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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
United States37500 Posts
On December 03 2011 01:52 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:43 Shifft wrote:On December 03 2011 01:39 Sandster wrote:On December 03 2011 01:25 daemir wrote:On December 03 2011 01:22 Sandster wrote:On December 03 2011 01:12 DrKlingmann wrote:On December 03 2011 00:40 Sandster wrote:
I'm not against the idea of a highlighted streamer, but Riot absolutely should not be doing it.
I mean seriously - first a spotlight to draw people's attention, then ANOTHER announcement saying "He's streaming now come look!"?? I have nothing against Shushei - I think he's a good player and has a very helpful stream - but Riot should not be handing him money like that. Can you imagine if Blizzard picks a SC2 streamer and publishes it on their website, or if the NBA hands a check to what they decide to be a "helpful" player?
Saying other streamers will be featured does not help. The first featured streamer will generate much more buzz and attention than subsequent ones.
Riot has always been micromanaging everything related to their game, but they seriously need to stop picking favorites like this. It's extremely biased and subjective (why were Salce and TreeEskimo not picked? they are very manner and have helpful streams). If Riot wants to promote good behavior on streams, this is not the way to do it. Well.. and I disagree.. there you have it. Now who is right about what RIOT should and what RIOT shouldn't do? :-P And I have to say your last sentence is completely false. In my opinion if RIOT wants to promote good behavior it's exactly the way to do it. I don't mean it's not effective; I mean it's not really appropriate. Riot is the creator of the game and should be as impartial as possible to individual players, because otherwise it's unequal treatment for its player base. If you don't agree with this then...well, we just have different perspectives. I listed Salce and Tree as two players that not many people talk about as streamers, but meet the criteria just as well as Shusei (and I think Salce has about the same average viewers). Why was Shusei selected and not one of the countless skilled, mannered, and well known players? Because Shushei and his team won season 1, and with season 2 just started and the huge prize pool announced, it makes sense to use someone who you can easily link to recent events? Advertisement both ways. And in any case, someone has to be the first to get featured and if it was someone else then we'd ask why not shushei >_> In LoL terms, that's some results backing and then you'd have to ask "well wth you have to do to get featured if even shushei didn't make it" My point is NO ONE should be featured by Riot. There is no one person more deserving than Riot's countless other loyal customers. There definitely are some people more deserving than others. Not sure what your problem is...all they did is put a link to a great player's stream on their website. If other great players want to be featured I'm sure they can contact Riot and find out the criteria for being chosen and work on improving their own streams. If part of that criteria is not to be a rager that swears constantly then that's completely Riot's prerogative. There are some players who are definitely more deserving than others, but there isn't a *single* streamer who is heads and toes above everyone else. I've listed a few, and others have as well. What Riot did here doesn't personally affect me, but it affects the livelihoods of all the players who rely on streaming. Having Shusei featured is a huge slap in the face for pretty much everyone else, especially those who DO have quality streams but not HSGG-level viewers. "All they did is put a link" which in effect gave him thousands of dollars in ONE DAY (and plenty more to follow, due to the new advertisement). There is no better way to get advertised than Riot's front page, and every single streamer would jump at the opportunity to have been the first one featured. Riot has featured event coverages before, which is great because it draws attention to all the teams involved (and if you're not in the tournament, well, you weren't good enough to qualify). But this is literally singling out a single person and putting all the attention on him (and his revenue generator).
Affects the livelihood of players who rely on streaming? Really? That's the basis of your argument?
afaik, there's no LoL player who come out like Destiny and actually claims that they are streaming to feed their family and whatnot. Pretty much all the LoL streamers are guys who play LoL for fun, some take it more seriously than others. You can be jealous that Shushei gets free publicity thanks to Riot but step out for a second and think about why Riot picked Shushei and not you (you being the pro LoL player, not Sandster here).
I think you're exaggerating way too much to say this move is a slap to anyone's face...
Want to get spotlighted so you can make more monies? Go email Riot, ffs. This is not going to be a one time event.
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People just like to complain about everything that riot does. I'm happy for Shushei though, never watched his stream but from what I've heard he deserves it ^_^
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On December 03 2011 01:54 Two_DoWn wrote:
Right now HSGG is at 7k, and sushei is at 18k. TRY to tell me that this policy isnt negatively affecting other streamers.
I checked the stream numbers 10 mins ago and Hotshot had 2k viewers at the time. So he still managed to pull in 7k viewers couple of minutes after starting to stream.
Now, if you have x number of Hotshot viewers that watched Shushei and decided Shushei was better to watch, Riot just provided those x league of legends players a better service by exposing them to other streams.
