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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On December 09 2011 02:54 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:16 Haemonculus wrote:On December 09 2011 01:52 NeoIllusions wrote:
My take on Panth vs Trynd is that Panth will win early levels. Only way Trynd wins is lucky crits at level 1. As soon as Panth hits 2, there's no trade I can see where Trynd would win.
To stay relevant, Panth needs to kill Trynd during laning phase. Equal farm/level goes to Trynd obviously. With that said, if Trynd can hit 6 or make Wriggle's and at worst be behind 25 or so CS, I'd say Trynd has won already. Late game scaling is just retardedly in Trynd favor. Well obviously late-game farmed trynd will beat just about anyone. Panth may be one of the only champs that can really prevent him from getting there in the first place. Who else can really go toe to toe with tryndy? Pirate/Udyr maybe? They may not be traditional top chars but I know anyone with thornmail and a taunt, or AD sion absolutely rape tryn in 1on1 fights. Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 02:23 Xedat wrote:On December 09 2011 02:00 Hynda wrote:On December 09 2011 01:38 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 09 2011 01:17 Hynda wrote:
Guys remember back in the original thread when I went like "HEY GUYS I MAIN LEBLANC AND SHE IS LIKE OP LOL" and everyone else went like "NAH BRO, SHE ISN'T SHE IS NEVER PLAYED IN HIGH ELO" look at you fools now! I see Leblancs in half the streamers games and she's banned in quite a few. WHO IS LAUGHING NOW! I am, cause now everyone will have to listen to my advice, and if they don't I get to be all snarky and go "WHO PREDICTED THAT LB WAS GOING TO BE VIABLE!?!?!?" ?? She's still pretty bad. She's an assassin that snowballs. It's surprising that she does well in solo q? I'd still take an Akali over LeBlanc npnp. Just you wait, she'll find her way into tournament play  She is my favourite champ and it feels good seeing her being used at 2100 elo instead of never above 1250. Regi played her in IEM tourney and what really made her so strong is the new masteries, I don't know who said it but she was balanced around being able to nearly killing people with on combo and now she can kill a lot more champs with just one combo. At IEM I think it was Salce actually started only bots against her as it is impossible to sustain against her damage and once she gets a level advantage its even more impossible to farm. Edit: Just saw that this was talked about last page....I just got up, excuse me. I have one question though, the last 3 Masteries in the defensive mastery seem pretty bad, is this just my noobish thinking, but even the 10% cc reduction doesn't stat additively with Tenacity or not? So if you get merc threads and you get them with every tanky character, just investing further into an other tree seems better. If you take long cc like fiddles fear, the 4 seconds are reduced by 35% by merc threads and then by how much by the mastery exactly? The 10% cc reduction only works on disables. It stacks multiplicatively with other tenacity or cc reduction abilities. So a 3 second fiddle fear, when targeted against someone with cloak and dagger (35 tenacity) and the 10% cc reduction yields a 3*.65*.9 second fear. 1.75 second fear. Also I still don't get how people consider leblanc a bad AP character come late game. She seems to have nice AOE and AP ratios when compared to other AP carries. Sivir seems strong, but I think her fundamental weakness is still her range. Someone like caitlyn can kick her ass in lane with autoattacks and nets to dodge her boomerangs.
leblanc is a bad char lategame exclusively because of how combo-based her damage is. To get full dmg output, you have to do 3 spells in a row, within a specific margin of time, and the third spell is either a semi-weird skillshot or it teleports you right to the person, which is not ideal, esp if u get stunned be4 u can blink back. If just 1 of these steps is either blocked or times out, then it eliminates a massive amount of your damage output. It also doesnt help that everything about her is built for 1v1, but at the same time has no side-pushing abilities, so isn't really in a position to force 1v1's
She also has like 0 aoe, dunno where u got that from.
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United States37500 Posts
GB vs PD:
Smash says: when you're sitting on wriggles + X where X is one of those two
Ghostblade is better
PD just outscales it (after a few more items/late game)
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Actually if you got an amumu ult or any other multiple stun off wwrr on 3 guys does good damage. then you can qe someone as they come out of the ult.
