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On October 16 2011 02:21 dignity wrote:
Wither is the bane of my top solo bruisers' existence.
what? which bruiser gets shut down by wither? x_x
pantheon ignores it, you auto during the first tick, then spear stun HSS combo is unaffected by wither
renekton ignores it, get withered EWQE no autos required
irelia ignores it, stuns nasus then keeps Qing creeps
jarvan ignores it, auto during first tick then e->q and stand and fight or run
gangplank cleanse
garen spins the slow off
lee sin Q->Q or EEW->W to run
rumble turns on flamethrower and laughs
trynd spins away
the only common top lanes i can think that wither hurts are teemo and warwick, MAYBE singed but lol probably not it's singed
wither isn't an anti-bruiser skill it's an anti-ranged carry skill. it crushes champs that rely on auto attacks, not skills, like most bruisers do
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On October 16 2011 03:14 Flakes wrote:
I don't think I've ever considered "high number of playable characters" as a drawback in any game, but I can understand resentment about the pricing (as "1 champ" becomes a progressively smaller percentage of the game's content).
Over two years, I've probably played a majority of my games with a pool of <10 champions. Maybe once LoL hits the 100-champion mark they should give new players discount coupons to form a "starting roster" without having to play too many games.
They need to be more proactive about reducing champion prices. There are more 6300 champs than any other amount and every new champ is either 4800 or 6300. Having a lot of champs is fine from a business PoV if a large amount of them are cheap, but that isn't the case.
I don't think you want to know the total IP cost for every champ.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 16 2011 03:31 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 03:14 Flakes wrote:
I don't think I've ever considered "high number of playable characters" as a drawback in any game, but I can understand resentment about the pricing (as "1 champ" becomes a progressively smaller percentage of the game's content).
Over two years, I've probably played a majority of my games with a pool of <10 champions. Maybe once LoL hits the 100-champion mark they should give new players discount coupons to form a "starting roster" without having to play too many games. They need to be more proactive about reducing champion prices. There are more 6300 champs than any other amount and every new champ is either 4800 or 6300. Having a lot of champs is fine from a business PoV if a large amount of them are cheap, but that isn't the case. I don't think you want to know the total IP cost for every champ. + Show Spoiler +
They're already doing that by drastically ( in some cases) reducing the costs of older champions.
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On October 15 2011 23:00 KinosJourney2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 22:43 Alaric wrote:On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable) This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP  You do realize that GB's problem with Akali is not as much the damage than the sustain, don't you? She's an assassin, so hitting hard is normal. Being burst down and regenerating more than half your health from insta-gibbing a squishy, with the "on kill get one mark" making her ready to do it again the following second is not. Yeah i know that the sustain was the largest problem, but the sustain was what kept her alive along with her shroud in a teamfight. I used to go with the Hextech Revolver > Rylai's > Deathcap build but it felt lacking damagewise until you got your Deathcap compared to the Gunblade route. Also the sustain from the Gunblade compensated for the survivability you lost from not building Rylai's. I think it was pretty bad by Riot to hit the Gunblade instead of just tuning down Akali's spell vamp passive as this affected many more characters than just Akali that wasn't necessarily OP (Skarner and Mordekaiser to name a few who comes to mind).
The sustain from Gunblade didn't compensate for the survivability lost from Rylai's, it exceeded it. One burst combo from Gunblade did 1k magic damage before mitigation with no other items. Right there you just healed for as much health as Rylai's gives you.
Before Gunblade was the craze Akali players survived teamfights by actually thinking about when they entered them, picking their targets carefully, and having an escape plan. The whole "I sit in my shroud and just heal forever gg" style only started recently.
I'm pretty sure Riot has the wherewithal to buff any Hybrid champions pushed into being underpowered by the Gunblade changes.
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i can't believe people are whining about gunblade getting nerfed. What are these, the riot forums? Man up.
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I honestly am not complaining about the gunblade nerf at all. Having 47% spell vamp with one item on Akali, which had insane burst, was just silly. And I play Akali (when not banned).
I am more worried about other people who use gunblade than Akali.
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Just found a glitch when in champ select for ranked. Our first person was talking with us like normal, then he lagged or something. When he reconnected, he had randomed Vlad and asked us what champ he randomed. We answered, but he couldn't see our talking. We saw his but he couldn't see what we were typing.
