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[Patch 1.0.0.131: Ahri] General Discussion - Page 14

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Want to rage about your latest loss?
Use the QQ thread.
If you whine in GD, you'll get warned.

=====

+ Show Spoiler +
If your [Stream] thread was moved to the general TL Stream subforum (aka SC stream land), find your thread and PM it to me and I'll move it back to LoL territory. I can argue with staff that moving a non-SC thread into a SC subforum is just asking for that thread to get buried.

- Neo, Dec. 15 2011, 6:33 KST

I have admin approval. I'll be moving LoL streams back to the subforum. Stream name will be based on Summoner name.

- Neo 7:07 KST
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
December 13 2011 16:54 GMT
#261
Xin's problem is his early game. If he get's ahead he has that kind of great early even good mid game if he's ahead. However eventually past level 11 or so if he isn't still ahead he starts being less and less effective and if he's behind he's screwed. The best Xin games are the ones where they surrender or you win pre 25ish from what I've found. Because the longer the game goes on the more likely you going in after the main initiator(pray you are not the initiator) in a team fight the more likely you just die and kill no one or you are forced to flash out of the fight.

I've always seen Xin as the champion who if he isn't ahead he doesn't do well. Even going even tends to be a bad thing for him because of this power curve issue of his. How to fix it I am not sure because I am sure that just nerfing his damage early and scaling his abilities just wont' cut it or it'd of been done by now. *shrug*
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
December 13 2011 16:54 GMT
#262
On December 14 2011 01:44 Cixah wrote:
Is it me or is Viktor riot's answer for people wanting Evoker in this game? He sounds like he has MOST of evoker's abilities, but there's no way they are gunna give him Ghost Walk lol.


I always felt the biggest part about invoker is that you get to push 50 buttons to use one ability.

Just me though.
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 16:55:44
December 13 2011 16:55 GMT
#263
Rivens damage output right out the gate is fucking retarded and something ive noticed last few games. Real perma ban until nerf.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
December 13 2011 17:01 GMT
#264
On December 14 2011 01:55 Senx wrote:
Rivens damage output right out the gate is fucking retarded and something ive noticed last few games. Real perma ban until nerf.


She's become more known everyday.. don't tell others and start playing her. It's hilarious how many people will call you op the moment you firstblood them because they've no clue about Riven in general.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 13 2011 17:01 GMT
#265
Dat Toy skin makes me want a GP.

I've been putting off getting him. Is he fun? Is he good? I don't see him all that often outside Dominion.
It's your boy Guzma!
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 13 2011 17:02 GMT
#266
On December 14 2011 01:54 Parnage wrote:
Xin's problem is his early game. If he get's ahead he has that kind of great early even good mid game if he's ahead. However eventually past level 11 or so if he isn't still ahead he starts being less and less effective and if he's behind he's screwed. The best Xin games are the ones where they surrender or you win pre 25ish from what I've found. Because the longer the game goes on the more likely you going in after the main initiator(pray you are not the initiator) in a team fight the more likely you just die and kill no one or you are forced to flash out of the fight.

I've always seen Xin as the champion who if he isn't ahead he doesn't do well. Even going even tends to be a bad thing for him because of this power curve issue of his. How to fix it I am not sure because I am sure that just nerfing his damage early and scaling his abilities just wont' cut it or it'd of been done by now. *shrug*

He's like most assassins (other than Talon). Fed = unkillable. Not fed = meh.
It's your boy Guzma!
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
December 13 2011 17:03 GMT
#267
On December 14 2011 01:55 Senx wrote:
Rivens damage output right out the gate is fucking retarded and something ive noticed last few games. Real perma ban until nerf.

Shyvana's is even more ridiculous. But I don't see many Shyvanas top.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
December 13 2011 17:03 GMT
#268
Wait... what happened to Normal Draft Mode, and Dominion Draft Mode?
warscythes
Profile Joined December 2011
365 Posts
December 13 2011 17:05 GMT
#269
On December 14 2011 02:03 starfries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 01:55 Senx wrote:
Rivens damage output right out the gate is fucking retarded and something ive noticed last few games. Real perma ban until nerf.

