|
Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On December 01 2011 00:54 spinesheath wrote:
It seems that people like to respond to my posts with posts that are not responses to my posts. I did feel it was relevant to your last point. IE If you rewamp something why the hell making it less accsesible and go "LOOK THESE ARE THE ONLY 2 HEROES YOU WILL EVER JUNGLE WITH OK?" cause they are the only ones that fit the bill.
I gues what I'm saying is that if you are going to destroy the core of something, you better make sure the heroes follows. I would have been happy with the gold change only, that would have been a great change, that would make counterjungling worth it, but with the ridiculous spawntimers as it is now, it feels like a massive waste of time and it just slows you down in your own farm.
|
On November 30 2011 19:24 TheKefka wrote:
I got even a better point,when did you see the last time Riot decided to hotfix a major patch a DAY later after so much whining. as a side note, remember veigar's 5second stun? looooool
|
United States47024 Posts
Honestly, if people feel this shitty about the new jungle, even for solo queue play, it's going to be catastrophic for arranged/tournament play.
Bear in mind that one of the PREMISES of the jungle remake was "a jungler should have to gank successfully to keep up, but should be able to farm if he needs to catch up". "A jungler should have to gank successfully to keep up"? That premise only makes ANY ounce of sense in solo queue, where ganks reliably turn into kills. In tournament play, where you can see games where FB doesn't happen till 15 minutes, that premise falls apart. If a jungler has to get a kill from a gank to get enough farm to stay in the game, then that means in tournament play, the jungler is pretty much resigned to being underfarmed and underleveled.
|
On December 01 2011 01:01 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, if people feel this shitty about the new jungle, even for solo queue play, it's going to be catastrophic for arranged/tournament play.
Bear in mind that one of the PREMISES of the jungle remake was "a jungler should have to gank successfully to keep up, but should be able to farm if he needs to catch up". "A jungler should have to gank successfully to keep up"? That premise only makes ANY ounce of sense in solo queue, where ganks reliably turn into kills. In tournament play, where you can see games where FB doesn't happen till 15 minutes, that premise falls apart. If a jungler has to get a kill from a gank to get enough farm to stay in the game, then that means in tournament play, the jungler is pretty much resigned to being underfarmed and underleveled.
As long as flash is in the game that premise is horseshit. You can eat your cake and have it. Even in solo queue there are plenty of games that isn't very kill intensive and the junglers just fall behind further and further.
|
On December 01 2011 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:40 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:36 DoXa wrote:On November 30 2011 23:48 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2011 18:09 wussleeQ wrote:wow. rofl. it didn't take long for them to say we fucked up Seriously? They're changing it already? How bush-league is Riot? It's like they don't even test major gameplay overhauls before implementing them. why do some people have to be so negative? they are doing this one day after the patch was applied, which is really fast. be happy that they are listening to the community, which is pretty rare in other games. They are also hiring Gametester, they are probably just understaffed. The problem is that it was implemented at all. How can they not have good enough testers. it took everyone about 2 matches to figure out that the new jungle sucked balls, and it was unison. There isn't 2 camps in this pretty much the entire community hated the changes. If the jungle is supposed to be like this I'm just going to drop it. There are like 3 viable junglers now. Riots mentally has always been that they punch someone in the face and then apologise really fast so that people can say "Oh, look how nice he is, he apologise for his bad behaviour" instead of just not running around punching people.And to add to this NOBODY was complaining about the jungle. They are changing something that was close to perfect into something that sucks major balls. and yes, I am almost exclusivly jungling these days, but unless this gets changed I am just going to drop it, that's how bad the change is. From my favourite role to "I rather play support" This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. They are not hurting people. They are changing the way the game is working. I don't believe they have malicious intent. High sustain champs have been a huge issue this year, especially top lane. These are often champions that are also very good in the jungle. By reducing how much sustain is necessary in the jungle, I believe they can start hitting the high sustain champs and make the game more dynamic. Top lane is pretty much just a farm fest after a while, which is pretty boring, imo. Sure, it's fun to come into the team fights after 20 minutes of afk farm to hit people hard. The issue is that it requires 20 minutes of afk farming. Now, this is coming from someone who mains AP mid, and dabbles elsewhere. I'm by no means a good jungler, but this is just my viewpoint. If I'm wrong, I have no problem being corrected, but I don't think it's necessary to go off on RIOT for messing around with game mechanics.
