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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On November 27 2011 16:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
Only ego/=the ability to listen. Go watch TOO solo q some time and tell me he doesnt have a massive ego, yet he plays well with regi. Same with TRM. And I remember one scrim tsm had where Xpecial and Regi argued for an hour about whether a call was correct.
Everything is just bigger with clg because they are the most popular team.
What you're talking about is neither "ego" nor "the ability to listen". It kinda goes among the lines of Southlight who called it "respect".
It's about establishing a (social) hierarchy, that's the same for any team based activity (didn't say "game" on purpose).
Someone can be a huge flaming, stubborn egomaniac (not exactly talking about TOO =P) but as long as someone else puts him into his place it will be fine.
Reginald is the type of guy (did someone see their stream when him and Chaox were talking to some girls? That showed it best.) who instantly gets the attention of the entire room. He's someone who speaks "I'm the biggest badass alpha male in here" in action, bodylanguage and intonation. That's why he can rally someone like TOO (who isn't very far behind e.g. Hotshot when it comes to "showing ego" on stream) around him and make him work in a competetive team environment.
I remember TSM coms which sounded kinda like
"OMG BRO DID YOU SEE THIS"
"Blue in 35..."
"LOL OMG THAT WAS FUNNY SHIT"
"I think we cou.."
"LETS GO DRAGON BRO YO"
They have probably the most distinctive hierarchy among the teams from those where I have listened to coms here and there.
The trick is kinda that someone like Reginald is able to keep everyone in his place and keep the same hierarchy established during "crisis". What usually happens in social groups if something goes wrong is that the hierarchy gets challenged because it seems the "leadership has failed somehow".
If a leader is able to reinforce his position during those times it all starts from new and is cool. If he isn't able to do that you get two (or more) cocks fighting each other over and over again about things where they wouldn't have fought about in the first place.
Since someone brought up the sports comparison earlier: this is a huge problem in "Dream Teams" - for companies it's usually a similar big problem if some outsider mixes together certain people to work on the same topic.
PS: I think I'm kinda drifting offtopic here, but those are the dynamics behind the whole "Why CLG won't ever be #1 with their current setup/mindesets while TSM has a good chance for it once this game evolves more." - And yes, if you can throw the top 5 in a solo ladder into the same team and they perform at world class it is very often something that shows that the game itself hasn't developed very far yet.
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On November 27 2011 17:15 BloodNinja wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 17:13 Two_DoWn wrote:
New jungle gonna make your dragonbitch op Uta. Then riot gonna have to nerf her to oblivion. Just like Kass..... oh wait. Speaking of which, when does the Uta Kass come back out? Or did learning support destroy that area of knowledge?
Regardless of how useful Kass may have been prior to the range nerf (which IMO killed him) the other reality is simply that 1) tankassadin isn't as effective as it used to be (shifting game, nerfed items, etc.) which removes the reason why I played him and 2) he's too situational (only worked against AP heroes, although I could brute force him into working against bruisers). I haven't really enjoyed playing him in over a year :<
I do think Shyv may end up requiring a nerf because her clearspeed is too crazy, but there're a few heroes who also have wicked fast cleartimes so we'll see how it goes.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
she doesnt have the utility that makes rammus/udyr/skarner's clear speeds excessive. Her kit is pretty meh. Not even sure what her abilities do besides the W to make you move faster.
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She's heavily punishing of slower junglers, and it'll become more insane after the jungle changes because at the moment she's so fast she can keep up pace with solo laners if the other jungler is caught outside of jungle a lot. That and her ability to double escape/chase is all she has going for her as a carry-type jungler.
From a support jungler perspective she's quite nice as she has an AoE 15% armor shred and is naturally relatively tanky, which gives your team some level of flexibility as a lot of favored junglers these days aren't that tanky (aside from the ones you mentioned above). I've been pining for some buffs though because she really only has that early-mid game going for her because they were so conservative with her ratios that she simply can't carry with her terribly-scaling W and the fact that her Q essentially just acts as a crappy active version of Master Yi's passive.
The question is whether her jungling speed (#1 in the game atm) can become broken enough by making there be less creep time lulls or if she's just going to remain comparable to other speed junglers and hence actually still needs scaling buffs lol.
Edit:
Her main utility is being able to carry Oracle early on by the way, thanks to having a really nice set of escape moves.
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On November 27 2011 17:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 16:59 Unentschieden wrote:
Fun fact: it´s intentional. Counterjungling isn´t supposed to be selffeeding where doing it once makes it easier the subsequent times (because you have the exact time). That makes it fairer since the victim still looses plenty gold and XP but it doesn´t feel as bad since your timings aren´t guesswork. Yeah it´s a nerf for conventional counterjungling however in turn laners now can participate since easier camps and HP restore makes it easier for nonjunglers to counterjungle.