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On December 03 2011 02:02 dottycakes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:54 Two_DoWn wrote:
Right now HSGG is at 7k, and sushei is at 18k. TRY to tell me that this policy isnt negatively affecting other streamers. I checked the stream numbers 10 mins ago and Hotshot had 2k viewers at the time. So he still managed to pull in 7k viewers couple of minutes after starting to stream. Now, if you have x number of Hotshot viewers that watched Shushei and decided Shushei was better to watch, Riot just provided those x league of legends players a better service by exposing them to other streams.
Exactly.No one is forced to watch anyone and if people decide Shushei is the better choice for them to watch than Riot helped them to have a better viewing experience.
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United States37500 Posts
trolol... HSGG has got the be the worst example you can give of this policy negatively affecting other streams. HotShot is the king of streaming, if he loses some viewers for a day, boohoo?
Maybe he can manner up and ask Riot to spotlight him next month, zz.
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On December 03 2011 01:58 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:47 Miiike wrote:
The only rough part about featuring streamers is the money aspect of it. Riot is basically handing cash to Shushei right now for something he'd be doing anyway. Outside of that, I wonder what percentage of LoL players are the type to go out and learn that streams exist on their own? I've often wondered that about SC2, as well -- what percentage of the playerbase doesn't read sites like TL.net? I've personally met many people who tell me they play Starcraft but have no idea about the community.
That being said, every LoL noobie who just plays and goes to the league website every once in a while that starts watching streams due to this feature = more hardcore fans for Riot (presumedly). More hardcore fans = more ESPORTS legitimacy = nothing but good things for Riot. By the very act of streaming, you're getting money for something you'd be doing anyway (playing LoL). I don't know why people have a huge problem with the fact sometimes people get lucky and get free publicity. It happens in the entertainment industry all the time - someone famous plugs an artist they like and suddenly more people buy their albums.
In my original post I said I really support the idea of featured players, but it shouldn't be done by Riot. But I don't think Riot realized how much money was at stake here for streamers.
This isn't publicity because of luck; it's from the freaking creator and distributor of the game. What if your record company does some magic voodoo shuffle and decides one of the company's artists/albums should be handled differently than others?
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On December 02 2011 20:39 Hynda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 20:15 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 02 2011 18:51 Treadmill wrote:On December 02 2011 18:42 r.Evo wrote:On December 02 2011 17:54 Seuss wrote:On December 02 2011 16:07 LoCicero wrote:
I turned on rain man's stream and heard "fuck," "dude," and "bro" about 30 times in two minutes and turned it off. How does he have 5k viewers? How do people watch that? Honestly I feel like a big reason I stopped playing recently is because I'm just fed up with the top elo scene. So many of the well known players are shitty fucking examples of how to compose yourself when you play this game it makes me disgusted. I really thought when I started streaming that I could get a significant number of viewers simply by not being a fucking douche, but I'm so disillusioned right now that I can't even bring myself to stream or play. What an embarrassment. You should find those other diamonds in the rough, the players who are good but not ragers/egotists, and make a serious team based around that. This times 100. To be completely honest, your stream is the single and only one that's setting an example in terms of skill, behaviour and personality in this game. Please go ahead and try to find some NA people who feel similar about your stream and build a team around that. I'm pretty damn sure there are those people in the 1700/1800 elo range and above who are like that. (And I'm a total believer that if you get it going they don't need to be much higher since you'll be able to push them over the edge.) fighting~!! I think there are a couple other streamers that are pretty mannered. Chaox, Salce, Doublelift, a couple others. Yeah the community isn't great but there are a decent number of more mannered players out there. jiji is very mannered, bob is of course mannered, there are more. I am inclined not to care if streamers rage as long as they A) display a lot of skill and B) have a strong personality. Why do people love to hate on grackis rage but the reaction to hotshot rage is very mild? It's because grackis doesn't display the same level of skill most of the top streamers do, and because his rage is boring, it's the same every game and very trite and unimaginative. You probably know 18 people who would rage exactly like him. Rainman really puts himself out there, he's a great performer and his style is unique to himself. Loci thought he could get a lot of viewers by not being a douche, well, he's wrong, being a douche doesn't hurt or help. It's like saying you're going to become a popular lol streamer by having excellent taste in wine. If loci wants more viewers he should've taken theatre classes. Be extroverted, do you have any idea how hard it is to watch loci's stream and feel as he feels? The most popular streamers, you watch them and it's so much easier to feel the agony of defeat and triumph of... triumph and so on. Actually you get viewers by being on CLG/TSM. Lift had 300 viewers then he joined CLG and got 3k-
There's been times where doublelift had a fuckton of viewers when he was still on crs, I remember him playing talon one game with like 9k viewers or something. The only reason being on clg/tsm gets you viewers is because you're known more easily, being featured on sites like solomid.net will also get you a fuckton of viewers without even being on any team.