first off i don't understand how changing jungle would effect top lane at all. if anything it gives an advantage to farm-fest heroes as they are less worried about red-buff-rape and junglers can't keep up.
secondly, i think right now top lane is the single most dynamic lane in the game. you can count on one hand the top viable picks in mid, support, and carry. jungling you might need two hands. but at top literally it's anybody's game and based heavily on matchups. really don't think that TOP is the lane that needs to become more dynamic.
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:03 Hynda wrote:
As long as flash is in the game that premise is horseshit. You can eat your cake and have it. Even in solo queue there are plenty of games that isn't very kill intensive and the junglers just fall behind further and further.
This is really one of my biggest concerns with the jungle remake, TBH. They can tool with the numbers all they want, but if the whole remake itself is grounded on an idea that is fundamentally flawed (that a jungler can get gold reliably by "ganking successfully"), then I don't see any way how this can end well.
A gank is a deliberate choice by the jungler to set himself behind in order to put one of his lanes ahead. Sometimes they get a kill, and he comes out ahead, but in average case, the jungler gets nothing out of a gank.
|
On December 01 2011 01:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:03 Hynda wrote:
As long as flash is in the game that premise is horseshit. You can eat your cake and have it. Even in solo queue there are plenty of games that isn't very kill intensive and the junglers just fall behind further and further. This is really one of my biggest concerns with the jungle remake, TBH. They can tool with the numbers all they want, but if the whole remake itself is grounded on an idea that is fundamentally flawed (that a jungler can get gold reliably by "ganking successfully"), then I don't see any way how this can end well.
For me there was only one change that was needed at all and that was moving gold from the smaller creeps to the larger ones (keeping the total the same) to encourage counter jungling.
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:09 Hynda wrote:
For me there was only one change that was needed at all and that was moving gold from the smaller creeps to the larger ones (keeping the total the same) to encourage counter jungling.
Mentioned this before, but with the old jungle, it was still usually beneficial to clear the entire camp than just taking a big minion, because the knowledge and control over when the camp spawns is worth more than leaving small minions to delay the spawn time (but not knowing when the spawn time was). Even if you shifted XP into the big wraith/big wolf, I'm pretty sure that would remain the case with 100 second spawn times.
|
On December 01 2011 00:56 Hynda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:54 spinesheath wrote:
It seems that people like to respond to my posts with posts that are not responses to my posts. I did feel it was relevant to your last point. IE If you rewamp something why the hell making it less accsesible and go "LOOK THESE ARE THE ONLY 2 HEROES YOU WILL EVER JUNGLE WITH OK?" cause they are the only ones that fit the bill. I gues what I'm saying is that if you are going to destroy the core of something, you better make sure the heroes follows. I would have been happy with the gold change only, that would have been a great change, that would make counterjungling worth it, but with the ridiculous spawntimers as it is now, it feels like a massive waste of time and it just slows you down in your own farm.
My last point was "don't stick to something you are used to just because you're used to it when you're trying to remake the whole thing". Maybe buffed minigols would be good, maybe not. But buffing them based on a thought process based on the old way the jungle worked is definitely the wrong approach.
Riot can't actually remake the jungle and test it internally well enough that it actually turns out satisfying soon after release. They don't have players skilled enough for that. They don't even have the time to test and develop a new metagame internally.
Maybe they should have said that this is going to be a huge mess for at least the next couple of weeks before they released the changes. But nobody should have expected anything else.
