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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 16 2011 02:24 luckybeni2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. If I remember correctly almost all games I have seen of pro teams have her banned. I dont think her problem was a "low elo" one because from level 6 on it was impossible to escape and very hard to 1v1 her. She did incredible damage and had her growing spellvamp to fill her life back up so fast and she could go under her shroud to become invisible and recharge her q. Maybe she got nerfed too hard but to say she didnt need one doesnt seem right.
She's pretty much perma banned against teams with a notable Akali player (like Scarra, Westrice). I personally think Akali and Kassadin are (were?) bullshit champions that had serious design flaws in how they worked, which is why they're so good in pro games. (No champion should heal themselves for their entire HP bar in one round of burst with 1 item, and no champion should come out of laning phase down 55 cs to 110 and still be able to carry a game.) But they absolutely WRECK lower ELOs. They are champions that are much easier to play than play against correctly, so they naturally will dominate at lower ELO.
I personally used to lane against Akali all the time, just because I can't risk a random guy laning against her and feeding. It sucks because Akali is a cool champion, but she really does grief unorganized teams (and teams without proper peels and focus).
Sion currently falls in this category as well. One change they can potentially do is to rework his shield to blow up for damage based on how much remaining damage it can absorb, instead of 100% every time. (Of course compensated for in other ways.)
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On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it.
I saw the Akali nerf and wanted to quote this post I read in our last GD, but basically the guy said Riot said they wouldn't change Akali and they do it in the next patch.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281369¤tpage=155#3100
Kassadin recieved an overbuff a few patches ago and the un-buff should put him in line with similar champions. Akali was in the class of old morde in the sense that she could spam her abilities never run out of mana and had too much sustain. I do think they went a little too far though. People who knew how to beat her never had problems facing her to begin with, and now she's going to be even harder to play.
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On November 16 2011 02:24 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 18:24 Vibes wrote:
Save Influence Points for weeks to buy Akali and Akali Runes.
Finally buy her.
See her nerfed the next day.
FML. Did that with Noc yesterday lol a few hours before patch notes came out
Noct is still a jesus jungler. Jumping over wards = OP
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Fuck Fizz' move that makes him untargetable that thing is so bloody annoying.
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On November 16 2011 02:36 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it. I saw the Akali nerf and wanted to quote this post I read in our last GD, but basically the guy said Riot said they wouldn't change Akali and they do it in the next patch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281369¤tpage=155#3100Kassadin recieved an overbuff a few patches ago and the un-buff should put him in line with similar champions. Akali was in the class of old morde in the sense that she could spam her abilities never run out of mana and had too much sustain. I do think they went a little too far though. People who knew how to beat her never had problems facing her to begin with, and now she's going to be even harder to play.
Kassadin was not overbuffed at all. Except against people who refused to send anything other than burst casters against him.
Pretty much any champion with a ranged autoattack beats Kass in lane assuming he specs his runes/masteries correctly (yes that includes several burst casters). Cait already crushed Kass hard, now she wins like 5 times harder.
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For bot lane, the patch placed additional premiums on champions with high mobility, and also a bit with early game burst. This means that Ezreal and Tristana, who are already two of the stronger AD carries, are going to be EVERYWHERE.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:36 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it. I saw the Akali nerf and wanted to quote this post I read in our last GD, but basically the guy said Riot said they wouldn't change Akali and they do it in the next patch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281369¤tpage=155#3100Kassadin recieved an overbuff a few patches ago and the un-buff should put him in line with similar champions. Akali was in the class of old morde in the sense that she could spam her abilities never run out of mana and had too much sustain. I do think they went a little too far though. People who knew how to beat her never had problems facing her to begin with, and now she's going to be even harder to play.
Even if you thought Kass got overbuffed, why the fuck would they not just revert the change that they overbuffed him with, rather than completely crushing the only part of his kit that made solo laning with him possible?
And yes, spines is right, IMO. The only reason you'd think Kassadin was OP in lane is if you're too closed-minded to swap your AD and AP carries between mid and bot, knowing full well that ANY AD carry gets free-farm vs. Kassadin. All a change like this does is validate people's closed-mindedness, rather than rewarding actual insight into how Kassadin works as a champion to counter him.
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On November 16 2011 02:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
So a quote from muffinqt on West's stream sums this whole thing quite nicely:
"League of Legends: Cataclysm"
As long as it's not "League of Legends: Wrath of the Lich King" we're still okay
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On November 16 2011 00:32 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:28 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
What does everyone think of these Masteries setups?
Sustaining Top: 0/21/9 < - get everything that gives regen
AP Carry: 21/0/9 <- XD dat Annie burst! Get runic mastery on utility to extend the duration of blue.
