EPT[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 15
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:10 Requizen wrote: Wrath was just stupid fun. There wasn't any depth, a lot of the classes/specs got dumbed down, and Blizz started catering to casuals. It got a bit better in Cata, but not enough for me to stay interested in raiding. Once they started removing trash pulls I was wary, and then ToC came out and I laughed. A room where they just threw bosses at you to kill. PUGed that shit on the first day. i always find it weird when people complain about wow getting more casual. Compared to what? The difference between quake or starcraft and wow or lol is already such a gap you can't tell if they move another 10 inches further apart. If you're going to mess around with play-do while other people are building rocket ships, you shouldn't complain that your product has swirly colors to appeal to noobs who like children's toys. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
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Woony
Germany6657 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:10 Requizen wrote: Wrath was just stupid fun. There wasn't any depth, a lot of the classes/specs got dumbed dow Not really, every class/specc got harder to play (especially in PvE in TBC a lot of speccs were 1-button-press). Of course, the content itself got easier but let's face it, TBC sucked pretty damn hard for casuals, you pmuch couldn't see any content after Karazhan. Naxx and ToC were too easy but Ulduar and ICC were tuned really well, pugable to a certain extent but also challenges for the hardcore crowd. (Yogg +0 and Arthas two of the hardest bosses in the game) But holy shit were going offtopic lol | ||
zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:30 Sandster wrote: Phoenix udyr maxes R > W > E > Q (3 in Q vs 3 in E is debatable). 21 offense is pointless as phoenix because you clear so freaking fast anyway, and points 10-20 in offense doesn't do much for him. Meanwhile the health, move speed, damage reduction, and Juggernaut are all insanely good for Udyr for the entire game. For almost every other jungler you have a suboptimal rune/mastery set to clear jungle faster, but Udyr is so fast that you can build him normally. EDIT: points 10-20 gives you crit/lethality, lifesteal, and flat armor pen / AP. None of those stats are are particularly good, since you'd rather have attack speed instead. If you plan on using tiger then yes, 21 offense is the way to go, but phoenix is considered stronger right now in jungle. WTF are you saying dude. Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote: WTF are you saying dude. Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times. Erm...I'm pretty sure top Udyrs like Jatt go R>W>E>Q with 1 in E at 4. The sustain and tankiness W gives is just too good to pass up. You don't really get W so you can sustain in jungle, you get it because a 200+hp shield every 3-5 seconds is ridiculously strong for you durability. Also, getting Wriggles on Phoenix Udyr isn't necessarily core. I know Jatt never gets Wriggles on Phoenix Udyr except in edge cases. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
I go rerw in that order it takes a long time before i take a point in q, and i max r then e then w unless I think i need the tankiness in which case I probably max w before e | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote: WTF are you saying dude. Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times. Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:01 Sandster wrote: What's the 13 in utility for? I was thinking of something like 9/10/9 + 2, like http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-2-4-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-2-2-4-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-2-0-1-4-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0 I don't get skipping Def. mastery. for extra health. Isn't the added gold worth it? Also what about the new Greed? | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:46 TheYango wrote: Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights. This. The diminishing return on e makes it not nearly as worthwhile as w, and q is useless since it doesnt scale with any items you are going to get. The "correct" (read high elo) way to play phoenix udyr is R>W>E>Q. | ||
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Hakker
United States1360 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:50 Two_DoWn wrote: This. The diminishing return on e makes it not nearly as worthwhile as w, and q is useless since it doesnt scale with any items you are going to get. The "correct" (read high elo) way to play phoenix udyr is R>W>E>Q. ^ Also - Wriggle is almost entirely pointless, and simply delays your REAL farm item (wit's end). You will rarely have time to switch between R/Q in late game. You are one of the tanks for your team, and need to use bear every few seconds to stun, so more likely than not you'll swap between R/W/E. If you have time to swap R/Q/E then you probably aren't doing your job and your carries are getting crushed (or you're ahead so much it doesn't matter). | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
