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On September 13 2011 05:13 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 03:16 STS17 wrote:
add a false patch note saying you fixed some bug that caused her to do less damage then intended. That will cause more people to play her and "discover" her and then you will be asking us how she should be nerfed in the patches following. This made me chuckle. Show nested quote +You may also want to look into a W powered Shunpo making her immune to CC for 2-3 seconds, meaning she is guaranteed to get a little bit of her ult off each time instead just eating a stun/silence immediately. This would be an excessively complicated mechanic. The enemy team would have to somehow time the period of her immunity and instantly cc after that or they would just waste spells. Since the majority of people wont have much precision doing that, this just makes Kat get the majority of her ult off every single time. It also really hurts people in lane phase (low cd + no mana cost = free, unstoppable harass).
Give her an obvious particle effect that makes it clear when she is/isn't immune to the CC? Now you know when the "wait" period is over. It doesn't hurt people in the laning phase too significantly since most of the time she will get 1-2 seconds of her ult off in a 1v1 in the first place unless she shunpos onto a bearstance-ready udyr or something equally foolish.
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Why can't Riot just take a stance on Kat like they did with Vlad and Irelia? Just decide that it's bad champ design and do a re-work of all three characters.
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On September 13 2011 05:44 overt wrote:
Why can't Riot just take a stance on Kat like they did with Vlad and Irelia? Just decide that it's bad champ design and do a re-work of all three characters.
cause kat is not like vlad and irelia?
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United States11768 Posts
Yea, she's only like Vlad.
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On September 13 2011 05:12 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore. 2 things you seem to be somewhat intentionally ignoring: a - you have teammates that also do damage and cause havoc to the enemy team. b - you have other skills beyond your ult, and again, to beat the horse some more, the BEST kat player in the world, WRAWRAWRAWRA made it a point that he rarely used kat's ult, but instead used his brain in conjunction with shunpo, bouncing blades, and kat's imba passive, to secure kills.
Kat is great for cleaning up fights, but the only problem I see with this is if you get all the kills and don't really put out any of the damage until the end of the fight. You might end up in some 1v5 situation where they are all 1/2 hp, but they out number you to the point where you ultimately end up losing the teamfight.
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Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT.
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On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:Riot is fine with you uploading stuff onto YouTube. Some of the Rioters who got hired used to be pretty avid YouTube uploaders too. The ToS also lets you do these things, although for legal completeness it still says that all derivative property belongs to Riot games. This is more for their own protection rather than a clause they use to hunt down people. About the upcoming patch. What would you guys think about these things happening? Legal Disclaimer: This is not what the actual patch looks like.- Taric Ult Aura removed. Replaced with long CD game-changer. Like a point and click shield, or a spell that has 700 range and gives all allies in it a bug shield+armour+mres for 2 seconds. Or something. Would that make Taric players happier? (I know I would be.)
- Bruisers top lane having a re-inspection, especially if they're snowball-y like Udyr, Singed, Morde, Cho, Jax. How would you deal with it? Nerfing early game base values?
- The effectiveness of Wriggles is too damn high. (Like the rent.)
- CassiOPeia is so OP, you can't say her name without saying OP. Fact.
- Karma needs tweaking to become a good contender. Would AP Carry or support be better?
- You all know about Shen and Vlad buffs by now I hope. So won't talk about this.
- Hyrid builds/champions being tuned up. Sion feels sad you only ever use to of his skills.
- Eve and Twitch have their stealth remake soon (tm).
- Morgana has a lot of lane sustain. What if her passive was 5% less?
- Kat is too binary. Either she kills everything or dies. How would you make her still a fun snowball but not to binary in nature?
You guys didn't think you can post this while I'm not around to avoid one of my famous rants, did you?
Taric. SO YOU WANT TO MAKE HIS ULTI INTERESTING? OKAY, HERE YOU GO: (i wanted to suggest this for ages)
-R, Gems, Gems are...
Taric summons the the power innate in his gems to protect an ally from harm, dealing magical damage and creating impassable terrain around him for about 3.5 seconds. During this time, the target gets full benefit from Tarics armor increase from shatter, while Taric loses this bonus. Taric can destroy the impassable terrain by activating this again.
-The snowball solo top thingy:
-Currently, in pretty much any lane (bot/mid is even more retarded sometimes) it goes like this:
One side goes...
1-0. The other side will have a hard time fighting but can come back with superior skill/being op and/or a jungle gank.
2-0 The other side is pretty much fucked and will get zoned/killed again without jungle help.
3-0 A jungle gank will now mean high risk for the jungler and kills are unlikely unless you execute flawlessly.
4-0+ Jungle gank? Thx for doublekill.
How to fix it? Give junglers more paths to gank. If a single ward can shut down my (or other lanes) attempts to fix it, it's kinda broken imho.
-Karma. Ask smashgizbro. Her kit is SO FUCKING FUN as an AP carry. Slight buffs to her Mantracharges and she's great imho.
