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[Patch 1.0.0.126: Xerath] General Discussion - Page 124

Forum Index > LoL General
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KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
October 15 2011 12:27 GMT
#2461
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
epoc
Profile Joined December 2010
Finland1190 Posts
October 15 2011 12:38 GMT
#2462
On October 15 2011 21:05 shinarit wrote:
Btw, dont you think its a bit too fast to add champions like this? I mean we already have 80+ champs, if we get much more, balancing will be a hard issue, and getting familiar with all of them is harder still. I played 2-300 games and there are still champs i dont really know (their skills, capabilities). I never met Yorick before this free rotation for example. Also rarely see Trundle, still dont know what his skills doing (read once on the wiki page, but dont really remember). I feel we dont really need a champion every 2 weeks.


I agree with this. It'll be hard to make the champions unique and balanced when there are over 100 of them. Dota has around 103 champions and they release like 4 champions a year. Imo one champion per month would be good for lol
Woony
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany6657 Posts
October 15 2011 12:51 GMT
#2463
On October 15 2011 21:38 epoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:05 shinarit wrote:
Btw, dont you think its a bit too fast to add champions like this? I mean we already have 80+ champs, if we get much more, balancing will be a hard issue, and getting familiar with all of them is harder still. I played 2-300 games and there are still champs i dont really know (their skills, capabilities). I never met Yorick before this free rotation for example. Also rarely see Trundle, still dont know what his skills doing (read once on the wiki page, but dont really remember). I feel we dont really need a champion every 2 weeks.


I agree with this. It'll be hard to make the champions unique and balanced when there are over 100 of them. Dota has around 103 champions and they release like 4 champions a year. Imo one champion per month would be good for lol


They said they will stop when they think they have enough (probably around 90-100, anything more would be silly)
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 12:56:14
October 15 2011 12:54 GMT
#2464
Main problem with gunblade is how hilariously cost efficient it was. People like LEE SIN and PANTHEON were getting it despite not using the AP just that even the AD+The on use was super good alone and the lifesteal and spell vamp on top of it making it really strong.

Compare gunblae to BT and now take into account that BT is one of the more cost efficient items in the game. It's basically 75 AP, 20% spell vamp, and 300 damage AND slow proc with insane lane, versus a potential 40 more AD and 600 less gold.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 12:56:26
October 15 2011 12:56 GMT
#2465
On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP

Akali will be fine. Rylais->DCap/Lichbane was a totally playable build before the huge Gunblade craze started and thrust her into perma-ban status in both solo queue and arranged games.
Moderator
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
October 15 2011 13:09 GMT
#2466
yes, akali was build either sheen or little gun plus rylias plus lichbane not too long ago with decent success.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
October 15 2011 13:32 GMT
#2467
On October 15 2011 21:56 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP

Akali will be fine. Rylais->DCap/Lichbane was a totally playable build before the huge Gunblade craze started and thrust her into perma-ban status in both solo queue and arranged games.


Those two builds where discussed heavily in the akali thread. Basicly it came down to gunblade rushing being the better option if you position her at the top lane and rilay's rushing for the midlane for several reasons. The recent tournament has shown the same, akali was played top with gunblade everytime i saw her. The oldschool "akali-mid-rilay-rush-westrice-build" is almost completely untouched as you say correctly, because gunblade is situational in this build anyways.

But dont rush into thinking that gunblade is suddenly useless. It is one of the items that was buffed several times in over the last half year. I believe it will still be a very good option for hybrid characters anyways. Atm it is just too costeffective if you can afford to get it.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 15 2011 13:36 GMT
#2468
On October 15 2011 22:32 clickrush wrote:
But dont rush into thinking that gunblade is suddenly useless. It is one of the items that was buffed several times in over the last half year. I believe it will still be a very good option for hybrid characters anyways. Atm it is just too costeffective if you can afford to get it.