i always find it weird when people complain about wow getting more casual. Compared to what? The difference between quake or starcraft and wow or lol is already such a gap you can't tell if they move another 10 inches further apart. If you're going to mess around with play-do while other people are building rocket ships, you shouldn't complain that your product has swirly colors to appeal to noobs who like children's toys. Well, not to be "that guy", but casual compared to itself. Vanilla and BC, you had to work hard to raid. I mean like, devoting hours upon hours to get to the entry level raid. There was keying for raids, grinding reps (which took waaaay the fuck longer than it does now), and actual levels of gear before raiding (dungeon sets, .5 tier sets, etc). A friend played in Vanilla and I started in BC. I didn't see the Eye or SSC in my months playing before Wrath, you HAD to grind dungeons for rep gear (bear tank running SSC 5-mans for Earthwarden), you HAD to full clear Kara (which was bloody long) multiple times, and you HAD to do Gruul and Mag for chances at gear. In Wrath? I had a Mage alt that hit 85 when Icecrown Raid came out, and I hit the ICC 5-mans for a week. I downed every boss but Arthas with him the next week or so. He hasn't even run Naxx or Ulduar. Purely Rep gear (which I was exalted through leveling, natch), badge gear, and quest gear. Not the same level of time dedication and what not. It's not a bad thing, lowering that "entry fee", but it was reaaallllyyyy low in Wrath. It's a bit higher in Cata, but not like it was before. Not really, every class/specc got harder to play (especially in PvE in TBC a lot of speccs were 1-button-press). Of course, the content itself got easier but let's face it, TBC sucked pretty damn hard for casuals, you pmuch couldn't see any content after Karazhan. Naxx and ToC were too easy but Ulduar and ICC were tuned really well, pugable to a certain extent but also challenges for the hardcore crowd. (Yogg +0 and Arthas two of the hardest bosses in the game) But holy shit were going offtopic lol Eh, as someone who played a Ret Paladin and Arc Mage, it was pretty easy. The only "hard" thing about a lot of classes was that they removed the ability for macros and addons to play the class for you. Most specs went to "hit these three buttons in order unless this other one procs", which isn't that hard. Ulduar was fun, but everything up to heroic guardians and normal Yogg were pretty easy. FL could be outgeared by 5-mans, and the other 3 in the entryway could be brute-forced in some regards. Most pugs with a random Vent could do most of it. ICC was only hard with the wing bosses (Putricide, Blood Queen and Sindragosa) and Arthas. The rest was pretty manageable as long as you didn't stand in fire. And lol Lootship, a heroic that was easier than the first boss in there. I sound harsh, I know, but a lot of it wasn't that challenging after a couple weeks after release. Doesn't help that ICC was the "top tier" of raiding for like, 6 months and people outgeared it after one. ---- Back on topic: Surge on Kog'Maw? I think it could be legit, AP helping Bio-Arcane a bit and Attack Speed on Kog being, well, Attack Speed on Kog. With the Exhaust and Flash nerfs, I think it could be a viable choice. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:56 Sandster wrote: ^ Also - Wriggle is almost entirely pointless, and simply delays your REAL farm item (wit's end). You will rarely have time to switch between R/Q in late game. You are one of the tanks for your team, and need to use bear every few seconds to stun, so more likely than not you'll swap between R/W/E. If you have time to swap R/Q/E then you probably aren't doing your job and your carries are getting crushed (or you're ahead so much it doesn't matter). Iunno I find with Frozen Heart and Randuins + masteries I have pretty much cap cdr. Which means that I can fit in 2-3 stance switches before the internal Bear stance stun cooldown refreshes. This means I can go E then switch to R/W/Q before switching back to E. Personally I like Q max over E max since E has diminishing returns, while Q max active gives more aspd, which is good for your phoenix stance, and also increases the Q nuke. I just like that extra bit of damage more than 1 second of movespeed boost. @ Req: Surge on Kog is bad imo. The AP you get from Surge, even at max level, isn't nearly enough for the additional damage added to Kog's skills to be worth it. His AP scaling is pretty bad. Not to mention he already has like 2.0+ attack speed with a PD and his Q passive. Surge isn't worth it especially since he needs as many get-out-of-jail skills he can get 'cause he has no innate escape. Exhaust/Ghost/Cleanse are too important for him imo. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying? Super fun. My friend and I are playing around with jungle Fizz. Seems iffy, but doable. He's pretty strong mid. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
@ Req: Surge on Kog is bad imo. The AP you get from Surge, even at max level, isn't nearly enough for the additional damage added to Kog's skills to be worth it. His AP scaling is pretty bad. Not to mention he already has like 2.0+ attack speed with a PD and his Q passive. Surge isn't worth it especially since he needs as many get-out-of-jail skills he can get 'cause he has no innate escape. Exhaust/Ghost/Cleanse are too important for him imo. Yeah, probably Cleanse then. Exhaust still doesn't seem that great on him, imo. I just kind of figured 35% attack speed on him (or any other ranged AD, for that matter), might be worth it, but yeah he needs more escapes. | ||
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Theoren
Canada810 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying? Maybe it's just me but he seems really really strong, like Graves on release strong. | ||
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