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[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 15

Forum Index > LoL General
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Want to rage about your latest loss?
Use the QQ thread.
If you whine in GD, you'll get warned.
Sabin010
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1892 Posts
November 15 2011 19:24 GMT
#281
1100 is pretty high elo imho
Brees
Profile Joined January 2010
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
November 15 2011 19:33 GMT
#282
riven is absurdly broken top lane now. perm ban eventually.
Brees on in
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
November 15 2011 19:34 GMT
#283
On November 16 2011 03:10 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 02:58 Woony wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:54 NotSorry wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
So a quote from muffinqt on West's stream sums this whole thing quite nicely:

"League of Legends: Cataclysm"



As long as it's not "League of Legends: Wrath of the Lich King" we're still okay


Wrath was better than Cata. Not because Cata was worse design wise but at the point after lich king no matter what they'd add it would just make the game more fucked. There's only so much shit you can add to a game until it becomes stupid.

Wrath was just stupid fun. There wasn't any depth, a lot of the classes/specs got dumbed down, and Blizz started catering to casuals. It got a bit better in Cata, but not enough for me to stay interested in raiding. Once they started removing trash pulls I was wary, and then ToC came out and I laughed. A room where they just threw bosses at you to kill. PUGed that shit on the first day.

i always find it weird when people complain about wow getting more casual. Compared to what? The difference between quake or starcraft and wow or lol is already such a gap you can't tell if they move another 10 inches further apart. If you're going to mess around with play-do while other people are building rocket ships, you shouldn't complain that your product has swirly colors to appeal to noobs who like children's toys.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
November 15 2011 19:35 GMT
#284
Does anyone know if Fizz's W passive or active applies rylais?
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 19:37:37
November 15 2011 19:35 GMT
#285
On November 16 2011 03:10 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 02:58 Woony wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:54 NotSorry wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
So a quote from muffinqt on West's stream sums this whole thing quite nicely:

"League of Legends: Cataclysm"



As long as it's not "League of Legends: Wrath of the Lich King" we're still okay


Wrath was better than Cata. Not because Cata was worse design wise but at the point after lich king no matter what they'd add it would just make the game more fucked. There's only so much shit you can add to a game until it becomes stupid.

Wrath was just stupid fun. There wasn't any depth, a lot of the classes/specs got dumbed dow


Not really, every class/specc got harder to play (especially in PvE in TBC a lot of speccs were 1-button-press). Of course, the content itself got easier but let's face it, TBC sucked pretty damn hard for casuals, you pmuch couldn't see any content after Karazhan. Naxx and ToC were too easy but Ulduar and ICC were tuned really well, pugable to a certain extent but also challenges for the hardcore crowd. (Yogg +0 and Arthas two of the hardest bosses in the game)

But holy shit were going offtopic lol
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
November 15 2011 19:38 GMT
#286
what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying?
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
November 15 2011 19:41 GMT
#287
On November 16 2011 03:30 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 03:22 Iplaythings wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:55 Slayer91 wrote:
On November 16 2011 00:32 Iplaythings wrote:
On November 16 2011 00:28 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
What does everyone think of these Masteries setups?

Sustaining Top: 0/21/9 < - get everything that gives regen
AP Carry: 21/0/9 <- XD dat Annie burst! Get runic mastery on utility to extend the duration of blue.
Support: 8/0/22 <- Mental Force + Sorcery on Offense
AD Carry: 24/6/0
Sustaining Jungle: 0/21/9 <- Most Junglers should take this
Ganking Jungle: 21/0/9 <- Shaco must run this. Other junglers run this if the team is weak in the early game or the other team is super strong early.

Dont see why you'd run 0/21/9 on any jungler other than amumu tbh..

All benefit soo much from the old 21/0/9, doubt that's gonna change


Udyr. Rammus. Possibly Skarner. You'd never ever want to go 21 offense on pheonix udyr and rammus and skarner is debateable.
Prepatch pheonix udyr with mostly utility spec and movement quints clears full jungle in 3:20, and all the offense masteries suck o him. Tiger udyr is a different story though. Rammus I'm not sure about because just getting spiked shell and going 21 offense might be interesting in the wriggles builds. But juggernaught veteran scars and even mercenary are all really nice when you're going warmogs as well.

