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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 29 2011 23:40 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:38 Bladeorade wrote:On November 29 2011 15:00 rob.au wrote:
Wukong gets owned in lane....melee + mana based + no sustain. So many heroes destroy him in lane. How do you figure? He can harass with little retaliation and has crazy burst. Starting cloth 5 Pots into tabi and bruta is cheap and so strong IMO. Yeah.. having build in sustain require to be a viable laner is something 6 month old. He have basicly free manacost too. Look at Talon before he nerf. No sustain, Mana, melee. Still one of the best solotop in the game for weeks.
Talon is far from being the best solotop lol.
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Eh, I was just referring to the auto-attack reset portion of it, which is something that I guess I should have compared to MF or something rather than nasus, because I will agree with you there, Nasus' Q is WAY more baller than this new sivir ricochet. (Although 5 bounces at lv1 might be rather nice)
On November 29 2011 23:40 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:38 Bladeorade wrote:On November 29 2011 15:00 rob.au wrote:
Wukong gets owned in lane....melee + mana based + no sustain. So many heroes destroy him in lane. How do you figure? He can harass with little retaliation and has crazy burst. Starting cloth 5 Pots into tabi and bruta is cheap and so strong IMO. Yeah.. having build in sustain require to be a viable laner is something 6 month old. He have basicly free manacost too. Look at Talon before he nerf. No sustain, Mana, melee. Still one of the best solotop in the game for weeks.
Before his mana/mana cost nerfs, Talon might as well have been a no-mana, CDR only champ. He had more base mana regen than AP casters, and his mana costs were very low. He's not really "best solotop" anymore, especially since his lane opponent buying 1 armor item makes him cry.
Also, I feel like they still didn't give Sivir enough range to compete with other AD carries - she should have at LEAST 525 to match graves in the "low range AD-carry" department. Not entirely sure why they had to nerf her ulti AS steroid either. (Same benefit to allies though).
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5 bounces instead of 20000 bounces no fun.
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On November 29 2011 23:51 sylverfyre wrote:Eh, I was just referring to the auto-attack reset portion of it, which is something that I guess I should have compared to MF or something rather than nasus, because I will agree with you there, Nasus' Q is WAY more baller than this new sivir ricochet. (Although 5 bounces at lv1 might be rather nice) Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:40 Noocta wrote:On November 29 2011 23:38 Bladeorade wrote:On November 29 2011 15:00 rob.au wrote:
Wukong gets owned in lane....melee + mana based + no sustain. So many heroes destroy him in lane. How do you figure? He can harass with little retaliation and has crazy burst. Starting cloth 5 Pots into tabi and bruta is cheap and so strong IMO. Yeah.. having build in sustain require to be a viable laner is something 6 month old. He have basicly free manacost too. Look at Talon before he nerf. No sustain, Mana, melee. Still one of the best solotop in the game for weeks. Before his mana/mana cost nerfs, Talon might as well have been a no-mana, CDR only champ. He had more base mana regen than AP casters, and his mana costs were very low. He's not really "best solotop" anymore, especially since his lane opponent buying 1 armor item makes him cry.
Before the mananerf he was pretty retarded but saying he's still one of the best laners just isn't true, he's countered easily by someone tanky being able to stack armour, one of the best solotops doesn't have that many counters.