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How is anyone upset about Riot giving more exposure to the competitive scene? More people watching high level streams is good for everyone. Higher interest means more money in the competitive scene. The fact that Riot put in the link just shows that they are genuinely interested in growing the scene, which is fantastic. I don't think anyone would be complaining if blizzard put in links to deserving and dedicated streamers :p
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On December 03 2011 02:06 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 01:58 starfries wrote:On December 03 2011 01:47 Miiike wrote:
The only rough part about featuring streamers is the money aspect of it. Riot is basically handing cash to Shushei right now for something he'd be doing anyway. Outside of that, I wonder what percentage of LoL players are the type to go out and learn that streams exist on their own? I've often wondered that about SC2, as well -- what percentage of the playerbase doesn't read sites like TL.net? I've personally met many people who tell me they play Starcraft but have no idea about the community.
That being said, every LoL noobie who just plays and goes to the league website every once in a while that starts watching streams due to this feature = more hardcore fans for Riot (presumedly). More hardcore fans = more ESPORTS legitimacy = nothing but good things for Riot. By the very act of streaming, you're getting money for something you'd be doing anyway (playing LoL). I don't know why people have a huge problem with the fact sometimes people get lucky and get free publicity. It happens in the entertainment industry all the time - someone famous plugs an artist they like and suddenly more people buy their albums. In my original post I said I really support the idea of featured players, but it shouldn't be done by Riot. But I don't think Riot realized how much money was at stake here for streamers. This isn't publicity because of luck; it's from the freaking creator and distributor of the game. What if your record company does some magic voodoo shuffle and decides one of the company's artists/albums should be handled differently than others?
It's more like the record company decided to advertise one of their artists on their main page. If I go to the website for Columbia Records, what do I see on the front page? Oh, a giant picture of Adele. It's not some magic voodoo shuffle.
Also, do you really expect Riot to make every decision based on whether or not it will make certain streamers less money? More exposure for the streaming scene is good for everyone. If people switch from one stream to another because they're now aware of it, surprise, maybe that stream is better.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 03 2011 02:12 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2011 02:06 Sandster wrote:On December 03 2011 01:58 starfries wrote:On December 03 2011 01:47 Miiike wrote:
The only rough part about featuring streamers is the money aspect of it. Riot is basically handing cash to Shushei right now for something he'd be doing anyway. Outside of that, I wonder what percentage of LoL players are the type to go out and learn that streams exist on their own? I've often wondered that about SC2, as well -- what percentage of the playerbase doesn't read sites like TL.net? I've personally met many people who tell me they play Starcraft but have no idea about the community.
That being said, every LoL noobie who just plays and goes to the league website every once in a while that starts watching streams due to this feature = more hardcore fans for Riot (presumedly). More hardcore fans = more ESPORTS legitimacy = nothing but good things for Riot. By the very act of streaming, you're getting money for something you'd be doing anyway (playing LoL). I don't know why people have a huge problem with the fact sometimes people get lucky and get free publicity. It happens in the entertainment industry all the time - someone famous plugs an artist they like and suddenly more people buy their albums. In my original post I said I really support the idea of featured players, but it shouldn't be done by Riot. But I don't think Riot realized how much money was at stake here for streamers. This isn't publicity because of luck; it's from the freaking creator and distributor of the game. What if your record company does some magic voodoo shuffle and decides one of the company's artists/albums should be handled differently than others? It's more like the record company decided to advertise one of their artists on their main page. If I go to the website for Columbia Records, what do I see on the front page? Oh, a giant picture of Adele. It's not some magic voodoo shuffle.
I was going to write something analogous to this but you beat me to it.
If Columbia Records wants to use one of their artists as a form of advertisement, that artist needs certain criteria. A good public image, popular, wholesome, etc. This is how it is for any personal relations move. Shushei is a model high elo player. So he lucked out and got spotlighted first. If someone like LoCi (for example), who isn't fortunate enough to get high viewership numbers but has the same criteria met as Shushei, LoCi can ask Riot for a shot.
Is anyone going to be surprised at all if Riot doesn't ever put saint on a spotlight? zzz
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I don't understand what you mean saint is like the perfect rolemodel for people playing this game.
