf Anivia, Annie, Brand, Karthus, Kass, Malz, Morg, Ori, TF, Swain, Vlad, etc. Would the balance really be that screwed up? And if not, why the months-long process of chain-nerfing them one after another?
It's almost like patching every 2 weeks doesn't give a chance for the metagame to evolve so the real problems can be addressed! What a surprise!
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Anyone else feel like spell vamp quints are a bad idea? I mean kennen's hard enough to lane against once he gets his revolver, now he gets to enter lane with 6% spell vamp for infinite sustain at level 1.
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On December 14 2011 02:44 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, Riot should have realized the problems with their approach to balance a long time ago.
No matter what happens, no matter what changes, there's always SOMEBODY that people are gonna call OP, and that people are going to want nerfed. Like, if you follow the string of AP carry nerfs, or jungler nerfs, or AD carry nerfs, etc., you'd see that we're just following a long chain of Riot just nerfing who was apparently the top dog at the time (and who really might not have been that out of line). At some point you realize that if they've sequentially nerfed like 10 different AP champs over the course of several months, shouldn't we question whether the balance was that off in the first place? Isn't it a reasonable possibility that all of those AP champs were balanced against one another (or close to it) before Riot stepped in to muddle with things?
Suppose we had pre-nerf Anivia, Annie, Brand, Karthus, Kass, Malz, Morg, Ori, TF, Swain, Vlad, etc. Would the balance really be that screwed up? And if not, why the months-long process of chain-nerfing them one after another?
There's a catch-22 of sorts at play here. Riot can't really trust the playerbase to change the meta on its own because much of the playerbase is stupidly stubborn and unadaptable. Given a choice between whining about something and looking for a way to defeat it, a significant number of players (possibly a majority) will choose to whine. At the same time, players have no reason to try to change or adjust to the metagame themselves because Riot will intervene if players just sit on their hands and whine long enough.
I give Riot credit though, while they still nerfed Akali when she was FotM they took their time about it and nerfed Gunblade first. Similarly they took their time in buffing Skarner and did so very judiciously. While there are specific champions that get the butt end of most patch changes (Xin) I don't think Riot does a terrible job with their buffs and nerfs.
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EPT
