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[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 216

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Vlanitak
Profile Joined November 2009
Norway3045 Posts
September 12 2011 22:52 GMT
#4301
http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=4310427#post4310427
season 1 ends tomorrow :> hopefully I wont have decayed by then
washed
WhiteNights
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States252 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 23:01:13
September 12 2011 22:59 GMT
#4302
On September 13 2011 07:49 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Holy shit, I thought you guys were joking when you guys said there was someone worse than Shikyo.

I hereby formally apologize to Shikyo for all the hatred that I've shown him in the past and redirect it toward zalz.

You should visit the official forums more often.

On September 13 2011 06:24 Mogwai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:
On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:
On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.

I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT.


Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti.

If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly.


Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ.


You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others.

When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD.


You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players.


what was your summoner name and elo again?
cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now

Appeal to authority. Just sayin'.

There's nothing wrong with AtA when it comes to requesting credentials.
May your sky be always clear, may your smile be always bright, and may you be forever blessed for that moment of happiness which you gave to another lonely and grateful heart!
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
September 12 2011 23:01 GMT
#4303
On September 13 2011 06:05 Mogwai wrote:
Black shield is broken. Plain and simple.

This needs to be reiterated because it's true.

And who the fuck is this zalz scrub? lol
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Happy Frog
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia490 Posts
September 12 2011 23:05 GMT
#4304
On September 13 2011 07:36 MoonBear wrote:
I'm watching Heimer place turrets over the base wall. I didn't know he could do that. Suddenly, his sieges seem scary. Now just to fit Blitz and Cait in there somehow...

Also, new Riven Splash Art.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Phew, much better
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
September 12 2011 23:10 GMT
#4305
On September 13 2011 07:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:
playing cait vs rainman/dan dinh again

Oh dear. Glgl.

On September 13 2011 07:47 Lanzoma wrote:
It's more like the first 6 (in-game) minutes, and it's not just one, it's 6 npcs :p

Creep damage is fine. It stops you from just right clicking to win for the first few levels and adds depth to the laning phase.

I tend to agree with this statement. Having a different dynamic in laning based on your level and the creep power creates some interesting scenarios and how you trade with the other person. For the most part, I think lower players don't notice these things as much and at higher levels it gets counted to the individual minion sometimes. So there's also a skill ceiling there too.

@Zalz: Kat's Ult is binary in the sense that if you get an amazing ult off, you can have everything off CD again and potentially get a second one off for an easy penta. (40% CDR means two or three kills/assists and it's off CD again) It also has decent scaling. But if it flops, then that's a lot of dps potential wasted. So either you get a massive amount of damage off, or not much on your ult. That feels wrong in the sense that it offers not enough interaction from a solo standpoint.

I don't normally trust appeal to authority, but people like Smash and Neo on the TL Forum I really respect since they have good experience to back what they say up. They also have a good set of thought process behind their statements. I'm willing to take their view if I'm not experienced there in general.

I think what we need more is a bit more in-depth explanation and clarity. I get the feeling that sometimes we get clashes on these boards because people have some difficulty fully explaining their thought process which causes some things to be lost in translation, whether it be the point or the tone. Depth is always better. If you need a TLDR, you shouldn't be debating theory imoimo.

Also, patch stuff out soon. Have you guys picked up on some of the upcoming changes? Real terror patch huehuehue.

Also, calling it now, but Riven is OP.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 23:18:59
September 12 2011 23:15 GMT
#4306
I even think the minions should do significantly more damage to champions. As moonbear explained, miniondamage/aggro adds depth to the laning phase. And I find tanking minions to control creepwaves rewards passive play too much.

can somone link me to the upcoming changes for s2?
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 23:19:39
September 12 2011 23:19 GMT
#4307
On September 13 2011 05:34 STS17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 05:13 Craton wrote:
On September 13 2011 03:16 STS17 wrote:
add a false patch note saying you fixed some bug that caused her to do less damage then intended. That will cause more people to play her and "discover" her and then you will be asking us how she should be nerfed in the patches following.

This made me chuckle.

You may also want to look into a W powered Shunpo making her immune to CC for 2-3 seconds, meaning she is guaranteed to get a little bit of her ult off each time instead just eating a stun/silence immediately.

This would be an excessively complicated mechanic. The enemy team would have to somehow time the period of her immunity and instantly cc after that or they would just waste spells. Since the majority of people wont have much precision doing that, this just makes Kat get the majority of her ult off every single time. It also really hurts people in lane phase (low cd + no mana cost = free, unstoppable harass).


