|
Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On December 13 2011 06:42 TheYango wrote:
Clear speeds would be too erratic. It works out on AD heroes because they autoattack enough times per camp for the proc chance to even out over time. But with AP champs, their cooldowns are such that they'd cast 1 spell per camp. If they proc, they instaclear, and if they don't they have to wait for another round of cooldowns before they can finish the camp.
Nobody said put the proc to proc on spells, could (should) still proc off auto-attacks. But the stats could be more AP focused than AD
|
All the good streamers are back. This is so nice.
|
On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs)
I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle.
|
On December 13 2011 06:43 UniversalSnip wrote:
All the good streamers are back. This is so nice.
Oh man, how I missed Chaox.
also: Thanks Yango, you're awesomesauce!
|
Only thing I could think of that would actually work would be a %increase on minion damage dealt by spells. Procs are too erratic for spells, as others have stated.
But IMO ap junglers would be REAL stupid. Imagine jungle malz.
|
On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle.
I didn't know Riot intended Soraka for jungling.
On December 13 2011 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only thing I could think of that would actually work would be a %increase on minion damage dealt by spells. Procs are too erratic for spells, as others have stated.
But IMO ap junglers would be REAL stupid. Imagine jungle malz.
I actually had a Jungle Malzahar route worked out even before they made leashing possible.
|
On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle.
Most AP's are inherently better gankers, too. Imagine AP sion, annie, brand, etc running out of the jungle to gank your lane AND being able to keep up reasonably with the bruiser-type junglers.
|
On December 13 2011 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only thing I could think of that would actually work would be a %increase on minion damage dealt by spells. Procs are too erratic for spells, as others have stated.
But IMO ap junglers would be REAL stupid. Imagine jungle malz.
Really not that much different than jungle ww. Either of them land their ult on you in a gank and it's almost 100% a kill. Range on their ults are pretty similar too
On December 13 2011 06:49 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle. Most AP's are inherently better gankers, too. Imagine AP sion, annie, brand, etc running out of the jungle to gank your lane AND being able to keep up reasonably with the bruiser-type junglers.
Again, their ganks are thwarted by the same methods current junglers are: warding and map awareness. They still have to sprint up to you in order to do it.
|
Does akali count as an ap they intended to jungle? Because she can do it off vamp scepter, which builds into gunblade. Give a decent leash you could just rush 6 and then be a monster.
|
On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle.
I don't think they intended for Rumble and Karthus to be viable in the jungle.
I dunno how many AP champions would open up as potential junglers with a change like that but I can't imagine many would. It'd probably help Rumble and Nunu become a bit better at jungling. I don't think it'd change Fiddle at all, maybe if he gets lucky procs when he isn't draining. It would probably make Amumu a lot stronger though.
|
On December 13 2011 06:49 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle. I didn't know Riot intended Soraka for jungling.
yeah good point. I guess what I mean is that it's nice that APs riot didn't intend to jungle aren't commonly jungled, not that they can't be
edit: lol? everyone jumping to name every ap hero that can possibly jungle. real
|
Technically all aps can jungle, just not efficiently and have to back after every trip/get philos. The mentioned ones don't really have to and have decent ganks/counterganks.
|
On December 13 2011 06:50 STS17 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only thing I could think of that would actually work would be a %increase on minion damage dealt by spells. Procs are too erratic for spells, as others have stated.
But IMO ap junglers would be REAL stupid. Imagine jungle malz. Really not that much different than jungle ww. Either of them land their ult on you in a gank and it's almost 100% a kill. Range on their ults are pretty similar too Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:49 Sandster wrote:On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle. Most AP's are inherently better gankers, too. Imagine AP sion, annie, brand, etc running out of the jungle to gank your lane AND being able to keep up reasonably with the bruiser-type junglers. Again, their ganks are thwarted by the same methods current junglers are: warding and map awareness. They still have to sprint up to you in order to do it.
Jungle Malz sounds broken. You silence as you come in so they can't flash then you flash pool dot ult dead.
|
On December 13 2011 06:57 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 06:50 STS17 wrote:On December 13 2011 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only thing I could think of that would actually work would be a %increase on minion damage dealt by spells. Procs are too erratic for spells, as others have stated.