|
On December 01 2011 01:06 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 01 2011 00:40 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:36 DoXa wrote:On November 30 2011 23:48 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2011 18:09 wussleeQ wrote:wow. rofl. it didn't take long for them to say we fucked up Seriously? They're changing it already? How bush-league is Riot? It's like they don't even test major gameplay overhauls before implementing them. why do some people have to be so negative? they are doing this one day after the patch was applied, which is really fast. be happy that they are listening to the community, which is pretty rare in other games. They are also hiring Gametester, they are probably just understaffed. The problem is that it was implemented at all. How can they not have good enough testers. it took everyone about 2 matches to figure out that the new jungle sucked balls, and it was unison. There isn't 2 camps in this pretty much the entire community hated the changes. If the jungle is supposed to be like this I'm just going to drop it. There are like 3 viable junglers now. Riots mentally has always been that they punch someone in the face and then apologise really fast so that people can say "Oh, look how nice he is, he apologise for his bad behaviour" instead of just not running around punching people.And to add to this NOBODY was complaining about the jungle. They are changing something that was close to perfect into something that sucks major balls. and yes, I am almost exclusivly jungling these days, but unless this gets changed I am just going to drop it, that's how bad the change is. From my favourite role to "I rather play support" This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. They are not hurting people. They are changing the way the game is working. I don't believe they have malicious intent. High sustain champs have been a huge issue this year, especially top lane. These are often champions that are also very good in the jungle. By reducing how much sustain is necessary in the jungle, I believe they can start hitting the high sustain champs and make the game more dynamic. Top lane is pretty much just a farm fest after a while, which is pretty boring, imo. Sure, it's fun to come into the team fights after 20 minutes of afk farm to hit people hard. The issue is that it requires 20 minutes of afk farming. Now, this is coming from someone who mains AP mid, and dabbles elsewhere. I'm by no means a good jungler, but this is just my viewpoint. If I'm wrong, I have no problem being corrected, but I don't think it's necessary to go off on RIOT for messing around with game mechanics. first off i don't understand how changing jungle would effect top lane at all. if anything it gives an advantage to farm-fest heroes as they are less worried about red-buff-rape and junglers can't keep up. secondly, i think right now top lane is the single most dynamic lane in the game. you can count on one hand the top viable picks in mid, support, and carry. jungling you might need two hands. but at top literally it's anybody's game and based heavily on matchups. really don't think that TOP is the lane that needs to become more dynamic.
The point is that a lot of champions have imba sustain because it's necessary for them to jungle. Nerfing the jungle creeps and adding sigils makes sustain less of an issue, allowing a wider variety of junglers and allowing you to nerf ridiculous sustain on champ kits, health pots, and lifesteal in general. Heck the only reason they BUFFED Nasus' passive awhile ago was because they wanted him to jungle better.
That said they changed a whole lot more than just jungle creep damage in the revamp and have not changed sustain beyond health potions.
|
On December 01 2011 01:06 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 01 2011 00:40 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:36 DoXa wrote:On November 30 2011 23:48 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2011 18:09 wussleeQ wrote:wow. rofl. it didn't take long for them to say we fucked up Seriously? They're changing it already? How bush-league is Riot? It's like they don't even test major gameplay overhauls before implementing them. why do some people have to be so negative? they are doing this one day after the patch was applied, which is really fast. be happy that they are listening to the community, which is pretty rare in other games. They are also hiring Gametester, they are probably just understaffed. The problem is that it was implemented at all. How can they not have good enough testers. it took everyone about 2 matches to figure out that the new jungle sucked balls, and it was unison. There isn't 2 camps in this pretty much the entire community hated the changes. If the jungle is supposed to be like this I'm just going to drop it. There are like 3 viable junglers now. Riots mentally has always been that they punch someone in the face and then apologise really fast so that people can say "Oh, look how nice he is, he apologise for his bad behaviour" instead of just not running around punching people.And to add to this NOBODY was complaining about the jungle. They are changing something that was close to perfect into something that sucks major balls. and yes, I am almost exclusivly jungling these days, but unless this gets changed I am just going to drop it, that's how bad the change is. From my favourite role to "I rather play support" This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. They are not hurting people. They are changing the way the game is working. I don't believe they have malicious intent. High sustain champs have been a huge issue this year, especially top lane. These are often champions that are also very good in the jungle. By reducing how much sustain is necessary in the jungle, I believe they can start hitting the high sustain champs and make the game more dynamic. Top lane is pretty much just a farm fest after a while, which is pretty boring, imo. Sure, it's fun to come into the team fights after 20 minutes of afk farm to hit people hard. The issue is that it requires 20 minutes of afk farming. Now, this is coming from someone who mains AP mid, and dabbles elsewhere. I'm by no means a good jungler, but this is just my viewpoint. If I'm wrong, I have no problem being corrected, but I don't think it's necessary to go off on RIOT for messing around with game mechanics. first off i don't understand how changing jungle would effect top lane at all. if anything it gives an advantage to farm-fest heroes as they are less worried about red-buff-rape and junglers can't keep up. secondly, i think right now top lane is the single most dynamic lane in the game. you can count on one hand the top viable picks in mid, support, and carry. jungling you might need two hands. but at top literally it's anybody's game and based heavily on matchups. really don't think that TOP is the lane that needs to become more dynamic.