Shyvana's is even more ridiculous. But I don't see many Shyvanas top.


Difference is that Riven has 12(+1) hp regen at lvl 1 and Shyvana has 7.2(+0.8).

Riven also scales harder, although Shyvana's late game is not bad, Riven is just a straight up monster late game.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
December 13 2011 17:06 GMT
#270
On December 14 2011 02:03 starfries wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 01:55 Senx wrote:
Rivens damage output right out the gate is fucking retarded and something ive noticed last few games. Real perma ban until nerf.

Shyvana's is even more ridiculous. But I don't see many Shyvanas top.


shyv has a pretty crazy dmg output, but she doesnt have cc of any kind. Imo, she's more like garen top, where you have to be a little bit clever to get all of your damage out on somebody. riven has an aoe stun and aoe pseudo-knockup, that pretty much force her dmg output on you whenever she feels like it.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
December 13 2011 17:18 GMT
#271
Wait why are my dodge runes still here?
Where's normal draft?

I'm so confused x.x
boomer hands
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
December 13 2011 17:18 GMT
#272
I dunno, I haven't seen Shyv ever win a top lane vs a competent player.

Are the 4 holiday skins datamined yet or are we still guessing based on the splash screen?
twitch.tv/cratonz
Deltablazy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada580 Posts
December 13 2011 17:20 GMT
#273
IMO the only reason Riven hasn't been nerfed yet is because she's very luck and skill dependent. I lost many times to trynd/gp lucky early crits and got dominated for the rest of the laning phase. I a few times to Garens and Renektons because I made 1 mistake early on and was having a hard time for the rest of the game. But when I dont make mistakes, I usually go on legendary streaks. It takes time to learn Riven, and since free week Riven newbs failed to show her OP-ness, I'm not expecting a Riven nerf anytime soon.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 13 2011 17:22 GMT
#274
On December 14 2011 02:02 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 01:54 Parnage wrote:
Xin's problem is his early game. If he get's ahead he has that kind of great early even good mid game if he's ahead. However eventually past level 11 or so if he isn't still ahead he starts being less and less effective and if he's behind he's screwed. The best Xin games are the ones where they surrender or you win pre 25ish from what I've found. Because the longer the game goes on the more likely you going in after the main initiator(pray you are not the initiator) in a team fight the more likely you just die and kill no one or you are forced to flash out of the fight.

I've always seen Xin as the champion who if he isn't ahead he doesn't do well. Even going even tends to be a bad thing for him because of this power curve issue of his. How to fix it I am not sure because I am sure that just nerfing his damage early and scaling his abilities just wont' cut it or it'd of been done by now. *shrug*

He's like most assassins (other than Talon). Fed = unkillable. Not fed = meh.

what? Xin has way less frontloaded burst with less scaling than your typical assassin and has horrid defensive tools and base damages compared to real tanky DPSers. honestly, I see no reason to ever play Xin. his kit begs to be played like Irelia/J4/Warwick/Riven, yet his numbers are sooooo shitty that I see no reason to every play him over any of them.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Lanzoma
Profile Joined February 2011
Mexico813 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 17:23:32
December 13 2011 17:23 GMT
#275
On December 14 2011 02:20 Deltablazy wrote:
IMO the only reason Riven hasn't been nerfed yet is because she's very luck and skill dependent. I lost many times to trynd/gp lucky early crits and got dominated for the rest of the laning phase. I a few times to Garens and Renektons because I made 1 mistake early on and was having a hard time for the rest of the game. But when I dont make mistakes, I usually go on legendary streaks. It takes time to learn Riven, and since free week Riven newbs failed to show her OP-ness, I'm not expecting a Riven nerf anytime soon.

