EPTIf your job is to protect against only 1 person diving your carry, and you E -> Q -> R then I can understand that, but generally Udyr is on the front lines and you will use W on cd and E to stun as many people as you can, and if you have extra time R to proc the phoenix aoe. I personally don't get Frozen Heart but yes, FH+spirit visage gets you close to CDR capped if you go that route. I just feel Frozen Heart is stronger on a lot of other champions, and you're better off getting thornmail for armor, or phage/triforce for damage at that point.
[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 16
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
If your job is to protect against only 1 person diving your carry, and you E -> Q -> R then I can understand that, but generally Udyr is on the front lines and you will use W on cd and E to stun as many people as you can, and if you have extra time R to proc the phoenix aoe. I personally don't get Frozen Heart but yes, FH+spirit visage gets you close to CDR capped if you go that route. I just feel Frozen Heart is stronger on a lot of other champions, and you're better off getting thornmail for armor, or phage/triforce for damage at that point. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:12 Theoren wrote: Maybe it's just me but he seems really really strong, like Graves on release strong. Well, he's an Akali/Talon/Kass style assassin. He's kinda-sorta squishy with an escape/damage avoider, and has high burst. He's going to rock some champs (mostly squishy mage types), but not do crap against others (hello Galio). If you play a squishy, he's going to feel hard to play against, especially if you're an immobile type, since he technically has 2 mobility spells and a strong ranged nuke. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: what's the verdict on fizz? worth buying? well he's extremely fking cute and his ult is a shark so he's worth buying as for combat power, i've seen him played suboptimally in a duo bot lane and get crushed by a morgana mid so i dunno what i think about his fighting skills | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:06 jcarlsoniv wrote: Super fun. My friend and I are playing around with jungle Fizz. Seems iffy, but doable. He's pretty strong mid. saintvicious is currently playing jungle fizz on his stream. Wits End seems to be pretty awesome on him. He is planing to skip wriggels next game and just go Wits End into Warmogs and Bloodrazor or something. Reason being that, while he kinda scales well with AP, most of his damage comes of W + Passive and therefore his Autoattacks. And yeah you can probably play him as a tanky AP top/mid... with rod and rylais I'd say. His ult kinda confuses me. Xspecial was playing him a earlier and missed the ult quite a few times. I'll wait a few days. Have around 8k ip and could go for Skarner or Riven... or finally get me Cassiopeia. update: saintvicious updated his runes for Fizz to red aspd, yellow armor, blue mr (i think), quints aspd. +25% aspd with wits end, bloodrazor and his W is going to be nasty. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
What the fuck, people. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:17 disformation wrote: saintvicious is currently playing jungle fizz on his stream. Wits End seems to be pretty awesome on him. He is planing to skip wriggels next game and just go Wits End into Warmogs and Bloodrazor or something. Reason being that, while he kinda scales well with AP, most of his damage comes of W + Passive and therefore his Autoattacks. And yeah you can probably play him as a tanky AP top/mid... with rod and rylais I'd say. His ult kinda confuses me. Xspecial was playing him a earlier and missed the ult quite a few times. I'll wait a few days. Have around 8k ip and could go for Skarner or Riven... or finally get me Cassiopeia. update: saintvicious updated his runes for Fizz to red aspd, yellow armor, blue mr (i think), quints aspd. +25% aspd with wits end, bloodrazor and his W is going to be nasty. Xpecial kept missing the ult because he didn't realize it was a skillshot. He kept clicking on enemies instead of leading them and threw the fish on the ground a bunch. Fizz's W is actually stupid good OP broken imba. Calling that shit now. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 16 2011 04:33 Brees wrote: riven is absurdly broken top lane now. perm ban eventually. I think so too. The new 21 offense seems ridiculous on her in general. | ||
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DEN1ED
United States1087 Posts
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Vlanitak
Norway3045 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
That said, being able to EEQ from a million range sounds like it makes for a ridiculous red buff gank, not to mention the giant shark when you hit 6. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:17 disformation wrote: saintvicious is currently playing jungle fizz on his stream. Wits End seems to be pretty awesome on him. He is planing to skip wriggels next game and just go Wits End into Warmogs and Bloodrazor or something. Reason being that, while he kinda scales well with AP, most of his damage comes of W + Passive and therefore his Autoattacks. And yeah you can probably play him as a tanky AP top/mid... with rod and rylais I'd say. His ult kinda confuses me. Xspecial was playing him a earlier and missed the ult quite a few times. I'll wait a few days. Have around 8k ip and could go for Skarner or Riven... or finally get me Cassiopeia. update: saintvicious updated his runes for Fizz to red aspd, yellow armor, blue mr (i think), quints aspd. +25% aspd with wits end, bloodrazor and his W is going to be nasty. This is actually the first thing I thought of when I saw his skillset, and figured someone like saint would try out. In mid lane def RoA/Rylai/Gunblade type champion, but he can be tanky too. He's got an irelia-style W (and a % based skill), gap closer, can avoid cc, aoe slow, and his knockup/slow ult, so theoretically he can be an evasive tanky dps. But I didn't think it through and think about what I'd get after Wit's End. | ||