i think the idea was that most high-sustain junglers ended up being really strong solo top, just by virtue of them being sustain junglers, therefore if they reduce the need for sustain in the jungle, then they can nerf the innate sustain those problem champions have.
top lane has just about as many farm-fest matchups as any other lane tho (mybe a little less than ap's mid), hell look at soraka vs sona bot lane. Nothing fucking happens in that lane. I think the whole 'farm-fest' problem is far more systemic than a simple 'omg he has too much sustain'
|
On December 01 2011 01:12 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:56 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:54 spinesheath wrote:
It seems that people like to respond to my posts with posts that are not responses to my posts. I did feel it was relevant to your last point. IE If you rewamp something why the hell making it less accsesible and go "LOOK THESE ARE THE ONLY 2 HEROES YOU WILL EVER JUNGLE WITH OK?" cause they are the only ones that fit the bill. I gues what I'm saying is that if you are going to destroy the core of something, you better make sure the heroes follows. I would have been happy with the gold change only, that would have been a great change, that would make counterjungling worth it, but with the ridiculous spawntimers as it is now, it feels like a massive waste of time and it just slows you down in your own farm. My last point was "don't stick to something you are used to just because you're used to it when you're trying to remake the whole thing". Maybe buffed minigols would be good, maybe not. But buffing them based on a thought process based on the old way the jungle worked is definitely the wrong approach. Riot can't actually remake the jungle and test it internally well enough that it actually turns out satisfying soon after release. They don't have players skilled enough for that. They don't even have the time to test and develop a new metagame internally. Maybe they should have said that this is going to be a huge mess for at least the next couple of weeks before they released the changes. But nobody should have expected anything else.
Three letters P T R.
And since they are a microtransaction buisness, they could just go "Hey if you play 50 matches on the PTR and leave feedback you get X riot points".
|
I know there was a discussion a few pages back, but I almost feel that, until they change the Jungle again, it might just be worth it to run a duo lane. Buff control is important, and gank threat as well, but aside from the god-tier junglers (Skar, Udyr), every other Jungler just gets way too far behind to be useful unless they get a few good ganks, which is pretty hard now.
|
On December 01 2011 01:14 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:06 redtooth wrote:On December 01 2011 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 01 2011 00:40 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:36 DoXa wrote:On November 30 2011 23:48 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2011 18:09 wussleeQ wrote:wow. rofl. it didn't take long for them to say we fucked up Seriously? They're changing it already? How bush-league is Riot? It's like they don't even test major gameplay overhauls before implementing them. why do some people have to be so negative? they are doing this one day after the patch was applied, which is really fast. be happy that they are listening to the community, which is pretty rare in other games. They are also hiring Gametester, they are probably just understaffed. The problem is that it was implemented at all. How can they not have good enough testers. it took everyone about 2 matches to figure out that the new jungle sucked balls, and it was unison. There isn't 2 camps in this pretty much the entire community hated the changes. If the jungle is supposed to be like this I'm just going to drop it. There are like 3 viable junglers now. Riots mentally has always been that they punch someone in the face and then apologise really fast so that people can say "Oh, look how nice he is, he apologise for his bad behaviour" instead of just not running around punching people.And to add to this NOBODY was complaining about the jungle. They are changing something that was close to perfect into something that sucks major balls. and yes, I am almost exclusivly jungling these days, but unless this gets changed I am just going to drop it, that's how bad the change is. From my favourite role to "I rather play support" This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. They are not hurting people. They are changing the way the