We'll have to see how the numbers work out. It's too early to say how useful or useless gunblade will be.
Moderator
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 13:44:07
October 15 2011 13:43 GMT
#2469
On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP


You do realize that GB's problem with Akali is not as much the damage than the sustain, don't you? She's an assassin, so hitting hard is normal. Being burst down and regenerating more than half your health from insta-gibbing a squishy, with the "on kill get one mark" making her ready to do it again the following second is not.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 15 2011 13:46 GMT
#2470
On October 15 2011 22:32 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:56 TheYango wrote:
On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP

Akali will be fine. Rylais->DCap/Lichbane was a totally playable build before the huge Gunblade craze started and thrust her into perma-ban status in both solo queue and arranged games.


Those two builds where discussed heavily in the akali thread. Basicly it came down to gunblade rushing being the better option if you position her at the top lane and rilay's rushing for the midlane for several reasons. The recent tournament has shown the same, akali was played top with gunblade everytime i saw her. The oldschool "akali-mid-rilay-rush-westrice-build" is almost completely untouched as you say correctly, because gunblade is situational in this build anyways.

But dont rush into thinking that gunblade is suddenly useless. It is one of the items that was buffed several times in over the last half year. I believe it will still be a very good option for hybrid characters anyways. Atm it is just too costeffective if you can afford to get it.


not wanting to add more flame to the fire but with ranged ap being so common in solo mid doesnt that make akali kinda pointless? you cant lane vs any mage

if thats true top lane play is all that matters, and early game you still struggle with sustain which is why i love to rush revolver over any part of rylais. and from there obviously gunblade is the better next choice
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 14:04:04
October 15 2011 14:00 GMT
#2471
On October 15 2011 22:43 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:27 KinosJourney2 wrote:
This gunblade nerf enrages me, hybrid characters are shit without it and Akali was probably hit the hardest by this. Jax mainly uses the AD and Life Steal from a gunblade so he can just build a Bloodthirster instead in the future and be a bit weaker than before while Akali has no replacement item unless you want to build Will of the Ancients. (I do agree that Jax needed some toning down late game but hitting the gunblade was just dumb since it affects other characters aswell, especially Akali who Riot said they didn't want to nerf since her damage is the only thing that makes her viable)

This will be another nerf to Mordekaiser aswell since the gunblade was his first item unless you were building full AP


You do realize that GB's problem with Akali is not as much the damage than the sustain, don't you? She's an assassin, so hitting hard is normal. Being burst down and regenerating more than half your health from insta-gibbing a squishy, with the "on kill get one mark" making her ready to do it again the following second is not.


Yeah i know that the sustain was the largest problem, but the sustain was what kept her alive along with her shroud in a teamfight.

I used to go with the Hextech Revolver > Rylai's > Deathcap build but it felt lacking damagewise until you got your Deathcap compared to the Gunblade route. Also the sustain from the Gunblade compensated for the survivability you lost from not building Rylai's.

I think it was pretty bad by Riot to hit the Gunblade instead of just tuning down Akali's spell vamp passive as this affected many more characters than just Akali that wasn't necessarily OP (Skarner and Mordekaiser to name a few who comes to mind).
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
October 15 2011 14:14 GMT
#2472
On October 15 2011 21:05 shinarit wrote:
Btw, dont you think its a bit too fast to add champions like this? I mean we already have 80+ champs, if we get much more, balancing will be a hard issue, and getting familiar with all of them is harder still. I played 2-300 games and there are still champs i dont really know (their skills, capabilities). I never met Yorick before this free rotation for example. Also rarely see Trundle, still dont know what his skills doing (read once on the wiki page, but dont really remember). I feel we dont really need a champion every 2 weeks.


Well, we are having a champion every 3 week since quite a while, and it's better imo.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Qualm
Profile Joined December 2009
721 Posts
October 15 2011 14:16 GMT
#2473
I can't believe they are nerfing Gunblade but not Wota, and that they are leaving Kog/Cait as is.

Hopefully the patch includes more changes than what they have shown in the preview.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 14:39:26
October 15 2011 14:30 GMT
#2474
I'm a little disappointed that apparently no one considers me a name drop with Rioters. Then again, I'm only involved with Player/Tech Support and QA.

As for TL's LoL presence, we have at least 2 Council, 2 Adjudicators 1 Wrenchperson as active posters.