In other words, they reduce the reward that a jungler gains for having superior planning/management ability. IMO that was the fun part of jungling. By contrast, ganking is much more an issue of technical execution, whereas there's more long-term planning/foresight involved in the interaction between the two junglers. And before you say it, no, managing/planning your route through the jungle is not just a skill barrier of memorization. Even at the highest levels, it matters. TheOddOne is especially good at placing himself in the jungle based on his knowledge of how camp spawns are going to play out over the next couple minutes.
They reduce the frustration of not getting any gold or XP without ever even meeting the responsible enemy. Defending the jungle is a collaborative effort, attacking it can be done alone. Counterjungling got an indirect buff by making junglefarm more reliable compared to risky ganking. Don´t tell me it took any planning to decide to gank when all camps are dead.
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rTU you need to become the David Attenborough.of LoL. Putting commentary on the behavior of LoL players/teams. haha.
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Moonbear, in case you read this, can you give some insight to the new runes, RIOT has been talking about? Any new stats to see in the game?
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So after hearing about the IP refund on Dodge runes, I decided to have a quick look at my rune pages to work out how much IP I'll be getting back, turns out I've only been using 2 Dodge runes this whole time...
Not sure how to feel about that. I play Jax fairly often too, but never felt like I needed any more dodge..
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I dont know Utahime. As I discussed with you, Shyvana might have insane clear speed, but not the slow of Skarner/Udyr. I sure hope new jungle doesn't mean only this three superfast junglers are viable.
On a related note, why are all AP mid besides Annie skillshots? =/ Skillshots to hard with 250 ping.
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How is Annie not skillshots? I think I've tibber'd more minions than champions in my LoL history!
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On November 27 2011 20:48 cascades wrote:
I dont know Utahime. As I discussed with you, Shyvana might have insane clear speed, but not the slow of Skarner/Udyr. I sure hope new jungle doesn't mean only this three superfast junglers are viable.
On a related note, why are all AP mid besides Annie skillshots? =/ Skillshots to hard with 250 ping.
Sion, Vlad, Zilean, Ryze(literally all of his abilities are target based, so he's less skillshot than annie), Soraka(hey don't laugh). And if you consider Annie non skill shot because her W and R are cone and aoe target, then heimer, veigar, swain and Kassadin aren't really champs with a skillshot, either.
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On November 27 2011 10:40 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:33 JackDino wrote:On November 27 2011 10:31 Treadmill wrote:On November 27 2011 10:24 JackDino wrote:Going into the enemy jungle just to kill the blue wolf/big wraith/1 golem will put you too far behind actually. On November 27 2011 10:24 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On November 27 2011 10:01 JackDino wrote:
Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers anyways unless you can clear your jungler take enemy jungler and be back in your jungle when it spawns. You just leave a mob so it doesn't respawn. I don't understand why people think it's a requirement to clear the entire camp. You lose too much time for gaining almost nothing, you're better off just farming your own jungle the other jungler won't be hurt that much just because a wolf is gone, especially with the jungle being made weaker they may not even need the lvls to get full clears(ie right now some junglers can't do red @ lvl2 when starting blue and you take their wraiths for example). Except, except, except, they made the whole point that there putting much more of the small camps into the 'hero' minion (blue wraith, big wolf) so you go in and take that and both get and deny the majority of experience and gold from the camp. Go back and look at Guinsoo's post on the LoL forums, they HAVE though about this. Was pretty much talking about how it is right now since you can't really say anything about next patch. I guess. Even in this patch, though, stealing the blue wraith/2 small ones doesn't take very long. Going all the way just to take the big wolf probably isn't worth it though, that is true. You did say "Counterjungling wouldn't be worth it with faster respawn timers" which is referring to the new patch though so if you say you aren't talking post-patch then I'm just confused.
Yeah it was late so I've been typing things that I've been thinking and thinking things that I've been typing. But let's assume you both do wolves before blue and then go to wraiths, enemy jungler will take your big wraith, you will clear wraiths and start red, clear your red when enemy jungler just finished his wraiths. Enemy jungler may have a bit more xp, but your jungle will be respawning way faster than his.
Ask elementz if annie has skillshots :p
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On November 27 2011 19:53 Unentschieden wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 17:05 TheYango wrote:On November 27 2011 16:59 Unentschieden wrote:
Fun fact: it´s intentional. Counterjungling isn´t supposed to be selffeeding where doing it once makes it easier the subsequent times (because you have the exact time). That makes it fairer since the victim still looses plenty gold and XP but it doesn´t feel as bad since your timings aren´t guesswork. Yeah it´s a nerf for conventional counterjungling however in turn laners now can participate since easier camps and HP restore makes it easier for nonjunglers to counterjungle.