-Morgana: No, 5% less on her passive wouldn't fix anything.
Morgana has the same problem (why didn't you read my post about this, qq) as Karma has (just her overall kit is slightly weaker atm).
Similar offenders include Zilean, Orianna, Caitlyn and to an even lesser extent Brand and Malzahar.
What trait do all these champs share?
They have a very, very hard time losing lanes hard.
The ability to farm safely from a huge range (Zil/Ori/Cait) or the ability to nuke waves VERY quickly (Karma/Brand/Malz) makes it so that it's hard to press an advantage the enemy laner has over you.
Basicly it goes like "I'm winning atm? Okay, let's pressure!" and "I'm losing atm? Okay, let's shove the lane and do something else while my counterpart has to autoattack them to death."
What makes Morgana stay ahead of that pack is that her E makes it so that she can do whatever the fuck she pleases and - while laughing - run from Ganks, too.
Combine a) Safe farm from pretty strong range when behind, b) Strong zoning when ahead (dat ult, real) and c) can't be fucking ganked. Ever. ... and you have a retardedly strong laner.
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I thought MoonBear/Riot was looking for ways to make Kat less binary but keep the snowball aspect ("How would you make her still a fun snowball but not to binary in nature?"). It's clear if you want to make her more consistent changing her passive is the way to go but that kills off her snowballing during teamfights, which it seems Riot wants to keep.
I'm not sure Riot cares to make Kat useful in serious games.
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Black shield is broken. Plain and simple.
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On September 13 2011 05:46 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:44 overt wrote:
Why can't Riot just take a stance on Kat like they did with Vlad and Irelia? Just decide that it's bad champ design and do a re-work of all three characters. cause kat is not like vlad and irelia?
I have never played Katarina. So, my opinion is pretty much completely worthless.
But from playing against her and from the opinions over the past several pages she seems a lot like Vladimir and Irelia. She's "bad design" in the sense that it seems like a total nightmare to balance her with the kit she has. Of the people who have posted no one seems able to really agree on what could be done to make her better without making her totally broken. I dunno, it feels a lot like Vlad and Irelia to me. If you buff them too much they become game breaking whereas in their current states they just feel really weak.
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On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT. did you say nerf voracity?
why kill kat's only useful skill?
also i hate how people in ranked are all like OMG WHY YOU PICK KAT CC CAN STOP HER ULT. well CC can stop many people's ults. good thing heroes aren't all about their ults. kat has an infinite snare, the potential to double flash, and amazing damage reduc. the only situation where i think she's straight up hard countered is vs garen.
edit: also kat is not like vlad. kat is also REALLY not like irelia (like wtf?). of the other heroes i've played i'd say the closest comparisons to kat would be akali (highly similar) and lee sin (sorta similar) with touches of leblanc.
edit2: "fixing" kat is as easy as fixing her base stats. she just needs higher health, more base damage from abilities (like old shunpo+BB). buffs to KI would make a huge difference and balancing out voracity so that the cooldown proc would be even across assist+kill would be stellar. outside of that i think she's perfectly fine and i'd be sad to see her skillset changed in any way that would effect her playstyle.
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black shield is still broken. not so much in the bruisers, bruisers everywhere times, but its still a broken mechanic like old cleanse.
it was 'fixed' to not remove CC, but that just means its harder to use, not any less powerful
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On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT.
Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti.
If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly.
Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ.
You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others.
When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD.
You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players.
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On September 13 2011 05:23 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:15 Node wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 Requizen wrote:
But... the skirt is her original design. I much prefer the skirt on her than pants, they just look kinda silly on her. Shorts are ok too, Safari Cait ftw. I'm happy with arctic Cait purely because it doesn't have a ridiculously large hat. Resistance Caitlyn is still the best skin imo.
Meh, I just don't think it fits her personality. Original steampunky style? Yes. Sassy sherrif? Yes, but the blue hair and tan suit looks terrible. Civilized huntress? Yes. Pseudo-slavic soldier? Not really Cait's thing. Neither is the Rambo-looking one.
I'm weird, I know, but it just irks me for some reason. It's not off in the silly way of Gentleman Cho'Gath or Leprechaun Veigar, it's supposed to look serious but totally doesn't fit her at all.
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On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT. Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti. If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly. Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ. You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others. When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD. You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players.
what was your summoner name and elo again?
cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now
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The key to playing Katarina is getting her as last pick when the opposing team is very light on cc like Rocksolid did yesterday. If the enemy team is stacked you don't fucking pick her ^_^
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On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT. Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti. If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly. Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ. You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others. When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD. You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players. what was your summoner name and elo again? cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now
Appeal to authority. Just sayin'.
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Bly and spine playing against rain man and dan dihn aranged 5s. TL FIGHTING
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On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.
I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT. Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti. If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly. Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ. You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others. When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD. You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players. what was your summoner name and elo again? cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now
If that's the best you can come up with "you can stop talking now"
Ooh and my elo is 9001 so i trump everyone so it's all cool.
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EPT