But IMO ap junglers would be REAL stupid. Imagine jungle malz. Really not that much different than jungle ww. Either of them land their ult on you in a gank and it's almost 100% a kill. Range on their ults are pretty similar too On December 13 2011 06:49 Sandster wrote:On December 13 2011 06:46 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 13 2011 06:39 STS17 wrote:
Why doesn't riot create an AP version of wriggles (mostly looking for the proc here, and I don't believe it should give spell vamp). Right now the jungle is dominated by bruiser-type champions or assassins / early gankers (shaco/nocturne) and AP is kinda forced out of the jungle in most cases.
I believe this has a large part to do with their inability to clear the jungle effectively with just their spells since most don't have a highly spammable aoe effect and generally do not want to purchase wriggles. A more caster-friendly version of the item could go a long way towards helping that problem
Moreover, your AP is usually the guy who wants blue and this offers a perfect way of seeing they always have it. It opens up more opportunities for double-AP teams and with the change to redbuff proccing on single target spells their ganks will be extremely scary (promoting more aggression overall since AP champs usually have stronger ganks than AD champs) I kind of like that only ap heroes they actually intended to jungle can. The fact that any ad can jungle with wriggles does not exactly make it easier to balance the jungle. Most AP's are inherently better gankers, too. Imagine AP sion, annie, brand, etc running out of the jungle to gank your lane AND being able to keep up reasonably with the bruiser-type junglers. Again, their ganks are thwarted by the same methods current junglers are: warding and map awareness. They still have to sprint up to you in order to do it. Jungle Malz sounds broken. You silence as you come in so they can't flash then you flash pool dot ult dead.
1. Why aren't you backing off when you see him on the map with your ward?
2. His silence has a (fairly large, especially if you're paying attention) casting window which offers plenty of time to react and get out of the way of it. You can flash then.
Malz ganks aren't really that much scarier than many of the common junglers with hard CC. If they were as scary as you are implying then his midlane->sidelane ganks would happen much more frequently (not saying they don't happen, but it's not much different than him jungle ganking)
|
Jungle malz isn't broken because the silence isn't that easy to land when they see it(can always preflash). Annie can jungle too ask saint, real beast.
Heimer can jungle aswell a lot of the aps can jungle actually.
|
hey everyone I just want you to know that me and seuss pioneered jungle malz before malz was even "good" just sayin
it still works btw, even better now that camps are easier to clear (voidlings can last from one camp to the next)
W first, cast it in fountain to charge it up, head to blue and hope the voidling attacks blue. Maybe you can start E and charge it up on wolves??? That's all you really need to get rolling. Clears pretty quickly.
|
When is it a good idea to commit to an early oracles on a jungler. A lot of junglers tend to die when they get caught, but I could see Shyvanna, Udyr, Shaco, and Rammus all being able to escape when caught and being the jungler you have better control over the top and mid wards than the support would, as the support would have to let the carry get zoned to clear wards on the top of the map.
|
The problem with jungle heimer is that he doesn't do anything. He can't invade, he can't gank, he can only afk farm jungle and cover lanes, and he either hogs the blues or needs a philo 
He used to be pretty decent for grabbing a fast dragon but since turrets can't shred anymore >_>
|
In general 400 gold is far too much of a risk in the new jungle. Die once and you're behind one and a half rotations. Also, Rammus Shyvana and Udyr aren't that hard to chase down if you have a consistent slow.
|
On December 13 2011 07:05 JackDino wrote:
Jungle malz isn't broken because the silence isn't that easy to land when they see it(can always preflash). Annie can jungle too ask saint, real beast.
Heimer can jungle aswell a lot of the aps can jungle actually.
Annie can jungle cause of her E though. And she still doesn't clear fast enough to be viable at the competitive level. I don't think Malz could realistically jungle unless some kind of AP jungling item was made as suggested. And personally I think Annie ganks are a lot stronger than Malz ganks. Heimer jungle is pretty funny.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