In other words, they reduce the reward that a jungler gains for having superior planning/management ability. IMO that was the fun part of jungling. By contrast, ganking is much more an issue of technical execution, whereas there's more long-term planning/foresight involved in the interaction between the two junglers. And before you say it, no, managing/planning your route through the jungle is not just a skill barrier of memorization. Even at the highest levels, it matters. TheOddOne is especially good at placing himself in the jungle based on his knowledge of how camp spawns are going to play out over the next couple minutes. They reduce the frustration of not getting any gold or XP without ever even meeting the responsible enemy. Defending the jungle is a collaborative effort, attacking it can be done alone. Counterjungling got an indirect buff by making junglefarm more reliable compared to risky ganking. Don´t tell me it took any planning to decide to gank when all camps are dead.
why exactly does the only interesting peice of gameplay have to be a head on confrontation? surely it allows more champs to jungle well if there is more than 1 way to hurt the other team. the argument that the only way to hurt the jungler is to kill him is akin to say the only way to help your team should be to deal damage
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On November 27 2011 21:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 20:48 cascades wrote:
I dont know Utahime. As I discussed with you, Shyvana might have insane clear speed, but not the slow of Skarner/Udyr. I sure hope new jungle doesn't mean only this three superfast junglers are viable.
On a related note, why are all AP mid besides Annie skillshots? =/ Skillshots to hard with 250 ping. Sion, Vlad, Zilean, Ryze(literally all of his abilities are target based, so he's less skillshot than annie), Soraka(hey don't laugh). And if you consider Annie non skill shot because her W and R are cone and aoe target, then heimer, veigar, swain and Kassadin aren't really champs with a skillshot, either.
I agree about Kass/swain but heimers nade is a major skillshot even if its not his #1 ability, and veigar's stun is MAJOR skillshot. Really fast and accurate stun placement is what makes good veigar players, and its a very trick skill. His entire toolset is based on hitting that stun well.
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On November 27 2011 22:56 sob3k wrote:
I agree about Kass/swain but heimers nade is a major skillshot even if its not his #1 ability, and veigar's stun is MAJOR skillshot. Really fast and accurate stun placement is what makes good veigar players, and its a very trick skill. His entire toolset is based on hitting that stun well.
I agree about Kass/swain but heimers nade is a major skillshot
I agree about Kass/swain
swain
Have you ever played Swain? Do you have any idea how bloody hard it is to land that stupid thing?
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On November 27 2011 23:02 ManyCookies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 22:56 sob3k wrote:
I agree about Kass/swain but heimers nade is a major skillshot even if its not his #1 ability, and veigar's stun is MAJOR skillshot. Really fast and accurate stun placement is what makes good veigar players, and its a very trick skill. His entire toolset is based on hitting that stun well. Have you ever played Swain? Do you have any idea how bloody hard it is to land that stupid thing?
I take that back, I haven't played swain in a while and forgot. Although its not THAAAT hard.
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Not QQing but really looking for some advice here:
is it normal that I experience an absurd amount of trolls and flat out bad people doing my placement matches? I just got into ranked after building up a roster of champs I am decent with and it's been shocking how bad people are. Had a game where picks went: Trynd (top), Trundle, Ryze (me). Last 2 picks proceed to go Renekton/Leona Flash/Ignite and feed all game long.
I'm just wondering because in normals, people are usually trying to get a decent teamcomp and stuff, while in ranked matches people just seem to roll their heads at champ select. Just bad luck or normal business?
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On November 27 2011 23:12 Shiv. wrote:
Not QQing but really looking for some advice here:
is it normal that I experience an absurd amount of trolls and flat out bad people doing my placement matches? I just got into ranked after building up a roster of champs I am decent with and it's been shocking how bad people are. Had a game where picks went: Trynd (top), Trundle, Ryze (me). Last 2 picks proceed to go Renekton/Leona Flash/Ignite and feed all game long.
I'm just wondering because in normals, people are usually trying to get a decent teamcomp and stuff, while in ranked matches people just seem to roll their heads at champ select. Just bad luck or normal business?
people troll and play like shit just as much in normals as ranked, just get used to it.
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On November 27 2011 23:12 Shiv. wrote:
Not QQing but really looking for some advice here:
is it normal that I experience an absurd amount of trolls and flat out bad people doing my placement matches? I just got into ranked after building up a roster of champs I am decent with and it's been shocking how bad people are. Had a game where picks went: Trynd (top), Trundle, Ryze (me). Last 2 picks proceed to go Renekton/Leona Flash/Ignite and feed all game long.
I'm just wondering because in normals, people are usually trying to get a decent teamcomp and stuff, while in ranked matches people just seem to roll their heads at champ select. Just bad luck or normal business?
elo?
also, swain's snare is pretty easy in my opinion
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On November 27 2011 23:12 Shiv. wrote:
Not QQing but really looking for some advice here:
is it normal that I experience an absurd amount of trolls and flat out bad people doing my placement matches? I just got into ranked after building up a roster of champs I am decent with and it's been shocking how bad people are. Had a game where picks went: Trynd (top), Trundle, Ryze (me). Last 2 picks proceed to go Renekton/Leona Flash/Ignite and feed all game long.
I'm just wondering because in normals, people are usually trying to get a decent teamcomp and stuff, while in ranked matches people just seem to roll their heads at champ select. Just bad luck or normal business?
I think it's because your normal Elo is higher than the average, but when you just start off ranked you're playing with the average ranked player who.. well, isn't that good.
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EPT