game is working. I don't believe they have malicious intent. High sustain champs have been a huge issue this year, especially top lane. These are often champions that are also very good in the jungle. By reducing how much sustain is necessary in the jungle, I believe they can start hitting the high sustain champs and make the game more dynamic. Top lane is pretty much just a farm fest after a while, which is pretty boring, imo. Sure, it's fun to come into the team fights after 20 minutes of afk farm to hit people hard. The issue is that it requires 20 minutes of afk farming. Now, this is coming from someone who mains AP mid, and dabbles elsewhere. I'm by no means a good jungler, but this is just my viewpoint. If I'm wrong, I have no problem being corrected, but I don't think it's necessary to go off on RIOT for messing around with game mechanics. first off i don't understand how changing jungle would effect top lane at all. if anything it gives an advantage to farm-fest heroes as they are less worried about red-buff-rape and junglers can't keep up. secondly, i think right now top lane is the single most dynamic lane in the game. you can count on one hand the top viable picks in mid, support, and carry. jungling you might need two hands. but at top literally it's anybody's game and based heavily on matchups. really don't think that TOP is the lane that needs to become more dynamic. The point is that a lot of champions have imba sustain because it's necessary for them to jungle. Nerfing the jungle creeps and adding sigils makes sustain less of an issue, allowing a wider variety of junglers and allowing you to nerf ridiculous sustain on champ kits, health pots, and lifesteal in general. Heck the only reason they BUFFED Nasus' passive awhile ago was because they wanted him to jungle better. That said they changed a whole lot more than just jungle creep damage in the revamp and have not changed sustain beyond health potions.
On December 01 2011 00:55 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 00:40 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:36 DoXa wrote:On November 30 2011 23:48 xDaunt wrote:On November 30 2011 18:09 wussleeQ wrote:wow. rofl. it didn't take long for them to say we fucked up Seriously? They're changing it already? How bush-league is Riot? It's like they don't even test major gameplay overhauls before implementing them. why do some people have to be so negative? they are doing this one day after the patch was applied, which is really fast. be happy that they are listening to the community, which is pretty rare in other games. They are also hiring Gametester, they are probably just understaffed. The problem is that it was implemented at all. How can they not have good enough testers. it took everyone about 2 matches to figure out that the new jungle sucked balls, and it was unison. There isn't 2 camps in this pretty much the entire community hated the changes. If the jungle is supposed to be like this I'm just going to drop it. There are like 3 viable junglers now. Riots mentally has always been that they punch someone in the face and then apologise really fast so that people can say "Oh, look how nice he is, he apologise for his bad behaviour" instead of just not running around punching people.And to add to this NOBODY was complaining about the jungle. They are changing something that was close to perfect into something that sucks major balls. and yes, I am almost exclusivly jungling these days, but unless this gets changed I am just going to drop it, that's how bad the change is. From my favourite role to "I rather play support" This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison. They are not hurting people. They are changing the way the game is working. I don't believe they have malicious intent. High sustain champs have been a huge issue this year, especially top lane. These are often champions that are also very good in the jungle. By reducing how much sustain is necessary in the jungle, I believe they can start hitting the high sustain champs and make the game more dynamic. Top lane is pretty much just a farm fest after a while, which is pretty boring, imo. Sure, it's fun to come into the team fights after 20 minutes of afk farm to hit people hard. The issue is that it requires 20 minutes of afk farming.
from what i can tell his post was about top lane not jungle. as a matter of fact it almost seems like he's implying changing the set of jungle heroes will change the set of heroes played top for some reason.
regardless, i still don't understand how changes in jungle = changes to top = something that is required.
