I like E>Q>W the most o3o
E is a decent poke, though it's got a fairly high cd, and Q makes E do way more damage
Leveling W is 5% more speed per level (good not amazing) and more damage per level but not as much burst as EQ
EQ is also more AoE damage than W in fights if you can E the entire team.

MoonBear

Straight outta Johto18973 Posts

November 03 2011 00:24 GMT

#803

On November 03 2011 08:07 Craton wrote:
What are some good laners to shit on Sion with? I would think a lot of the top bruisers would do it.

Annie Q-W should pop his shield. Risu asked me to 1v1 him with (me on Sion having never played him before with no proper AP runes and no idea wtf to do, him on Annie) and he kept popping my shield with good Q-Ws. Although, after I got some farm I just started killing him even though I walked into Tibbers Stuns all day even though he was a few levels ahead and had more gold. Idk, Sion is just silly atm.

I suppose anyone who is good early on and has some decent CC could do fine. Do Ryze's spell outrange Sion? Might work.

Re Shyvana: Haven't played her but just looking at the numbers W does more damage than a single E if you can get them stay in it for 4+ seconds. However, E has more burst damage and if you combo auto+Q onto it is just under 400 magic damage when maxed. E>Q>W for max damage maybe? Esp in dragon form where you can AoE spam down people and keep stacking those 15% bonus damage. Looking at her though it seems one of her strengths would be flexibility in skill order and having her damage split between physical and magic so it's hard to spec against her. Again, this is all theorycraft more than anything else so take this with a healthy dose of salt.

overt

United States9006 Posts

November 03 2011 00:26 GMT

#804

People have been maxing E last for a couple of reasons. First, most people are building Shyvana as an AD bruiser and maxing a skillshot that deals magic damage and scales off AP just doesn't make a ton of sense. Second, levels in W increase your move speed as well as the damage it does per second and while it's bad in the sense that it pushes up the lane it also farms pretty well and will let you win fights you otherwise wouldn't have won (85 damage per second, if you can get it to max duration that's 85 damage over 6 seconds before factoring in the AD scaling). Third, Q has a lower cooldown and each level in it reduces the cooldown (although additional levels in E reduce its cooldown as well). The other thing about Q is that at level 1 it's going to do 80% of your attack damage and at max rank it'll do 100%.

Basically people are maxing E last because it's a skillshot, it does magic damage and scales off AP, and W does more damage. I'm not sure if Q would hit harder or not. I could see an argument for maxing E over Q but maxing W first makes the most sense whether you're laning or jungling her.

Max level E is going to do 260 magic damage and debuff target, max level Q assuming no AD items and AD quints is going to do 119 damagex2 (238). How big is the AoE of Q in dragon form? Cause at max rank of E your autos are going to do an additional 39 magic damage to debuffed targets so I think the damage is pretty close but it's probably in E's favor. Although Q is more reliable since it isn't a skill shot. The deciding factor for me will be how big the AoE of Q in dragon form is and if you buy items with on-hit effects (you probably will).

edit:
Also 50% movespeed over 30% is pretty huge. It might only be 5% per level but I would never max W last on her.

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

November 03 2011 00:30 GMT

#805

Jatt and Wickd on SOTL lollololol.

ArC_man

United States2798 Posts

November 03 2011 00:33 GMT

#806

I don't think Annie is a good choice for specifically countering Sion. If it takes Q+W just to break his shield, it's not exactly mana efficient (since Annie's W already costs more than Sion's shield). You'll quickly find yourself out of mana if you constantly try to break his shield.

Craton

United States17294 Posts

November 03 2011 00:37 GMT

#807

It's not. Even if you Q+W his shield off, he'll take minimal damage. He'll also land his own stun while you're landing yours and he'll win the trade.

TheYango

United States47024 Posts

November 03 2011 00:37 GMT

#808

Annie doesn't do well against Sion because after 6, he doesn't fight you. He just blows up the wave and leaves, and you can't clear the creeps nearly as quickly as him. You can't blow up his shield without using both spells, so if you try to stop him he'll win when you run out of mana.

Takkara

United States2503 Posts

November 03 2011 00:47 GMT

#809

Jatt saying "he didn't know" about WCG dual-citizenship rules. Said he was just going to play for both teams because he "committed" to them. Talking REALLY slowly to avoid tripping up in his own bullshit.