See him pushing without any vision past the first turret"I'm fucking Mordekaiser I don't give a shit"
Saint playing morde is one of the most hilarious things you could've seen on a stream.
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On December 03 2011 02:19 JackDino wrote:
I don't understand what you mean saint is like the perfect rolemodel for people playing this game.
See him pushing without any vision past the first turret"I'm fucking Mordekaiser I don't give a shit"
Actually its more like: "im a fucking DRAGON"
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Adele is featured on the front page because she's popular.
What Riot did is create exposure for a less popular streamer. So keeping the analogy, it's like Columbia deciding one of their less popular artists should get a huge pub stunt (over the other less popular artists). Adele probably wouldn't care too much about this, but every other average Joe would get pretty pissed.
Anyway, it's just a difference in how we view things. Some people are ok that some animals are more equal than others. That's fine - I'm just sad Riot shares that belief.
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I've only posted in one GD thread ever, but I managed to convince a guy that he's not in ELO hell. Unfortunately, now he is convinced that everyone else at his ELO is way too high.
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Sushei wasn't really a less popular streamer lol he was one of the more popular streamers.
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On December 03 2011 02:34 JackDino wrote:
Sushei wasn't really a less popular streamer lol he was one of the more popular streamers.
Yeah he always has a few thousand when I look at least.
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Yeah man, companies have never endorsed "role models" before. Nope. Never. It's an OUTRAGE!!
All companies do endorse people who curse and drink though, obviously. They're the role models we all want here in 'merica.
Jesus christ, this discussions is retarded.
Saints funny cause he makes the most hilarious jokes and analogies, drinks, and makes said jokes and analogies even funnier. He's also a really good player and can make a funny atmosphere. Not everyone likes that though (different senses of humor). Some people will rather watch someone more chill, like jiji, shushei, loci, bob, etc. In the end the exposure only basically highlights other good streamers that you know will have a decent personality (for the time being, unless Riot gives in and highlights someone like hotshot). You can CHOOSE to watch that if you want, or you can watch someone like saint who has the mouth of a sailor but generally cracks a lot of jokes. What's so bad if LoCi got endorsed by Riot because he's a model streamer?
WOULD ANY OF YOU BE BITCHING LIKE A 5 YEAR OLD KID WHO DIDN'T GET HIS CANDY IF THEY ENDORSED LOCI OVER SHUSHEI?
Like holy shit. I bet you would be congratulating him if he did.
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Lol manner Hotshot buying RP to support riot.
All that needs to happen now is SV showing up on the stream with a glass of water and than we will know the apocalypse is near.
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On December 03 2011 02:55 TheKefka wrote:
Lol manner Hotshot buying RP to support riot.
All that needs to happen now is SV showing up on the stream with a glass of water and the we know the apocalypse is near.
No I'm drinking water. Look it's water looks just like water I don't give a shit it's fucking water.
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On December 02 2011 18:51 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2011 18:42 r.Evo wrote:On December 02 2011 17:54 Seuss wrote:On December 02 2011 16:07 LoCicero wrote:
I turned on rain man's stream and heard "fuck," "dude," and "bro" about 30 times in two minutes and turned it off. How does he have 5k viewers? How do people watch that? Honestly I feel like a big reason I stopped playing recently is because I'm just fed up with the top elo scene. So many of the well known players are shitty fucking examples of how to compose yourself when you play this game it makes me disgusted. I really thought when I started streaming that I could get a significant number of viewers simply by not being a fucking douche, but I'm so disillusioned right now that I can't even bring myself to stream or play. What an embarrassment. You should find those other diamonds in the rough, the players who are good but not ragers/egotists, and make a serious team based around that. This times 100. To be completely honest, your stream is the single and only one that's setting an example in terms of skill, behaviour and personality in this game. Please go ahead and try to find some NA people who feel similar about your stream and build a team around that. I'm pretty damn sure there are those people in the 1700/1800 elo range and above who are like that. (And I'm a total believer that if you get it going they don't need to be much higher since you'll be able to push them over the edge.) fighting~!! I think there are a couple other streamers that are pretty mannered. Chaox, Salce, Doublelift, a couple others. Yeah the community isn't great but there are a decent number of more mannered players out there. @LoCi - this may be out of line but I'd enjoy your stream more if you didn't persistently use 'gay' as a perjorative. Nobody's perfect.
That is totally fair. Unfortunately it's become part of my vernacular (which isn't something I'm happy about) so it's hard to stop saying it. It's not out of line at all, thank you for the feedback.
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EPT