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On October 15 2011 18:40 Flakes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 15:33 dignity wrote:
Gunblade needed a nerf. Everyone was getting it on every champion. Thanks Riot.
-Triforce
On a more serious note, depending on the numbers, who would be hit harder by this? Akali or Jax? Probably Jax, he scales much harder with the AD/lifesteal Gunblade nerf was needed, the only reason it's so strong is because they kept power-creeping it because no one bought it. I think the same can be said about Skarner. I think the XP nerf on dominion is good, last game I hit 18 with just a gunblade, tabi and chain vest edit: yarly (the old gunblade, before craziness) patch 1.0.0.86 New Item: Hextech Gunblade +45 Attack Damage +55 Ability Power +15% Life Steal +12% Spell Vamp UNIQUE Active: Deals 300 magic damage and slows the target champion by 50% for 3 seconds (700 range). 60 second cooldown.
Where you getting these numbers from?
Cause that's a huuuuuge nerf to the spell vamp, which also means revolver is getting hit too. And imo revolver was in a good place.
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Those were the original stats when Gunblade was added to the game.
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Read again. That's the stats Gunblade had at an earlier patch (when it was released), before it got those huge buffs.
zzz I was too elaborate about it, you beat me.
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On October 16 2011 04:43 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 18:40 Flakes wrote:On October 15 2011 15:33 dignity wrote:
Gunblade needed a nerf. Everyone was getting it on every champion. Thanks Riot.
-Triforce
On a more serious note, depending on the numbers, who would be hit harder by this? Akali or Jax? Probably Jax, he scales much harder with the AD/lifesteal Gunblade nerf was needed, the only reason it's so strong is because they kept power-creeping it because no one bought it. I think the same can be said about Skarner. I think the XP nerf on dominion is good, last game I hit 18 with just a gunblade, tabi and chain vest edit: yarly (the old gunblade, before craziness) patch 1.0.0.86 New Item: Hextech Gunblade +45 Attack Damage +55 Ability Power +15% Life Steal +12% Spell Vamp UNIQUE Active: Deals 300 magic damage and slows the target champion by 50% for 3 seconds (700 range). 60 second cooldown. Where you getting these numbers from? Cause that's a huuuuuge nerf to the spell vamp, which also means revolver is getting hit too. And imo revolver was in a good place.
Your logic is also flawed, IIRC Madred's Bloodrazor loses flat AD when being upgraded compared to its components. Combining items does not always have to increase stats.
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reading comp fail lolol
On October 16 2011 04:49 STS17 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 04:43 Ryuu314 wrote:On October 15 2011 18:40 Flakes wrote:On October 15 2011 15:33 dignity wrote:
Gunblade needed a nerf. Everyone was getting it on every champion. Thanks Riot.
-Triforce
On a more serious note, depending on the numbers, who would be hit harder by this? Akali or Jax? Probably Jax, he scales much harder with the AD/lifesteal Gunblade nerf was needed, the only reason it's so strong is because they kept power-creeping it because no one bought it. I think the same can be said about Skarner. I think the XP nerf on dominion is good, last game I hit 18 with just a gunblade, tabi and chain vest edit: yarly (the old gunblade, before craziness) patch 1.0.0.86 New Item: Hextech Gunblade +45 Attack Damage +55 Ability Power +15% Life Steal +12% Spell Vamp UNIQUE Active: Deals 300 magic damage and slows the target champion by 50% for 3 seconds (700 range). 60 second cooldown. Where you getting these numbers from? Cause that's a huuuuuge nerf to the spell vamp, which also means revolver is getting hit too. And imo revolver was in a good place. Your logic is also flawed, IIRC Madred's Bloodrazor loses flat AD when being upgraded compared to its components. Combining items does not always have to increase stats.
It doesn't, but MBR is the only exception in the game, and it makes up the -10 AD by giving a ton of magic damage per hit.