Support: 8/0/22 <- Mental Force + Sorcery on Offense
AD Carry: 24/6/0
Sustaining Jungle: 0/21/9 <- Most Junglers should take this
Ganking Jungle: 21/0/9 <- Shaco must run this. Other junglers run this if the team is weak in the early game or the other team is super strong early. Dont see why you'd run 0/21/9 on any jungler other than amumu tbh.. All benefit soo much from the old 21/0/9, doubt that's gonna change
Udyr. Rammus. Possibly Skarner. You'd never ever want to go 21 offense on pheonix udyr and rammus and skarner is debateable.
Prepatch pheonix udyr with mostly utility spec and movement quints clears full jungle in 3:20, and all the offense masteries suck o him. Tiger udyr is a different story though. Rammus I'm not sure about because just getting spiked shell and going 21 offense might be interesting in the wriggles builds. But juggernaught veteran scars and even mercenary are all really nice when you're going warmogs as well.
On November 16 2011 02:18 RoieTRS wrote:
lol
below 1500 is low elo?
1800 is still low elo
please quit kidding yourselves.
I'm around the top 100 at 1900 on EU west so statistically calling 1800 low elo is way off. I think 99.9% of players are probably below 1800 so technically 1800+ is like the elite if we are looking from a game design perspective Especially when we're talking about champions like yi tryndamere and xin. it's ridiculous to say that they are good around 1500, we're talking below 1200 where they're getting stompy.
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On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it.
I was talking about Blizzard. But yeah, Riot does that too. Xin is sorta the equivalent to a bunker rush or cannonrushing or reaper/ling in 2v2 a while ago. Very easy to execute and extremly high reward with low risk against players that are not competent against the strategy.
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On November 16 2011 02:24 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 18:24 Vibes wrote:
Save Influence Points for weeks to buy Akali and Akali Runes.
Finally buy her.
See her nerfed the next day.
FML. Did that with Noc yesterday lol a few hours before patch notes came out
Did that with Jarvan.
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Screw Kassadin, time to play Leblonk and insta-kill anyone who doesn't spec into defense tree. Ignite being cleansable is annoying but I don't think too many people will take it on their AP mid at first.
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On November 16 2011 02:54 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
So a quote from muffinqt on West's stream sums this whole thing quite nicely:
"League of Legends: Cataclysm" As long as it's not "League of Legends: Wrath of the Lich King" we're still okay
Wrath was better than Cata. Not because Cata was worse design wise but at the point after lich king no matter what they'd add it would just make the game more fucked. There's only so much shit you can add to a game until it becomes stupid.
On November 16 2011 02:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:36 Sabin010 wrote:On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it. I saw the Akali nerf and wanted to quote this post I read in our last GD, but basically the guy said Riot said they wouldn't change Akali and they do it in the next patch. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281369¤tpage=155#3100Kassadin recieved an overbuff a few patches ago and the un-buff should put him in line with similar champions. Akali was in the class of old morde in the sense that she could spam her abilities never run out of mana and had too much sustain. I do think they went a little too far though. People who knew how to beat her never had problems facing her to begin with, and now she's going to be even harder to play. Even if you thought Kass got overbuffed, why the fuck would they not just revert the change that they overbuffed him with, rather than completely crushing the only part of his kit that made solo laning with him possible? And yes, spines is right, IMO. The only reason you'd think Kassadin was OP in lane is if you're too closed-minded to swap your AD and AP carries between mid and bot, knowing full well that ANY AD carry gets free-farm vs. Kassadin. All a change like this does is validate people's closed-mindedness, rather than rewarding actual insight into how Kassadin works as a champion to counter him.
95% of the people in soloqueue are not competent enough to do that. And even if you want to do it you're relying on your team to (1) letting you swap (omg brand go mid or me afk) (2) the ad/ap carry/support can play the matchup accordinly (ad carry never harasses kass, bot just gets raped etc.)
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Still no megaman ezreal makes me sad, because its definitely time to pull out the old cleanse/ghost build
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It's "hilarious" that you guys think Kassadin is suddenly not viable because his Q range was slightly nerfed.
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Trist & orianna buffs
Akali nerf
THERE IS A GOD AND IT IS A GOOD GOD.
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On November 16 2011 03:03 Craton wrote:
It's "hilarious" that you guys think Kassadin is suddenly not viable because his Q range was slightly nerfed.
Given that the entirety of his lane power was based off his ability to throw a Q and not have to trade in the process, no, its not hilarious.