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On November 29 2011 23:33 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:28 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 29 2011 23:26 arb wrote:On November 29 2011 23:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I think people should be happy. No more double golem lvl 2 ganks from shaco/lee sin. However if you can start at doubles and full clear you're going to get way ahead in levels compared to the other jungler. started at blue a min ago with trundle, just using a vamp scepter and never went below 90% hp cleared fairly quickly, wolves came up in time to get me lvl4 just as the last small golem died(guessing other junglers will be ahead but still) double golem start gets you killing 8 full camps compared to the 5-6 of a blue/wolf start. How?Isn't it the same but you just end up at different sides of the map? Edit:Don't tell me wolves respawn while your still wacking away at blue-__________-
just did blue first on noc and wolves respawned while i was on double golems before red. you can sit in the jungle for way too long on cloth5pots now. I dunno jungling seems so unfullfilling now especially with how easy and unrewarding it is clearing camps in 3 seconds
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On November 29 2011 12:34 Alzadar wrote:Carry over response: Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 12:04 tobi9999 wrote:On November 29 2011 12:02 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Too bad Morgana hard counters Kassadin ^_^ morgana doesn't counter kassadin at all. if kassadin can last hit well at tower at least What can a Kassadin do against a Morgana with quick reaction time? Null Sphere is slow enough to shield it in the air, unless it's point blank range in which case you shield as soon as he jumps. Without the silence I don't see how he's any match for Morgana.
Pretty much. And if he does riftwalk onto you, you shield and then press R and if your jungler is anywhere nearby, probably free kill. If not, you chunk him hard enough that he probably can't CS until he goes back to heal.
Hell, just the fact that he's melee makes it hard to CS because puddles can get in the way.
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It's gonna take a long time to rebalance after all of these changes. 
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On November 29 2011 23:59 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:33 TheKefka wrote:On November 29 2011 23:28 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 29 2011 23:26 arb wrote:On November 29 2011 23:20 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I think people should be happy. No more double golem lvl 2 ganks from shaco/lee sin. However if you can start at doubles and full clear you're going to get way ahead in levels compared to the other jungler. started at blue a min ago with trundle, just using a vamp scepter and never went below 90% hp cleared fairly quickly, wolves came up in time to get me lvl4 just as the last small golem died(guessing other junglers will be ahead but still) double golem start gets you killing 8 full camps compared to the 5-6 of a blue/wolf start. How?Isn't it the same but you just end up at different sides of the map? Edit:Don't tell me wolves respawn while your still wacking away at blue-__________- just did blue first on noc and wolves respawned while i was on double golems before red. you can sit in the jungle for way too long on cloth5pots now. I dunno jungling seems so unfullfilling now especially with how easy and unrewarding it is clearing camps in 3 seconds
If you used to stay in the jungle, you would have a lot of down time which is what caused junglers to fall behind laners. Forcing a jungler to gank in order to keep up with the team in levels is the same as making a certain lane gank a different lane in order to keep up. Is the jungle a viable farming route now is the real question. Before if you spent 20 minutes in the jungle vs a lane you would be losing by 2-3 levels, and it only gets worse the longer you run the game.
It's no problem for me because I know how to jungle and the priority of the jungle vs the needs of a lane (which is why I often have an amazing score until my lanes just feed too much because I can't be there 24/7).
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one of ST's players (ryu) is on Hotshotgg's stream now owning as Ashe.
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Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers?
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On November 29 2011 23:48 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2011 23:40 Noocta wrote:On November 29 2011 23:38 Bladeorade wrote:On November 29 2011 15:00 rob.au wrote:
Wukong gets owned in lane....melee + mana based + no sustain. So many heroes destroy him in lane. How do you figure? He can harass with little retaliation and has crazy burst. Starting cloth 5 Pots into tabi and bruta is cheap and so strong IMO. Yeah.. having build in sustain require to be a viable laner is something 6 month old. He have basicly free manacost too. Look at Talon before he nerf. No sustain, Mana, melee. Still one of the best solotop in the game for weeks. Talon is far from being the best solotop lol.
He was very good before his recents nerf to mana / manaregen.
Wukong is pretty much the same, his manacost are a joke.
I can list you so many good solotop without iniate sustain.
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On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers?
Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now.
edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now.
also I don't even think you need wriggles now on probably anyone.
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On November 29 2011 23:17 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Did anyone try sivir? Thoughts?
Bommerang blade is crazy scary now- if they don't dodge it on the return, they are going to regret it. The extra 75 autoattack range is huge as expected. The ricochet shot isn't as good as it was, but you can clear waves later on about as effectively as before (only difference is your boomerang does more of the damage). Not sure how it fares in teamfights, but with the extra range I imagine it is okay. The passive is really awesome, easy to finish off kills now, especially with the ultimate. Easier to snowball with that.