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On October 16 2011 03:29 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 02:21 dignity wrote:
Wither is the bane of my top solo bruisers' existence. what? which bruiser gets shut down by wither? x_x pantheon ignores it, you auto during the first tick, then spear stun HSS combo is unaffected by wither renekton ignores it, get withered EWQE no autos required irelia ignores it, stuns nasus then keeps Qing creeps jarvan ignores it, auto during first tick then e->q and stand and fight or run gangplank cleanse garen spins the slow off lee sin Q->Q or EEW->W to run rumble turns on flamethrower and laughs trynd spins away the only common top lanes i can think that wither hurts are teemo and warwick, MAYBE singed but lol probably not it's singed wither isn't an anti-bruiser skill it's an anti-ranged carry skill. it crushes champs that rely on auto attacks, not skills, like most bruisers do
The only one of those bruisers I imagine having trouble with as Nasus is Renekton. And maybe Panth, but I've never faced one top lane.
Wither isn't used to harass or shut down anyone; Nasus isn't a harassing champ. Just use imba lifesteal to stay in lane as long as possible farming Q all day (spirit fire if you're against someone who won't let you autoattack every minion). The only time I use wither is to bait a Flash or once I've gotten Sheen and enough Q farm, 100%-0 combo.
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United States693 Posts
On October 16 2011 00:59 Alaric wrote:
I wouldn't call wither "weak" any way. It's still one of the best single target slow in the game along with Nunu's Iceball and Ashe's frost arrows. nunu iceball is garbage now. its only really comparable to ashe or gp.
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On October 16 2011 05:08 Attakijing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2011 00:59 Alaric wrote:
I wouldn't call wither "weak" any way. It's still one of the best single target slow in the game along with Nunu's Iceball and Ashe's frost arrows. nunu iceball is garbage now. its only really comparable to ashe or gp.
Nunu's iceball is still pretty good...All Riot did was nerf the early levels of it so it wasn't so insane early game. His iceball is unchanged at lvl 5 and relatively unchanged at lvls 4-5
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Wither is second best slow in game after LS e.
Everyone always forgets about it, but it is.
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wat? singed's slow is much stronger, ranged and aoe.you can catch ppl from weird angles with it
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Lee sin E is easier to escape from(can still Q though), Nasus Wither impossible to escape from.
Wither:
Nasus ages his target, slowing their movement and attack speed by 35%. Additionally, they are reduced further to reach an extra slow at the end of 5 seconds.
Extra Slow: 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 / 60 %
Either it's explained poorly or the maximum speed reduction is 95%. I don't know I don't really play nasus and when I get withered it's like I can't move at all.
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On October 16 2011 04:43 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2011 18:40 Flakes wrote:On October 15 2011 15:33 dignity wrote:
Gunblade needed a nerf. Everyone was getting it on every champion. Thanks Riot.
-Triforce
On a more serious note, depending on the numbers, who would be hit harder by this? Akali or Jax? Probably Jax, he scales much harder with the AD/lifesteal Gunblade nerf was needed, the only reason it's so strong is because they kept power-creeping it because no one bought it. I think the same can be said about Skarner. I think the XP nerf on dominion is good, last game I hit 18 with just a gunblade, tabi and chain vest edit: yarly (the old gunblade, before craziness) patch 1.0.0.86 New Item: Hextech Gunblade +45 Attack Damage +55 Ability Power +15% Life Steal +12% Spell Vamp UNIQUE Active: Deals 300 magic damage and slows the target champion by 50% for 3 seconds (700 range). 60 second cooldown. Where you getting these numbers from? Cause that's a huuuuuge nerf to the spell vamp, which also means revolver is getting hit too. And imo revolver was in a good place.
If revolver gets hit Vlad is going to suck even more.
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On October 16 2011 05:21 JackDino wrote:
Lee sin E is easier to escape from(can still Q though), Nasus Wither impossible to escape from.
Wither:
Nasus ages his target, slowing their movement and attack speed by 35%. Additionally, they are reduced further to reach an extra slow at the end of 5 seconds.
Extra Slow: 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 / 60 %
Either it's explained poorly or the maximum speed reduction is 95%. I don't know I don't really play nasus and when I get withered it's like I can't move at all.
You're right about the 95%
The very end of the slow you're essentially not even moving but it's only for like 0.5 of a second.
IMO Wither >> Lee Sin E because it's ranged (even though not AoE) and allows you and your whole team tons of time to catch up with target as the slow increases. Often Flash isn't even enough to save you. Not to mention AS reduction to make many champions completely ineffective for the duration (and others just less effective).
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EPT