|
On December 01 2011 01:17 Hynda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:12 spinesheath wrote:On December 01 2011 00:56 Hynda wrote:On December 01 2011 00:54 spinesheath wrote:
It seems that people like to respond to my posts with posts that are not responses to my posts. I did feel it was relevant to your last point. IE If you rewamp something why the hell making it less accsesible and go "LOOK THESE ARE THE ONLY 2 HEROES YOU WILL EVER JUNGLE WITH OK?" cause they are the only ones that fit the bill. I gues what I'm saying is that if you are going to destroy the core of something, you better make sure the heroes follows. I would have been happy with the gold change only, that would have been a great change, that would make counterjungling worth it, but with the ridiculous spawntimers as it is now, it feels like a massive waste of time and it just slows you down in your own farm. My last point was "don't stick to something you are used to just because you're used to it when you're trying to remake the whole thing". Maybe buffed minigols would be good, maybe not. But buffing them based on a thought process based on the old way the jungle worked is definitely the wrong approach. Riot can't actually remake the jungle and test it internally well enough that it actually turns out satisfying soon after release. They don't have players skilled enough for that. They don't even have the time to test and develop a new metagame internally. Maybe they should have said that this is going to be a huge mess for at least the next couple of weeks before they released the changes. But nobody should have expected anything else. Three letters P T R. And since they are a microtransaction buisness, they could just go "Hey if you play 50 matches on the PTR and leave feedback you get X riot points".
i feel like most of the top level players tho (and therefore the ones more likely to have a better understanding of what would be good or bad for the game) wouldn't bother with ptr kus it gives too little benefit to practice for something that may or may not exist. Dunno, may be completely off on that one, but that's my knee-jerk reaction.
|
They've been wanting to tone down sustain heroes because they tend to lend to stagnant top lanes (both players playing passive farm for 25 minutes), but couldn't because jungle was too difficult to kill without proper sustain (see: Wukong) or without massive AoE damage, the latter of which caused speed issues (Phoenix Udyr, Rammus, Shyv). This was exacerbated by their change like a year ago when they buffed jungle creep to try to nerf jungle speed but instant simply limited further the number of heroes that could feasibly jungle... so then they made Wriggles and then top lane heroes like all started buying Wriggles, lol.
Theoretically shanking jungle difficulty can open up heroes having less sustain, which will remove passive heroes from top lane (ie. the Udyrs); they've already spent months nerfing the sustain heroes that used to be retarded though so I'm not sure if it's absolutely required anymore.
|
On December 01 2011 01:26 Southlight wrote:
Theoretically shanking jungle difficulty can open up heroes having less sustain, which will remove passive heroes from top lane (ie. the Udyrs); they've already spent months nerfing the sustain heroes that used to be retarded though so I'm not sure if it's absolutely required anymore.
ok i still don't get it. why will shanking jungle difficulty make people not go udyr top?
secondly, who else but udyr (edit: and riven and gangplank who aren't really sustain crazy until wriggles) is super strong in both roles? i know there's heroes that could feasibly do it and even be viable at it (tryndamere, trundle, irelia, nocturne, warwick, etc) but they seem to be a notch under their counterparts in their foreign roles.
@barbsq
nerf jungle -> make junglers not need sustain -> nerf sustain junglers -> top is 'solved' i think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here.
|
Make an item that gives lifesteal/spellvamp off neutral mobs only. Bam, jungle-only item for sustain, balance around that.
Rough idea, but there needs to be some kind separation between lane and jungle items if you want Junglers to act differently from laners.
|
On December 01 2011 01:31 redtooth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:26 Southlight wrote:
Theoretically shanking jungle difficulty can open up heroes having less sustain, which will remove passive heroes from top lane (ie. the Udyrs); they've already spent months nerfing the sustain heroes that used to be retarded though so I'm not sure if it's absolutely required anymore. ok i still don't get it. why will shanking jungle difficulty make people not go udyr top? secondly, who else but udyr (edit: and riven) is super strong in both roles? i know there's heroes that could feasibly do it and even be viable at it (trundle, irelia, nocturne, warwick, etc) but they seem to be a notch under their counterparts in their foreign roles.
Other than Cho'Gath, I don't think there's anyone else.
|
lowering jungle difficulty doesnt truely make more heroes viable, it just makes more heroes possible. if rammus can sonic mode across the map at 100mph another hero with a similar tool set who cant still will never be chosen. they will now be able to clear the jungle but they will be so shit tier only 'noobs' will pick them to jungle. and in noob level games balance doesnt matter for shit anyway
thats what seems to of come about from the nerf to jungle difficulty more than their goal. sure you can jungle on annie or whatever, but in any kind of competitive setting, even mid level, no one is going to play a shit tier jungler even if the other xp and gold issues didnt exist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