The hero has nothing going for him in lane if he needs to trade with Q until 6, and if his lane opponent has had freefarm until that point, you can bet that their super early catalyst is going to stomp all over whatever shenanigans kass can pull out alone with r until level 9ish.
So basically mid becomes a shitty pariah lane that's forced to capitalize on the strength of kass's req to help jungle ganks instead of actually being threatening on its own.
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On November 16 2011 02:18 RoieTRS wrote:
lol
below 1500 is low elo?
1800 is still low elo
please quit kidding yourselves.
brag more plz
On November 16 2011 02:11 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:08 Woony wrote:On November 16 2011 02:01 Comprissent wrote:On November 16 2011 01:46 Sandster wrote:On November 16 2011 01:42 Comprissent wrote:
MALPHITE BUFFS FUCK YEAH
Odd to see riot would nerf akali/kass when they are mostly just problems at low ELO play "Low ELO" as in below 1500, which constitutes the vast majority of players. I'd say it's pretty smart given how much grief those guys cause when they snowball. Same can be said for balancing stuff for diamond sc2 players, it's the vast majority of players there and below... and blizzard doesn't do that Yes, they do lol. Not to the biggest extend but if a certain thing is way broken against low level players, they'll nerf it. e.g. Xin Zhao Made absolutely no fk sense why he got a nerf about 5+ patches ago but apparently Xin is a terror at low elo and I can kinda imagine it.
So true LOL i played with my 1000 elo friend and he would just play xz and I'd play some top lane (lol i'm bad) and we'd stomp every game. It probably still works, too.
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On November 16 2011 02:22 MoonBear wrote:
One of the problems with champions that complete destroy low Elo but are still ok at higher Elo is that it creates a stagnation in the gameplay. There is also the problem that in order to be able to learn and get better, there needs to be a way for you to be able to respond to the threat. If the answer to the threat is "rely on someone else", this is ok for higher levels of play, but creates a negative experience at lower levels of play. Of course, this means the person in question has to want to get better, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible for them to figure out what went wrong.
Pre-nerf Eve is the epitome of this problem. Being able to stun, do damage all while stealthed at lower levels of play causes a lot of problems. This is partially due to the fact the tutorial, while explaining concepts such as last hitting, never actually talks about stealth, wards and oracles. In a MOBA style game, there is already a large "burden of knowledge" on players to know about all the mechanics, matchups, champion details, etc. However, for a newer player, what is most important is that whatever is killing them has an obvious answer. For example: Bush + Garen = Ow, therefore don't facecheck. Other examples include Tower = Big and Scary, therefore don't fight it 1v1. The tutorial even has a small section on this. It does not however cover stealth mechanics.
There also leads to the problem where abusive strategies can eventually lead up to higher levels. Gunblade-Burst-the-carry-ASAP-Morde was one instance of this. While commonly considered a low Elo phenomenon, this was more because the consideration of "yeah but just don't fight in the creep wave" was too commonly used while glossing over many other aspects of Morde. While there is truth that lower Elo players respond sub-optimally to these problems, that does not necessarily mean that there is not an inherent problem to begin with. The current rise in Tryndamere popularity after his remake is another case where slowly a careful examination of what causes him to be a problem beyond the superficial low Elo problems suggests a much stronger power level than previously considered.
TL;DR
If people die and don't know what happened, they aren't even given the chance to learn. Also, abuse cases in lower Elo can also mask deeper problems with champions that have not been fully considered.
Cool, but this doesnt exactly fit with kass. You want to learn how to get better and beat him? PLAY A FUCKING RANGED CARRY MID. But people at low elo dont do this, and then they whining starts.
There is a VERY bad problem where the majority of the playerbase expects to be able to play their champion where they want in all scenarios against all comers, and then start bitching when they run into counters and call for nerfs. That is NOT helping people get better. Its helping them stay bad.
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On November 16 2011 02:58 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:54 NotSorry wrote:On November 16 2011 02:02 Two_DoWn wrote:
So a quote from muffinqt on West's stream sums this whole thing quite nicely:
"League of Legends: Cataclysm" As long as it's not "League of Legends: Wrath of the Lich King" we're still okay Wrath was better than Cata. Not because Cata was worse design wise but at the point after lich king no matter what they'd add it would just make the game more fucked. There's only so much shit you can add to a game until it becomes stupid.
Wrath was just stupid fun. There wasn't any depth, a lot of the classes/specs got dumbed down, and Blizz started catering to casuals. It got a bit better in Cata, but not enough for me to stay interested in raiding. Once they started removing trash pulls I was wary, and then ToC came out and I laughed. A room where they just threw bosses at you to kill. PUGed that shit on the first day.
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EPT
