[Patch 1.0.0.130: Volibear] General Discussion - Page 171

On December 10 2011 05:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
You aren't deciding between 10%arpen and 10% crit damage though because you want both of them. If you think Lethality is a bad mastery because it isn't as good as 10% arpen you're not comparing the correct things. You should be taking both of them since there are so few sources of such stats and they're such strong stats once you're built.

On December 10 2011 05:14 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
For a buiser top I might steer clear of lethality because it only shines once you have a lot of ad and crit, but it's a huge damage boost for ad carries. I do agree that lethality is quite weak early on though. When you do the stack phantom dancer build where you don't make ad items it most certainly sucks compared to the arpen mastery.

On December 10 2011 02:55 JackDino wrote:
That's not an actual 1v5 and those are champs with more items than others, someone said that the definition of a hypercarry was being able to 1v5 with full items. You should assume enemies have full items aswell otherwise a lot of fed champs are hypercarries.

On December 10 2011 05:23 tmtx wrote:
I have a spare dota 2 key, so I might as well convert some LoL player. First one who PMs me their email gets it. Sorry for offtopic.

On December 10 2011 05:30 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:

I saw Kyuubicake get jumped 1v5 in a lane once as Akali with just a GA, boots, a gunblade and an amp tome and she pentakilled them. I have the replay but I have no idea how to upload it.

On December 10 2011 05:42 Hynda wrote:

I've seen renekton jus A click the other teams fountain and killed everything in his way there. I liked it when he could hypercarry

On December 10 2011 05:23 Mogwai wrote:

where did I say it was bad? I'm saying it's overrated. which is fucking true, no question. show me a post suggesting that Weapon Expertise be split into 3 points. oh wait, no one's posting that because no one has a problem with it. but they see lethality and shit their pants because of the comparison to the old mastery. all I'm trying to point out is that there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to strong offensive masteries and that talking about nerfing lethality without talking about weapon expertise is stupid.


lethality only cares about crit chance. AD has nothing to do with the relative increase in damage output from lethality. take my example from last time. make it 1000 AD rather than 100 AD. that just mutiples the damage on everything by 10, which means arpen still outperforms it, even at 1000 AD and 60% Crit vs. 100 Armor. crit chance is the only relevant stat to whether lethality is any good or not, Attack Speed and Attack Damage have nothing to do with it.


SO, to clarify, Lethality isn't bad, it's just that Weapon Expertise is stronger, so don't give me this shit about Lethality needs a nerf without talking about Weapon Expertise (and Archaic Mastery too for that matter).

On December 10 2011 05:47 Juicyfruit wrote:


And both of these masteries are only marginally better than the 3AD from tier 1, (that costs 3 points but still).

:D

On December 10 2011 05:06 Mufaa wrote:


It was posted a page or 2 back. And the point is because any AD is going to get the 4% crit for the 10% crit damage because there is nothing else worth taking. So what happens is lanes break early because 2 evenly skilled players who would normally just farm with minor harass/skirmishes are doing the same but now one of them will get a lucky crit and often win the lane because of it. People aren't complaining about crit runes/ashes passive and other crit abilities because they can be counterplayed and with runes you have to give something up for the crit (ad, arpen, etc).

On December 10 2011 05:53 Mogwai wrote:
1 point in Weapon Expertise outperforms 3 points in brute force even at just 100 AD vs. 50 armor. also, 1 point vs. 3 points is not something to shrug off unless the pre-reqs for the 1 pointer are legitimately a drawback. Since they aren't, it's a silly comparison at best.

On December 10 2011 05:53 Mogwai wrote:

1 point in Weapon Expertise outperforms 3 points in brute force even at just 100 AD vs. 50 armor. also, 1 point vs. 3 points is not something to shrug off unless the pre-reqs for the 1 pointer are legitimately a drawback. Since they aren't, it's a silly comparison at best.

On December 10 2011 04:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Loci looking REAL sexy like on stream.

On December 10 2011 05:56 spinesheath wrote:

Here's what I conclude from your post:

Random rare crits are unwanted earlygame because they can decide the game.
1 crit glyph (0.28%) either can't produce said unwanted crits (AT ALL, or else it would still be an issue, just in fewer games) or can be counterplayed or the has too high of an opportunity cost.

Doesn't work out.

As long as you have more than 0 crit during early game and lucky crits are considered a bad thing, nothing's solved. Whether you have 4% or 0.28%, there will always be a game with lucky crits.


How about this: make crit damage scale. Currently, every champ has 200% base crit damage, 210/250/260/ect with mastery/IE/runes. If you started out with 150% and it would increase up to 200% at level 9 or w/e, early crits would be less of an issue. Or a scaling factor on top of your total crit damage, to also reduce the strength of +crit damage at early levels.
I personally wouldn't like that btw. It increases the complexity of the basic game mechanics, which imo is bad design (just like the new jungle exp pool system).


As long as there is ANY crit in the game, I don't really care if there is a free 4% for a bunch of champs

On December 10 2011 05:56 spinesheath wrote:

Then again you have to spend 4 points on the rank 1 offense masteries to reach any better ones, so you can't really trade those 3 points for something else either.

On December 10 2011 06:03 Mogwai wrote:

can we just stop this? I understand how trees work, I'm just saying that if you think Lethality is out of line for a single point, you also need to look at the 10% penetration masteries as well.

On December 10 2011 06:01 Mogwai wrote:

agree with this post 100%

I know slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy or w/e, but when I read the crit complaints, I just can't see what would be the difference if suddenly everyone just randomly put a crit seal on their rune page to gain that random lane win every once in awhile when they luck out. or opening brawlers glove and getting 2 (WTF! HAX!) crits to win the lane via RNG. I just don't see why the points making sense to get in the mastery tree impacts the argument that early game crit ruins laning.

On December 10 2011 06:23 Juicyfruit wrote:
I dunno... how often is a lane ACTUALLY won on 1 crit alone? I feel like that's retardedly exaggerated and you'd have to have an engagement that would end ridiculously close one way or another for it to really matter.

In soloQ, that might happen once every 100 game per person, but that just adds flavor.

In tournament games, that would never happen in the first place because how often do you see people commit on each other without having a large margin of confidence in themselves?

On December 10 2011 06:23 Juicyfruit wrote:
I dunno... how often is a lane ACTUALLY won on 1 crit alone? I feel like that's retardedly exaggerated and you'd have to have an engagement that would end ridiculously close one way or another for it to really matter.

In soloQ, that might happen once every 100 game per person, but that just adds flavor.

In tournament games, that would never happen in the first place because how often do you see people commit on each other without having a large margin of confidence in themselves?