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Ryalnos
United States1946 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:22 Sandster wrote: This is actually the first thing I thought of when I saw his skillset, and figured someone like saint would try out. In mid lane def RoA/Rylai/Gunblade type champion, but he can be tanky too. He's got an irelia-style W (and a % based skill), gap closer, can avoid cc, aoe slow, and his knockup/slow ult, so theoretically he can be an evasive tanky dps. But I didn't think it through and think about what I'd get after Wit's End. SV was thinking Wit's End, Bloodrazor, Warmog's, GA - he's trying it out now. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:22 TheYango wrote: Fizz's passive seems good for jungle, but Q seems like it'd be awkward because of how it moves you, and E making you untargetable drops minion aggro. W alone doesn't look like it's strong enough for you to clear quickly. That said, being able to EEQ from a million range sounds like it makes for a ridiculous red buff gank, not to mention the giant shark when you hit 6. well i assume you'd take E at level 4 as your "gank" skill, and like most "gank" skills (bear stance, warwick's bloodscent, skarner's shield, jarvan's shieldslow, amumu's bandage) you don't really USE those IN the jungle to clear. he might be able to Q into a camp from a distance (so he ends up just behind the camp without going through a wall, pop W for a bit, then Q back through them to finish? idk total theorycraft here | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:21 Vlanitak wrote: why? cant you just counter her with a Anti-Garen (+40 arm at lvl 1 hue) runepage and a tanky champion? I highly doubt you can counter her (like that). At the very best you can chug potions and farm while stacking armor. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:29 gtrsrs wrote: well i assume you'd take E at level 4 as your "gank" skill, and like most "gank" skills (bear stance, warwick's bloodscent, skarner's shield, jarvan's shieldslow, amumu's bandage) you don't really USE those IN the jungle to clear. he might be able to Q into a camp from a distance (so he ends up just behind the camp without going through a wall, pop W for a bit, then Q back through them to finish? idk total theorycraft here I mean, even if he's doing that, it's still all single-target damage. From a pure numbers perspective, it seems we're looking at jungle speed that seems most comparable to GP (Fizz's W passive is slightly stronger than GSB, and the active has similar numbers to Raise Morale, but Parley does more damage than Fizz's Q AND has half the CD at rank 1). Not necessarily terrible, but it does mean that you have to leverage your ganking power pretty aggressively because your slower clear speed is going to leave you somewhat vulnerable to counterjungling, and put you behind even in straight farming situations. On November 16 2011 05:21 Vlanitak wrote: why? cant you just counter her with a Anti-Garen (+40 arm at lvl 1 hue) runepage and a tanky champion? The difference is that vs. Garen, you can trade farm with him and watch him fall off late-game. Vs. Riven, you trade farm and watch her 1v5 your team late-game. The fact that she scales so well puts the onus on you to STOP her farm, not just farm defensively yourself, unless you're playing one of the top laners that scales as well as her (and the subset of champs that both beat her AND outscale her is pretty small). | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:36 TheYango wrote: I mean, even if he's doing that, it's still all single-target damage. From a pure numbers perspective, it seems we're looking at jungle speed that seems most comparable to GP (Fizz's W passive is stronger than GSB, and the active has similar numbers to Raise Morale, but Parley does more damage than Fizz's Q AND has half the CD at rank 1). Not necessarily terrible, but it does mean that you have to leverage your ganking power pretty aggressively because your poor clear speed is going to leave you somewhat vulnerable to counterjungling, and put you behind even in straight farming situations. The difference is that vs. Garen, you can trade farm with him and watch him fall off late-game. Vs. Riven, you trade farm and watch her 1v5 your team late-game. The fact that she scales so well puts the onus on you to STOP her farm, not just farm defensively yourself. Yeah it'd be like being forced to stack armor to survive Jax/Nasus in the early game. Riven lategame is on that level of super-carry, except she has a ridiculously strong laning phase too. She's going to get nerfed pretty soon. EDIT: who are you referring to that outlane AND outscale her? I can't really think of anyone. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
sounds like fun | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On November 16 2011 05:43 koreasilver wrote: new champ can take 0 damage from creeps with defense masteries and has two gap closers. sounds like fun Looks really fun too, SV is streaming games with him and seeing how good in jungle is the new guy he may be my first instabuy (aka buying a champ before it's freeweek) since MF | ||
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Gandling
United Kingdom126 Posts
Oh and he only had a madreds razor/wits end and was just poking people to death, Fizz looks fun Oh and apparently the tooltip for smite now shows how much damage its dealing Taken from rReddit http://imgur.com/a/oV7SG/noscript | ||
Alaric
France45622 Posts
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