I'm talking about tiger udyr since i haven't played phoenix in ages, maybe I should try it out, do people still only get 3 points in phoenix as a norm for the early game?
I can't not see it justified to run 21 offense, you're like the old udyr which levels faster than solo lanes as long as you have jungle to clear.
Skarner is debatable, I'd say it depends on what runes you're running and who your opposing jungler is (as if, the more offensive jungler the more defensive you build skarner).


Phoenix udyr maxes R > W > E > Q (3 in Q vs 3 in E is debatable). 21 offense is pointless as phoenix because you clear so freaking fast anyway, and points 10-20 in offense doesn't do much for him. Meanwhile the health, move speed, damage reduction, and Juggernaut are all insanely good for Udyr for the entire game.

For almost every other jungler you have a suboptimal rune/mastery set to clear jungle faster, but Udyr is so fast that you can build him normally.

EDIT: points 10-20 gives you crit/lethality, lifesteal, and flat armor pen / AP. None of those stats are are particularly good, since you'd rather have attack speed instead. If you plan on using tiger then yes, 21 offense is the way to go, but phoenix is considered stronger right now in jungle.

WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.
The legend of Darien lives on
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 19:48:07
November 15 2011 19:43 GMT
#288
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 03:30 Sandster wrote:
On November 16 2011 03:22 Iplaythings wrote:
On November 16 2011 02:55 Slayer91 wrote:
On November 16 2011 00:32 Iplaythings wrote:
On November 16 2011 00:28 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
What does everyone think of these Masteries setups?

Sustaining Top: 0/21/9 < - get everything that gives regen
AP Carry: 21/0/9 <- XD dat Annie burst! Get runic mastery on utility to extend the duration of blue.
Support: 8/0/22 <- Mental Force + Sorcery on Offense
AD Carry: 24/6/0
Sustaining Jungle: 0/21/9 <- Most Junglers should take this
Ganking Jungle: 21/0/9 <- Shaco must run this. Other junglers run this if the team is weak in the early game or the other team is super strong early.

Dont see why you'd run 0/21/9 on any jungler other than amumu tbh..

All benefit soo much from the old 21/0/9, doubt that's gonna change


Udyr. Rammus. Possibly Skarner. You'd never ever want to go 21 offense on pheonix udyr and rammus and skarner is debateable.
Prepatch pheonix udyr with mostly utility spec and movement quints clears full jungle in 3:20, and all the offense masteries suck o him. Tiger udyr is a different story though. Rammus I'm not sure about because just getting spiked shell and going 21 offense might be interesting in the wriggles builds. But juggernaught veteran scars and even mercenary are all really nice when you're going warmogs as well.

I'm talking about tiger udyr since i haven't played phoenix in ages, maybe I should try it out, do people still only get 3 points in phoenix as a norm for the early game?
I can't not see it justified to run 21 offense, you're like the old udyr which levels faster than solo lanes as long as you have jungle to clear.
Skarner is debatable, I'd say it depends on what runes you're running and who your opposing jungler is (as if, the more offensive jungler the more defensive you build skarner).


Phoenix udyr maxes R > W > E > Q (3 in Q vs 3 in E is debatable). 21 offense is pointless as phoenix because you clear so freaking fast anyway, and points 10-20 in offense doesn't do much for him. Meanwhile the health, move speed, damage reduction, and Juggernaut are all insanely good for Udyr for the entire game.

For almost every other jungler you have a suboptimal rune/mastery set to clear jungle faster, but Udyr is so fast that you can build him normally.

EDIT: points 10-20 gives you crit/lethality, lifesteal, and flat armor pen / AP. None of those stats are are particularly good, since you'd rather have attack speed instead. If you plan on using tiger then yes, 21 offense is the way to go, but phoenix is considered stronger right now in jungle.

WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.

Erm...I'm pretty sure top Udyrs like Jatt go R>W>E>Q with 1 in E at 4. The sustain and tankiness W gives is just too good to pass up. You don't really get W so you can sustain in jungle, you get it because a 200+hp shield every 3-5 seconds is ridiculously strong for you durability. Also, getting Wriggles on Phoenix Udyr isn't necessarily core. I know Jatt never gets Wriggles on Phoenix Udyr except in edge cases.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
November 15 2011 19:45 GMT
#289
Apparently everyone has differing opinions on phoenix udyr.

I go rerw in that order

it takes a long time before i take a point in q, and i max r then e then w unless I think i need the tankiness in which case I probably max w before e
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 15 2011 19:46 GMT
#290
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote:
WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.

Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights.
Moderator
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
November 15 2011 19:48 GMT
#291
On November 16 2011 04:01 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 03:37 yenta wrote:
On November 16 2011 03:26 yenta wrote:
The new masteries are really really strong. Offensive tree feels so powerful on any sort of carry.


Also 7/10/13 on a jungler, like Ehome's gp in the scrim vs TSM, gives a super fast clear... with enough health to gank w/o backing.


What's the 13 in utility for? I was thinking of something like 9/10/9 + 2, like http://thefwcentral.com/lol/#&trees=0-3-0-2-4-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-2-2-4-0-0-1-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-2-0-1-4-0-1-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0


I don't get skipping Def. mastery. for extra health. Isn't the added gold worth it? Also what about the new Greed?
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
November 15 2011 19:50 GMT
#292
On November 16 2011 04:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote:
WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.

Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights.

This. The diminishing return on e makes it not nearly as worthwhile as w, and q is useless since it doesnt scale with any items you are going to get. The "correct" (read high elo) way to play phoenix udyr is R>W>E>Q.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Hakker
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1360 Posts
November 15 2011 19:51 GMT
#293
Why would ashe not be viable lol
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
November 15 2011 19:56 GMT
#294
On November 16 2011 04:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 04:46 TheYango wrote:
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote:
WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.

Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights.

This. The diminishing return on e makes it not nearly as worthwhile as w, and q is useless since it doesnt scale with any items you are going to get. The "correct" (read high elo) way to play phoenix udyr is R>W>E>Q.



^

Also -

Wriggle is almost entirely pointless, and simply delays your REAL farm item (wit's end).

You will rarely have time to switch between R/Q in late game. You are one of the tanks for your team, and need to use bear every few seconds to stun, so more likely than not you'll swap between R/W/E. If you have time to swap R/Q/E then you probably aren't doing your job and your carries are getting crushed (or you're ahead so much it doesn't matter).
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 15 2011 20:01 GMT
#295
i always find it weird when people complain about wow getting more casual. Compared to what? The difference between quake or starcraft and wow or lol is already such a gap you can't tell if they move another 10 inches further apart. If you're going to mess around with play-do while other people are building rocket ships, you shouldn't complain that your product has swirly colors to appeal to noobs who like children's toys.


Well, not to be "that guy", but casual compared to itself. Vanilla and BC, you had to work hard to raid. I mean like, devoting hours upon hours to get to the entry level raid. There was keying for raids, grinding reps (which took waaaay the fuck longer than it does now), and actual levels of gear before raiding (dungeon sets, .5 tier sets, etc). A friend played in Vanilla and I started in BC. I didn't see the Eye or SSC in my months playing before Wrath, you HAD to grind dungeons for rep gear (bear tank running SSC 5-mans for Earthwarden), you HAD to full clear Kara (which was bloody long) multiple times, and you HAD to do Gruul and Mag for chances at gear.

In Wrath? I had a Mage alt that hit 85 when Icecrown Raid came out, and I hit the ICC 5-mans for a week. I downed every boss but Arthas with him the next week or so. He hasn't even run Naxx or Ulduar. Purely Rep gear (which I was exalted through leveling, natch), badge gear, and quest gear. Not the same level of time dedication and what not.

It's not a bad thing, lowering that "entry fee", but it was reaaallllyyyy low in Wrath. It's a bit higher in Cata, but not like it was before.

Not really, every class/specc got harder to play (especially in PvE in TBC a lot of speccs were 1-button-press). Of course, the content itself got easier but let's face it, TBC sucked pretty damn hard for casuals, you pmuch couldn't see any content after Karazhan. Naxx and ToC were too easy but Ulduar and ICC were tuned really well, pugable to a certain extent but also challenges for the hardcore crowd. (Yogg +0 and Arthas two of the hardest bosses in the game)

But holy shit were going offtopic lol

Eh, as someone who played a Ret Paladin and Arc Mage, it was pretty easy. The only "hard" thing about a lot of classes was that they removed the ability for macros and addons to play the class for you. Most specs went to "hit these three buttons in order unless this other one procs", which isn't that hard.

Ulduar was fun, but everything up to heroic guardians and normal Yogg were pretty easy. FL could be outgeared by 5-mans, and the other 3 in the entryway could be brute-forced in some regards. Most pugs with a random Vent could do most of it. ICC was only hard with the wing bosses (Putricide, Blood Queen and Sindragosa) and Arthas. The rest was pretty manageable as long as you didn't stand in fire. And lol Lootship, a heroic that was easier than the first boss in there.