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On December 09 2011 03:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
GB vs PD:
Smash says: when you're sitting on wriggles + X where X is one of those two
Ghostblade is better
PD just outscales it (after a few more items/late game)
to further AIM dump our convo:
neo: wriggle's mandatory on trynd?
neo: i thnk so
neo: zz
Smash: so if you go ghostblade, you get a little midgame power bump, if you go PD yo get a little lategame power bump
Smash: it's a preference thing IMHO
Smash: yea
Smash: wriggle's mandatory on non-Pantheon tops
neo: ward + armor + procs
Smash: and debatably riven I guess
Smash: it's so good
neo: wriggles pd ie lw<=> pd qss
neo: is what i tend to do
Smash: yea, and that's fine
Smash: I just think you can do, Wriggles GB PD BC -> w/e last time
Smash: and hit an earlier godmode
Smash: item* jesus dyslexia
neo: lol
neo: that was awsum
neo: BC
neo: haven't BC
neo: except corki vayne
neo: zz
Smash: well
neo: i'll tryout your build later
Smash: you like LW and don't embrace flat pen builds
Smash: which is fine, better scaling
neo: tru
neo: i'm all about late game
neo: tbh
Smash: yea, again it's just style and when you want to hit the sweet spot in your power curve
Smash: I don't build my characters to win the late game, I build them to get us there with an advantage
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On December 09 2011 02:42 Ian Ian Ian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 09:51 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 08 2011 09:36 Ian Ian Ian wrote:On December 08 2011 08:45 Shiv. wrote:On December 08 2011 08:42 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
Since when is tryn op :S Since his remake. Wasnt that like 3 months ago? I don't see him as much of a problem. he's a problem because they kept his mad lategame damage, but gave him free sustain in the form of a massive buff to his Q. Tryn grabs wriggles and is as unmovable from lane as Irelia and scales harder. Tryn wasn't op before remake cause he was easy to bully out of lane. Now it's near impossible. Not to mention a free 35% crit chance means he can just build up fury, walk up to you, and get crits for an easy lane win every 3rd hit. I dont think the Q was that massive of a buff..He healed more before, and only had to kill/crit 7 times to get it full. Which isnt that much. And his Q is kind of a double edged sword, if you use it to heal, all of a sudden you become almost useless and can do no damage to anyone at top until you get your rage back. To get rage back you have to auto the creeps, which is hard to do when enemy can jump you because you are no threa without crit. And even if you do farm your rage back up you've likely pushed lane which makes you super susceptible to ganks. Any form of CC also hard counters tryn, as well as thornmails, since he can literally ONLY do physical damage without his E. Idk.. I don't think he's that op, people just dont play against him right Also; I don't like going wriggles with tryn. He's supposed to have that massive damage mid-lategame and wriggles just doesn't have that feel. I like building vamp->boots->bf sword personally.
7 kills is literally all you need to max your Fury with the new Q. Also, new Q is less of a double-edged sword than old Q. Old Q you lost all 40 AD, the crit damage and however much crit 400 health represented. If you were fighting a champion you had to pray for crits to get stacks back and until you did your damage sucked. New Q you keep 25 AD even without any Fury and you start regaining crit immediately because you don't need to crit to stack/gain Fury.
Plus you can now spam Q as you travel between lanes or if you're zoned. 70 health every 12 seconds is 29.2 hp5, which is like having two Regrowth Pendants.
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Q also has 1.5 AP ratio. AP quints + amp tomb opening -> hybrid rageblade trynd is real fun. Spin all day, heal self for infinite hp all day huehuehuehue
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triple blade trynd es best trynd build evar
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On December 09 2011 03:18 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
GB vs PD:
Smash says: when you're sitting on wriggles + X where X is one of those two
Ghostblade is better
PD just outscales it (after a few more items/late game) to further AIM dump our convo: neo: wriggle's mandatory on trynd? neo: i thnk so neo: zz Smash: so if you go ghostblade, you get a little midgame power bump, if you go PD yo get a little lategame power bump Smash: it's a preference thing IMHO Smash: yea Smash: wriggle's mandatory on non-Pantheon tops neo: ward + armor + procs Smash: and debatably riven I guess Smash: it's so good
I get a lot of flak for this but I don't think wriggles is mandatory on Trynd. If I'm already wining my lane, I'd rather get zeal + vamp scepter instead of wriggles. I mean, yes wriggles is awesome, but I'd rather have an earlier PD in those circumstances.
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TSM housemaid #1 cleaner.
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On December 09 2011 03:40 Lanzoma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:18 Mogwai wrote:On December 09 2011 03:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
GB vs PD:
Smash says: when you're sitting on wriggles + X where X is one of those two
Ghostblade is better
PD just outscales it (after a few more items/late game) to further AIM dump our convo: neo: wriggle's mandatory on trynd? neo: i thnk so neo: zz Smash: so if you go ghostblade, you get a little midgame power bump, if you go PD yo get a little lategame power bump Smash: it's a preference thing IMHO Smash: yea Smash: wriggle's mandatory on non-Pantheon tops neo: ward + armor + procs Smash: and debatably riven I guess Smash: it's so good I get a lot of flak for this but I don't think wriggles is mandatory on Trynd. If I'm already wining my lane, I'd rather get zeal + vamp scepter instead of wriggles. I mean, yes wriggles is awesome, but I'd rather have an earlier PD in those circumstances.