Uh, what you described applies to nearly every top laner.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 13 2011 17:24 GMT
#276
Like you said, it's skill dependent. Same reason Xerath hasn't been nerfed yet, same reason Orianna nerfs took forever. Once the good players start stomping even harder with her, people will start to notice.
It's your boy Guzma!
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 13 2011 17:25 GMT
#277
On December 14 2011 02:22 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 02:02 Requizen wrote:
On December 14 2011 01:54 Parnage wrote:
Xin's problem is his early game. If he get's ahead he has that kind of great early even good mid game if he's ahead. However eventually past level 11 or so if he isn't still ahead he starts being less and less effective and if he's behind he's screwed. The best Xin games are the ones where they surrender or you win pre 25ish from what I've found. Because the longer the game goes on the more likely you going in after the main initiator(pray you are not the initiator) in a team fight the more likely you just die and kill no one or you are forced to flash out of the fight.

I've always seen Xin as the champion who if he isn't ahead he doesn't do well. Even going even tends to be a bad thing for him because of this power curve issue of his. How to fix it I am not sure because I am sure that just nerfing his damage early and scaling his abilities just wont' cut it or it'd of been done by now. *shrug*

He's like most assassins (other than Talon). Fed = unkillable. Not fed = meh.

what? Xin has way less frontloaded burst with less scaling than your typical assassin and has horrid defensive tools and base damages compared to real tanky DPSers. honestly, I see no reason to ever play Xin. his kit begs to be played like Irelia/J4/Warwick/Riven, yet his numbers are sooooo shitty that I see no reason to every play him over any of them.

Well yeah, I agree. But, if you do manage to get a handful of early kills, he can do well, like an Akali or whatever. Not as well, but similar idea is what I was saying.

He needs more of a buff than 10 armor/MR :/
It's your boy Guzma!
Deltablazy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada580 Posts
December 13 2011 17:28 GMT
#278
On December 14 2011 02:23 Lanzoma wrote:
Uh, what you described applies to nearly every top laner.

Tanky/sustain top laners have an easier time though.
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
December 13 2011 17:29 GMT
#279
On December 14 2011 01:26 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 01:14 spinesheath wrote:
On December 13 2011 21:37 Shiv. wrote:
Spine, you're sort of my go to guy when I'm unsure about support discussions. Your argumentations have always striked me as very well thought out based on experience at the same time.

What's your take on GP5 yellows? I'm only playing Soraka and Sona as of now, and I run Armor red and yellows, AP/lvl blues (will change them for flat AP or MR I guess) and GP5 quints. I currently build Philo as my only GP5 and go for a relatively fast Shurelya's with it. I like playing aggressively on both of them and while some people argue that's not the way to go, I feel like it is because Soraka wins trades due to silence, Sona because of her raw early game DPS and HPS, making the trade worthwhile. Anyway, not the point of the post.

What I was trying to put across: I love both warding a whole freaking lot and aggression. Masteries, Avarice Quints AND Avarice yellows set me up with 7,5 additional GP5, which sounds pretty good. On the other hand, I trade 13 armor for just 2,5 GP5, which makes trading in lane a lot harder.

TL;DR:
Not sure if they are good for someone who just started support and likes warding a lot lot lot, but also tries to force engagements relatively early on.


On Soraka: possible if you play passively (which is sometimes a good idea, but NOT always).
On Sona: Wouldn't even try it once.

I also don't recommend gold/10 quints or deep utility spec on Sona. Combat strength is the way to go.

Thanks for the reply.
What quints do you run on Sona? Fortitude?

Depends on the lane. Anything that helps me win the lane.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 17:32:48
December 13 2011 17:31 GMT
#280
On December 14 2011 01:44 Cixah wrote:
Is it me or is Viktor riot's answer for people wanting Evoker in this game? He sounds like he has MOST of evoker's abilities, but there's no way they are gunna give him Ghost Walk lol.

How can a champ with 4 abilities have "most" of the abilities of a hero with 10 abilities?

That doesn't work at all, lol.

EDIT: Not to mention, I'm not seeing where you're drawing the parallels between Invoker's skills and Viktor's. You're going to have to enlighten me on which skills you think are what.
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