EPT[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 215
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:37 zalz wrote: If that's the best you can come up with "you can stop talking now" Ooh and my elo is 9001 so i trump everyone so it's all cool. On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote: what was your summoner name and elo again? cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:37 zalz wrote: If that's the best you can come up with "you can stop talking now" Ooh and my elo is 9001 so i trump everyone so it's all cool. well he is like 1300 elo so does that make you right instead? also didn't we already go over this? don't argue if you gonna be a bitch. and yous being a bitch #1 don't hate on kat kat is my gal #2 don't hate on redtooth he is the grandfather of bravery #3 don't compare kat to fiddlesticks, fiddlesticks is a tryhard champion, kat is most certainly not. #4 its called timing your fucking ult, no shit if you shunpo in and ult to initiate you're gonna get dumped on, go find the squishy with no cc (i.e. all ranged dps) and go dump on them. kat is not fiddle, she does not initiate, she instead usually goes in after amumu or galio or whoever dumps on a cluster of guys and then she spins to win. #5 who are you again? if you have no proof or expertise that you are willing to say, why are you posting here like a douche without respect for vets? jeeze before i didn't think i'd have to create a category of poster that was below shikyo level but this is like 5 levels below that. true fax high elo is not 800 | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote: *blush* but honestly i'm so terribly bad at every aspect of this game except katarina and nidalee. i just happened to click the thread and see people talking about katarina and i couldn't resist joining in.what was your summoner name and elo again? cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now to respond to zalz - you're simply playing her wrong or have only played versus people who play here wrong. do you expect ww to jump into the middle of everything and initiate with his ult in a 5v5 teamfight? do you expect nunu to flash into the middle of everything and ult? do you expect fiddle to start his ult in the middle of a 10man teamfight? no, you watch for an opportunity to cast your spell. although the correct time to cast changes dependent on the situation, there are undoubtly "better" times to cast your ult then others. beginning of teamfight is rarely the best option unless you are unbelievably fed and are essentially the tankiest member of your team (which with kat does occasionally happen). end of teamfight is just as useless since if you're playing pure cleanup then your team probably didn't even need you anyways. lets take a typical 10man teamfight as a sample scenario. you can choose to jump into the middle off the bat with defensive KI proc and click R. immediately you can imagine how screwed you are because not only are you going to get focused but voracity hasn't proc'd and your shunpo is on cooldown. if you're doing well (which i highly doubt if you initiated with ult) then you can prob make it out alive and do some more damage but most other times you're genuinely screwed. on the other hand, you can choose to stand at the edge of the teamfight using BB+rylais to snare everybody and shunpo'ing around for solid damage. as soon as you see someone who you might be able to kill, you jump onto that person, MOVE INTO POSITION (key since really nobody seems to do it but why wouldn't you want to run and cut off their escape route or away from enemy CC first?), click R, ignite (this is why i think every kat should get ignite - the first voracity proc is most important), get kill, get voracity proc. now this is where the fun starts. the fact of the matter is you probably won't get a full ult off. more often then not i cancel ult myself because people have moved out of range (which is fine because if you're not in range of me then i'm usually not in range of you). however, if you were smart you probably positioned yourself to hit more than 1 hero with lotus thereby doing more damage. you can start the voracity snowball and KI+shunpo+BB to try and pick off heroes or you can shunpo out and run to regroup (movespeed quints). this does sound very heavily theory-crafty but not only does it actually work in practice but it makes so much sense fundamentally. your survivability is directly correlated to your mobility. shunpoing into the middle of the enemy team without getting a voracity proc is guaranteed death. the two other amazing kats i've seen (kobe24 and solanir) have also played very similarly to what i listed above. i checked out scarra (who i haven't personally seen play yet) and he runs movespeed quints instead of defensive quints because he knows that you aren't supposed to just tank the enemy team and get off a maximum ult. i really am a firm believer that CC isn't 10000% more effective against kat. i've played against every teamcomp imaginable with top players all waiting to stun/silence/fear/whatever me and, outside of udyr/garen, there hasn't been any where i feel totally shutdown. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:53 Caller wrote: well he is like 1300 elo so does that make you right instead? also didn't we already go over this? don't argue if you gonna be a bitch. and yous being a bitch #1 don't hate on kat kat is my gal #2 don't hate on redtooth he is the grandfather of bravery #3 don't compare kat to fiddlesticks, fiddlesticks is a tryhard champion, kat is most certainly not. #4 its called timing your fucking ult, no shit if you shunpo in and ult to initiate you're gonna get dumped on, go find the squishy with no cc (i.e. all ranged dps) and go dump on them. kat is not fiddle, she does not initiate, she instead usually goes in after amumu or galio or whoever dumps on a cluster of guys and then she spins to win. #5 who are you again? if you have no proof or expertise that you are willing to say, why are you posting here like a douche without respect for vets? jeeze before i didn't think i'd have to create a category of poster that was below shikyo level but this is like 5 levels below that. true fax high elo is not 800 That's a lot of text considering i really couldn't care less what you think on the matter. User was warned for this post | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:06 redtooth wrote: did you say nerf voracity? why kill kat's only useful skill? Actually I'd prefer they just leave her alone, for like the 30th time THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH UNIQUE CHAMPIONS, especially ones that when selected properly are still absolutely devastating(Scarra's Kat was a huge factor in that RS stomping of CLG, support GP just got all the pub). If they are going to change her though, with some sort of net buff on her ult/skills to be less cc'able I guess(is that what binary is? If she's cc'd she sucks if she isn't she dominates? because that sounds like every useful damage dealing champ ever), then voracity is going to need a tuning or she'll be loltastic. Like, the previously mentioned 'ult that does all damage up front, aka a huge aoe nuke just reduce the damage a bit' with the current voracity would be the biggest joke in the game. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On September 13 2011 07:02 Cixah wrote: So why even acknowledge his post? For not caring about his opinion you sure did post that one line remark rather quickly. Either way kat is a for fun hero. I play her in bot games with friends who are just learning how to play, and she is hilariously fun to just roflstomp 5 people by pressing r. What can i say, im a nice guy. I think it's only fair i let him know i don't read his posts, let him save some time out of his day. Kat is a fun hero, i never disagreed. But that doesn't change much when the subject was wether her ulti is any good or not. Skateboarding is fun, doesn't make it a valid alternative to flying when you want to cross the atlantic. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Why make everything the same. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 13 2011 06:35 zulu_nation8 wrote: http://clgaming.net/live/1601-the-rain-man playing the rain man and dan dinh in 5s LOL We were even winning bot lane vs Brand Janna despite bly hitting like every single Tornado... Kinda sad we lost to that 13-1 (or what was it) Jax. Dan Dinh going CDR Ashe, that guy clearly knows what's up. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 13 2011 07:08 zulu_nation8 wrote: i queued into rain man/dan dinh again with different group and randomed ashe LOL Highlight: Fiddle fearing a Heimer turret. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Also, new Riven Splash Art. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/Sept%202011%20Temp/Riven_Splash_0.jpg) | ||
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rredtooth
5461 Posts
On September 13 2011 07:12 LaNague wrote: i guess you didnt read a single thing i said.i find kat is fine, why cant there be a champ that is strong when the enemy cant interrupt and otherwise is not? Why make everything the same. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
My taric thoughts were simply this- point and click stun, armor buff, combined with an actual useful ult (I like the idea of impassable terrain, would fit with his lore) would make him a VERY strong jungling presence if you chose to go that route. Would he still work as a support bot? You bet your ass he would. But I think about that hypothetical taric the same way I think about the current gangplank- sure he is strong in lane and can shut a lane down, but why do that when you could shut down all 3 lanes? My bad on the last whisper if I worded it poorly. I meant to say that if Riot wants tanky dps to be completely not a problem (ie be terrible again) the simplest way to do that is to reintroduce the last whisper. Cuz thats what would happen. NOTE: I DO NOT THINK IT SHOULD BE IN THE GAME. IT IS NO LONGER NECESSARY. My kat thoughts: kats passive is op. Simple as that. The reason the rest of her skills need to be gimped is simply because that much cdr is gamebreaking. Nothing good can come of that champion if that passive remains the same. Of course, that passive a large part of what makes kat feel the way she does. The reason her ult is so risk reward? If it wasnt, the passive would make her a god. So instead she gets perhaps the most easily countered ult in the game. As overall design, I dislike the idea of an ultimate being completely nullified by anything other than another characters ultimate. You dont get them till level 6, and they are supposed to be strong. I would love to change it somehow to make it less easily countered, and there are ways to do that, such as making it send out damage in three waves instead of over time. But you cant do that with her current passive. So no, I am aware of the reasons kat is where she is late game. You are right about early game though, I forgot how good she was once she got to 7. I kinda would like to see that second back on bb thou, just to make her early levels a hair less rough. I hate vayne w. I understand HOW and WHY the creeps work the way they do mechanically, but it feels wrong to me. This game is all about champions and super strong fighters, but in the actual game they get stomped by puppets?. But do you really think that it would be that big a change in favor of ad carries? They can already sit back and poke at melee all they want. Auto, pause, auto, ect. I actually think that lowering damage would put melee at an advantage, at least melee with gap closers (so basically every melee in the game). Irelia would STOMP if she didnt have to worry about minions. So would javan. Gap close. Stand there beating on the ranged carry with all their abilities. So yes, that change would probably break the game, but not entirely for the reason you think. But I do just HATE the feeling of being less powerful than an npc for the first 10 minutes of the game. That somehow seems wrong to me in a pvp game. | ||
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Aurdon
United States2007 Posts
On September 13 2011 07:36 MoonBear wrote: I'm watching Heimer place turrets over the base wall. I didn't know he could do that. Suddenly, his sieges seem scary. Now just to fit Blitz and Cait in there somehow... Also, new Riven Splash Art. + Show Spoiler + Like the new splash art. Riven now looks badass instead of incredibly awkward. Oh I think I just watched the same Dan Dinh heimer game. He is rather masterful with Heimer as it is. He queued up in a 5v5 so his team was way better than the other team. He was pretty fed by the time they started that seige and the other team couldn't really get close to him because he was so far ahead that his rockets were taking like 25% damage when anyone got close to his turrets. I'm thinking his rockets were more scary than those turrets over the walls. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
Yeah not cool tbh. | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
I understand HOW and WHY the creeps work the way they do mechanically, but it feels wrong to me. This game is all about champions and super strong fighters, but in the actual game they get stomped by puppets?. But do you really think that it would be that big a change in favor of ad carries? They can already sit back and poke at melee all they want. Auto, pause, auto, ect. I actually think that lowering damage would put melee at an advantage, at least melee with gap closers (so basically every melee in the game). Irelia would STOMP if she didnt have to worry about minions. So would javan. Gap close. Stand there beating on the ranged carry with all their abilities. So yes, that change would probably break the game, but not entirely for the reason you think. But I do just HATE the feeling of being less powerful than an npc for the first 10 minutes of the game. That somehow seems wrong to me in a pvp game. It's more like the first 6 (in-game) minutes, and it's not just one, it's 6 npcs :p Creep damage is fine. It stops you from just right clicking to win for the first few levels and adds depth to the laning phase. | ||
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lIlIlIlIlIlI
Korea (South)3851 Posts
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