EDIT: On State of the League

overt

United States9006 Posts

November 03 2011 00:56 GMT

#810

On November 03 2011 09:47 Takkara wrote:
Jatt saying "he didn't know" about WCG dual-citizenship rules. Said he was just going to play for both teams because he "committed" to them. Talking REALLY slowly to avoid tripping up in his own bullshit.

EDIT: On State of the League

He came across well imo. I'm still not happy with how Dignitas handled it but I do agree with him and what others on that show said in that the vast majority of the anger should be focused at WCG.

Also, Guardsman Bob was pretty accurate when he said they need to make rules that aren't super vague.

Gorsameth

Netherlands22443 Posts

November 03 2011 00:57 GMT

#811

While i am not watching atm i assume he watched fuck slasher and has seen regis bad performance. Hence taking his time and making sure he doesnt make a fool of himself more then he already has

Icysoul

Canada254 Posts

November 03 2011 01:00 GMT

#812

doublelift just implied that Matt Marcou had a decision to make on this, im not sure if he miss worded that, or is that just a slip of the tougue.

HazMat

United States17077 Posts

November 03 2011 01:02 GMT

#813

Can this Travis guy PLEASE stop nut riding Marcou. I don't care if he's a cool guy in real life, he's a fucking terrible ESPORTS manager and doesn't deserve his job.

Two_DoWn

United States13684 Posts

November 03 2011 01:06 GMT

#814

On November 03 2011 10:02 HazMat wrote:
Can this Travis guy PLEASE stop nut riding Marcou. I don't care if he's a cool guy in real life, he's a fucking terrible ESPORTS manager and doesn't deserve his job.

Travis nut rides every riot decision. Its not new. Dude is a shitty host.

tobi9999

United States1966 Posts

November 03 2011 01:07 GMT

#815

Travis just annoys me every time he talks. He drags out everything he says and it makes me want to just fall asleep on him lol.

UniversalSnip

9871 Posts

November 03 2011 01:08 GMT

#816

He does indeed slurp riot's nuts. He's made his position pretty clear, he will never say anything negative about riot because he wants them to come on his show. That's not something I've inferred from watching (I don't), he's very up front about it, he feels if he criticizes riot they will never talk to him and the show will descend into a landslide of negativity.

triangle

United States3803 Posts

November 03 2011 01:09 GMT

#817

Watching State of the League for the first time...

Is it always this bad? Horrible host and incredibly dull show.

JBright

Vancouver14381 Posts

November 03 2011 01:11 GMT

#818

That and his gf works at Riot. Can't publicly shame them or things could get messy.

phyvo

United States5635 Posts

November 03 2011 01:11 GMT

#819

On November 03 2011 09:26 overt wrote:
People have been maxing E last for a couple of reasons. First, most people are building Shyvana as an AD bruiser and maxing a skillshot that deals magic damage and scales off AP just doesn't make a ton of sense. Second, levels in W increase your move speed as well as the damage it does per second and while it's bad in the sense that it pushes up the lane it also farms pretty well and will let you win fights you otherwise wouldn't have won (85 damage per second, if you can get it to max duration that's 85 damage over 6 seconds before factoring in the AD scaling).

W's duration actually goes from 3 to 9 seconds. The tooltip is really poorly worded.

Third, Q has a lower cooldown and each level in it reduces the cooldown (although additional levels in E reduce its cooldown as well). The other thing about Q is that at level 1 it's going to do 80% of your attack damage and at max rank it'll do 100%.

It's actually 180% to 200%. The first hit is always 100%, the second hit scales. You level it more for the cd than the AD scaling.

edit:
Also 50% movespeed over 30% is pretty huge. It might only be 5% per level but I would never max W last on her.

Keep in mind also that the bonus decreases over time. I'd think it was completely linear but it probably interacts oddly with increasing the duration.

overt

United States9006 Posts

November 03 2011 01:11 GMT

#820

On November 03 2011 10:08 UniversalSnip wrote:
He does indeed slurp riot's nuts. He's made his position pretty clear, he will never say anything negative about riot because he wants them to come on his show. That's not something I've inferred from watching (I don't), he's very up front about it, he feels if he criticizes riot they will never talk to him and the show will descend into a landslide of negativity.

I've heard he's dating a girl that works for Riot. Don't know how true that is but it wouldn't surprise me.