Also, a reminder than sign-up fraud is highly discouraged... If you see people using shady methods to get other people to use their referral link (such as YT Videos claiming to give free RP or something) please pass them on to me through a PM or something.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 15 2011 14:31 GMT
#2475
On October 15 2011 23:16 Qualm wrote:
I can't believe they are nerfing Gunblade but not Wota, and that they are leaving Kog/Cait as is.

Hopefully the patch includes more changes than what they have shown in the preview.

I think that Riot is at least partly mindful of the fact that part of the reason why Kog/Cait are a cut above the rest of the AD carries right now is because of how all 3 of the previous top dogs got nerfed (Ashe, Corki, Vayne all got nerfed one after another), and nerfing Kog/Cait isn't likely to solve any problems, just like nerfing those 3 champs didn't really solve anything.
Moderator
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
October 15 2011 14:43 GMT
#2476
On October 15 2011 21:38 epoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:05 shinarit wrote:
Btw, dont you think its a bit too fast to add champions like this? I mean we already have 80+ champs, if we get much more, balancing will be a hard issue, and getting familiar with all of them is harder still. I played 2-300 games and there are still champs i dont really know (their skills, capabilities). I never met Yorick before this free rotation for example. Also rarely see Trundle, still dont know what his skills doing (read once on the wiki page, but dont really remember). I feel we dont really need a champion every 2 weeks.


I agree with this. It'll be hard to make the champions unique and balanced when there are over 100 of them. Dota has around 103 champions and they release like 4 champions a year. Imo one champion per month would be good for lol


LoLis pretty much very homogenized already, DotA has so many unique champions it's not even funny. In LoL like 80%+ of the champs have 4/5 of the following:

-AoE nuke
-offensive steroid
-defensive move
-mobility move
-snare/stun
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 15:29:56
October 15 2011 15:09 GMT
#2477
On October 15 2011 23:43 rigwarl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2011 21:38 epoc wrote:
On October 15 2011 21:05 shinarit wrote:
Btw, dont you think its a bit too fast to add champions like this? I mean we already have 80+ champs, if we get much more, balancing will be a hard issue, and getting familiar with all of them is harder still. I played 2-300 games and there are still champs i dont really know (their skills, capabilities). I never met Yorick before this free rotation for example. Also rarely see Trundle, still dont know what his skills doing (read once on the wiki page, but dont really remember). I feel we dont really need a champion every 2 weeks.


I agree with this. It'll be hard to make the champions unique and balanced when there are over 100 of them. Dota has around 103 champions and they release like 4 champions a year. Imo one champion per month would be good for lol


LoLis pretty much very homogenized already, DotA has so many unique champions it's not even funny. In LoL like 80%+ of the champs have 4/5 of the following:

-AoE nuke
-offensive steroid
-defensive move
-mobility move
-snare/stun

While I agree with your general point, that 4/5 criteria thing is a bad example given that I don't think more of the champs in LoL fit that template than in DotA. Hell, a lot of the most well-loved DotA heroes like PotM and Storm Spirit fit that template perfectly.

It's about the implementation of the general concepts. Even a newer hero like Windrunner has a pretty boring basic design (point-and-click stun, skillshot AoE nuke, evasion/ms boost, and AS steroid), but it's the little quirks to the design of every skill (e.g. Shackleshot's secondary targeting mechanics) that make the difference.
Moderator
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
October 15 2011 15:17 GMT
#2478
Just watched the patch preview, can anyone explain the part where he talks about kills lower the enemy nexus health until it's at 125 and then goes straight into "what this change will do..."

What's the change? I watched it 3 times and couldn't figure it out
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-15 15:27:18
October 15 2011 15:26 GMT
#2479
One thing that irks me about CC in LoL--why does every offensive utility spell in this game do damage? It seems silly that every stun/snare/etc. has to do damage and has to scale off of something--there are no stuns that JUST stun. I feel like there'd be more design room to play with if they had the room to design high-utility spells that did no damage, because they could sacrifice having damage on a spell to squeeze more utility out of it while keeping it balanced.
Moderator
GranDim
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada1214 Posts
October 15 2011 15:46 GMT
#2480
Fiddle's fear
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