Even in that circumstance I like wriggles because it basically shuts the door on the enemy having any shot at coming back in the lane.
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On December 09 2011 03:40 Lanzoma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 03:18 Mogwai wrote:On December 09 2011 03:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
GB vs PD:
Smash says: when you're sitting on wriggles + X where X is one of those two
Ghostblade is better
PD just outscales it (after a few more items/late game) to further AIM dump our convo: neo: wriggle's mandatory on trynd? neo: i thnk so neo: zz Smash: so if you go ghostblade, you get a little midgame power bump, if you go PD yo get a little lategame power bump Smash: it's a preference thing IMHO Smash: yea Smash: wriggle's mandatory on non-Pantheon tops neo: ward + armor + procs Smash: and debatably riven I guess Smash: it's so good I get a lot of flak for this but I don't think wriggles is mandatory on Trynd. If I'm already wining my lane, I'd rather get zeal + vamp scepter instead of wriggles. I mean, yes wriggles is awesome, but I'd rather have an earlier PD in those circumstances.
I have to be really far ahead or completely ignoring my opponent (some GP games, lol) to not build wriggles with an AD top lane.
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I am seriously finding the rain man's stream amusing just because he is wearing garbage bags till he hits #1 on the ladder.
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On December 09 2011 04:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
I am seriously finding the rain man's stream amusing just because he is wearing garbage bags till he hits #1 on the ladder.
Oh is that why he's wearing them? I was wondering...
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On December 09 2011 04:06 Shifft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 04:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
I am seriously finding the rain man's stream amusing just because he is wearing garbage bags till he hits #1 on the ladder. Oh is that why he's wearing them? I was wondering...
Low elo at the TSM house takes out the trash. Its a motivational thing.
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i try to whine about this at least once every 50 pages, i think lifesteal and spellvamp kinda break the laning phase because they have full effect on minions but are balanced for fighting champions. Gain hundreds of life every minion wave trololol. The history of this game is every single defensive recipe getting nerfed because defensive stats, healing etc have always been too strong everywhere they are present in this game. They get nerfed in layers, the top few defense items (say, randuins and frozen heart) get nerfed so people move on to sunfires, that gets nerfed so they go to hog, that gets nerfed so philo is 15+ in every game etc. None of these were fair, it's just that the game offers a million abusive mechanics that give durability and there's always been a fallback when the topmost broken thing gets nerfed. Bout time we got around to lifesteal
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I don't think there's a problem with spell vamp/lifesteal. Only reason I think it might seem that way is because damage dealers deal too much damage right now and that's just because the offensive tree is fucking retarded compared to the other trees.
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I actually think that lifesteal is fine because it keeps you in lane. I know that on a rational level, removing lifesteal from the laning phase would result in the higher skill player winning because you can either force the enemy from lane or just kill them, but on a actual subjective playing level, it FUCKING SUCKS to have to keep going back to heal after every skirmish just because I'm too low. As much as lifesteal doesnt promote kills per say, in my mind it does promote aggression because you know you arent screwed if you happen to come out behind.
As for spell vamp, its only actually broken on energy champs or champs without actual spell costs.
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United States37500 Posts
Only leech I had problems with was Akali with spellvamp. Go from 100 hp to half life with 4 minions. Silly.
Otherwise, life steal is eh, ok. Irritating but not borken. Irelia/Udyr still biggest culprits.
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There's nothing wrong with irelia, I don't know why she's still brought up. She has a strong laning phase once she get some levels but so does every goddamn bruiser out there. Udyr, well, the life and mana recovery on his turtle shield function only for laning and could be removed, along with the cannot crit component. Jungle udyr only uses turtle for the shield you jungle too slowly if you actually slap shit in turtle stance. Lane udyr would probably be pretty awful without it, though.
As for the "higher skilled player wins" logic, not really. You can always invest more in pots if they removed lifesteal, or, more likely, 99% of the time the champion with better harass wins because you just avoid trades until you win. That is, if they didn't buy enough pots/regen that you can out sustain the harass and win trades or at least not lose enough that your pots/regen pulls through.
If irelias sustain is some kind of problem to you I suggest you try out swain or nasus or vlad or warwick who are the same deal.
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On December 09 2011 04:27 Two_DoWn wrote:
I know that on a rational level, removing lifesteal from the laning phase would result in the higher skill player winning because you can either force the enemy from lane or just kill them
Or would it mean that the champ with the higher range wins the lane, all the time?
It's definitely not immediately clear what effect the removal of lifesteal from laning would have. The effect would most definitely depend on the matchup, though.
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EPT