I sound harsh, I know, but a lot of it wasn't that challenging after a couple weeks after release. Doesn't help that ICC was the "top tier" of raiding for like, 6 months and people outgeared it after one.

----

Back on topic: Surge on Kog'Maw? I think it could be legit, AP helping Bio-Arcane a bit and Attack Speed on Kog being, well, Attack Speed on Kog. With the Exhaust and Flash nerfs, I think it could be a viable choice.
It's your boy Guzma!
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 20:04:33
November 15 2011 20:02 GMT
#296
On November 16 2011 04:56 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2011 04:50 Two_DoWn wrote:
On November 16 2011 04:46 TheYango wrote:
On November 16 2011 04:41 mr_tolkien wrote:
WTF are you saying dude.

Phœnix Udyr maxes R > E > Q > W, with 1 point in W at lvl2. Phœnix Udyr doesn't even need sustain in the jungle, just begin cloth 5 pots and with this 5 pots you can stay long enough in the jungle to buy your Wriggle XD

Late game Phœnix Udyr switching betwee R and Q lvl 5 is just craze, and ganks are WAY more powerful with E. As well as faster clear times.

Jatt, SV, and Oddone all verifiably go R>W>E>Q. W isn't about the sustainability, it's about the fact that it's a retarded amount of free HP in teamfights.

This. The diminishing return on e makes it not nearly as worthwhile as w, and q is useless since it doesnt scale with any items you are going to get. The "correct" (read high elo) way to play phoenix udyr is R>W>E>Q.



^

Also -

Wriggle is almost entirely pointless, and simply delays your REAL farm item (wit's end).

You will rarely have time to switch between R/Q in late game. You are one of the tanks for your team, and need to use bear every few seconds to stun, so more likely than not you'll swap between R/W/E. If you have time to swap R/Q/E then you probably aren't doing your job and your carries are getting crushed (or you're ahead so much it doesn't matter).

Iunno I find with Frozen Heart and Randuins + masteries I have pretty much cap cdr. Which means that I can fit in 2-3 stance switches before the internal Bear stance stun cooldown refreshes. This means I can go E then switch to R/W/Q before switching back to E.

Personally I like Q max over E max since E has diminishing returns, while Q max active gives more aspd, which is good for your phoenix stance, and also increases the Q nuke. I just like that extra bit of damage more than 1 second of movespeed boost.

@ Req:
Surge on Kog is bad imo. The AP you get from Surge, even at max level, isn't nearly enough for the additional damage added to Kog's skills to be worth it. His AP scaling is pretty bad. Not to mention he already has like 2.0+ attack speed with a PD and his Q passive. Surge isn't worth it especially since he needs as many get-out-of-jail skills he can get 'cause he has no innate escape. Exhaust/Ghost/Cleanse are too important for him imo.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
November 15 2011 20:06 GMT
#297
On November 16 2011 04:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying?


Super fun. My friend and I are playing around with jungle Fizz. Seems iffy, but doable. He's pretty strong mid.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
November 15 2011 20:09 GMT
#298
With udyr you want to be mashing on w-e then entire fight. R is great if you can fit it in, but your job isnt to kill shit. Its to stun their entire team (primary goal) and stay alive long enough to stun their entire team. I have a VERY hard time believing that in end game fights anyone is either strong enough to not have to hit w (in which case the game should be over anyway) in order to spam r, let alone even q.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
November 15 2011 20:10 GMT
#299

@ Req:
Surge on Kog is bad imo. The AP you get from Surge, even at max level, isn't nearly enough for the additional damage added to Kog's skills to be worth it. His AP scaling is pretty bad. Not to mention he already has like 2.0+ attack speed with a PD and his Q passive. Surge isn't worth it especially since he needs as many get-out-of-jail skills he can get 'cause he has no innate escape. Exhaust/Ghost/Cleanse are too important for him imo.


Yeah, probably Cleanse then. Exhaust still doesn't seem that great on him, imo. I just kind of figured 35% attack speed on him (or any other ranged AD, for that matter), might be worth it, but yeah he needs more escapes.
It's your boy Guzma!
Theoren
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada810 Posts
November 15 2011 20:12 GMT
#300
On November 16 2011 04:38 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying?


Maybe it's just me but he seems really really strong, like Graves on release strong.
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