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On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now.
Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g.
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On November 30 2011 00:39 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now. Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g.
Small mobs give 1/3rd their old gold value. Large ones are the same and more. Doubles used to give 30 each, and at like 7 minutes I got 33g from the large one and 26 from the small one. Small wraiths give 4g each, big one still gives 35 (I saw 36 at like 8 minutes).
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Is it just me, or is Jungle Riven going to be even more retarded now? Scary as fuck ganks, and now she can get good farm as well. Welp, I'll just let her carry me until they nerf her.
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On November 30 2011 00:41 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:39 Seuss wrote:On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now. Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g. Small mobs give 1/3rd their old gold value. Large ones are the same and more. Doubles used to give 30 each, and at like 7 minutes I got 33g from the large one and 26 from the small one. Small wraiths give 4g each, big one still gives 35 (I saw 36 at like 8 minutes).
Oh, when you say "small mobs" you don't mean the small camps entirely but only the small wraiths, small wolves etc.?
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On November 30 2011 00:42 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:41 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:39 Seuss wrote:On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now. Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g. Small mobs give 1/3rd their old gold value. Large ones are the same and more. Doubles used to give 30 each, and at like 7 minutes I got 33g from the large one and 26 from the small one. Small wraiths give 4g each, big one still gives 35 (I saw 36 at like 8 minutes). Oh, when you say "small mobs" you don't mean the small camps entirely but only the small wraiths, small wolves etc.?
Jungle camps now all have a large creep which gives you some buff (red, blue, free hp) and some number of small creeps.
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On November 30 2011 00:42 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:41 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:39 Seuss wrote:On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now. Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g. Small mobs give 1/3rd their old gold value. Large ones are the same and more. Doubles used to give 30 each, and at like 7 minutes I got 33g from the large one and 26 from the small one. Small wraiths give 4g each, big one still gives 35 (I saw 36 at like 8 minutes). Oh, when you say "small mobs" you don't mean the small camps entirely but only the small wraiths, small wolves etc.?
Yes.
I just jungled Skarner and wow...I started boots +3, cleared with near full HP. Started blue with a leash. Cleared and was almost level 4, went and took my opponents wolves to hit 4.
A clear like Blue-> Double gols and then wolf steal -> gank top could be viable if your opponent also started blue.
I was level 3 off double golems before top lane was level 3. I was 4 when they hit 3.
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On November 30 2011 00:42 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2011 00:41 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:39 Seuss wrote:On November 30 2011 00:35 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On November 30 2011 00:26 Seuss wrote:
Those of you testing the new jungle, what are the new respawn timers? Small camps are 45 seconds and large camps are the same as far as I know. You receive 1/3rd the gold (atleast at the beginning). Also there are minute xp differences between the clears. One clear I got to lvl 3 with 498/500 xp. Another clear I got to lvl 3 with 500/500 xp. It looks like xp scales up, and the large jungle mob gives the same and more gold while the small ones give less now. edit: with the respawn timers what they are, you can literally spend as much time farming as you want. Now you might have to wait 10 or so second depending on your run speed and clear time, which means you can try counter jungling. The new jungle is actually pretty good. It allows a lot more things now. Pre-remake each small camp gave 62g total on average, so on the first clear the new average is 20g? In the preview it looked more like 47g. Small mobs give 1/3rd their old gold value. Large ones are the same and more. Doubles used to give 30 each, and at like 7 minutes I got 33g from the large one and 26 from the small one. Small wraiths give 4g each, big one still gives 35 (I saw 36 at like 8 minutes). Oh, when you say "small mobs" you don't mean the small camps entirely but only the small wraiths, small wolves etc.?
the smaller creeps in the small camps give signicantly less while the main creep that has the sigil gives around the same amount as before. The money change isnt that significant since they respawn so quickly and are easier to clear that you can make up the money very quickly
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EPT