Give her an obvious particle effect that makes it clear when she is/isn't immune to the CC? Now you know when the "wait" period is over. It doesn't hurt people in the laning phase too significantly since most of the time she will get 1-2 seconds of her ult off in a 1v1 in the first place unless she shunpos onto a bearstance-ready udyr or something equally foolish.

That's not really the point. The entire ult only lasts 3 seconds. Right now, you might get 1-1.5 seconds off against a decent team. Your solution would guarantee as much as double that, plus more. Even if you scale back your cc immunity amount, you still guarantee people will have to wait to cast their cc. This means you're not watching Kat (which also distracts from the rest of what's going on) and trying to react to some particle change; people don't have instant reactions times, thereby guaranteeing you get some amount beyond whatever duration. Further, many CCs have an equal or lesser range than Kat's ult, which makes running out of the damage (to not die) and then back in to CC an excessively complex process. This also makes Kat even more ungankable, as you now have ult for cc immunity into shunpo.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
September 12 2011 23:25 GMT
#4308
On September 13 2011 08:01 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 06:05 Mogwai wrote:
Black shield is broken. Plain and simple.

This needs to be reiterated because it's true.

And who the fuck is this zalz scrub? lol

yo 5hit. i played ur 5 man premade in ranked yesterday. you guys stomped us lol
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-12 23:26:24
September 12 2011 23:26 GMT
#4309
im seriously never getting 5s plat
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
September 12 2011 23:27 GMT
#4310
On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:
On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.

I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT.


Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti.

If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly.


Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ.


You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others.

When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD.


You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players.


what was your summoner name and elo again?
cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now

Hasn't even been a month since Neo and FakeSteve told you to stop with this bullshit.
twitch.tv/cratonz
ArC_man
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States2798 Posts
September 12 2011 23:28 GMT
#4311
On September 13 2011 07:38 Two_DoWn wrote:
I understand HOW and WHY the creeps work the way they do mechanically, but it feels wrong to me. This game is all about champions and super strong fighters, but in the actual game they get stomped by puppets?. But do you really think that it would be that big a change in favor of ad carries? They can already sit back and poke at melee all they want. Auto, pause, auto, ect. I actually think that lowering damage would put melee at an advantage, at least melee with gap closers (so basically every melee in the game). Irelia would STOMP if she didnt have to worry about minions. So would javan. Gap close. Stand there beating on the ranged carry with all their abilities. So yes, that change would probably break the game, but not entirely for the reason you think. But I do just HATE the feeling of being less powerful than an npc for the first 10 minutes of the game. That somehow seems wrong to me in a pvp game.

Never fear, Dominion will *soon* be here!
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
September 12 2011 23:28 GMT
#4312
does someone have a link or hint where to find season 2 changes/rumors?
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 12 2011 23:32 GMT
#4313
I don't feel like Black Shield is that powerful (well, it is, but I'm talking about the feeling while playing) but that may be because I face silencing champions often (BS doesn't block it), against whom I've always had problems. Plus, I'm not skilled enough to predict who'll be focused, so I cast it to save a fleeing ally more often than to keep a carry wrecking stuff or help an ally initiate.
In short, not using it to full potential.

Also, is it me or is TRM easily excited/launched into rant mode? First time I look at his stream I think.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17250 Posts
September 12 2011 23:34 GMT
#4314
Yes; it's why many people don't watch him. Too much being a tool.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 12 2011 23:41 GMT
#4315
Get in game. Dude auto-locks Yi. First thing in chat?

Yi: I'm AP.



...gonna be fun.
It's your boy Guzma!
ArC_man
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States2798 Posts
September 12 2011 23:44 GMT
#4316
I think that's what makes him hilarious and enjoyable to watch. You're not gonna learn much unless you want to learn Udyr or Teemo.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
September 12 2011 23:49 GMT
#4317
On September 13 2011 08:27 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 06:20 gtrsrs wrote:
On September 13 2011 06:11 zalz wrote:
On September 13 2011 05:57 red_ wrote:
Zalz, your argument about Kat's ult is retarded. Everything you have said about it can be said about so many other skills in the game(Useless if XY). If a team holds their CC waiting for you to use your ult, they just lost the team fight. Just because Janna can ruin you(hey look, now we're getting into strategical picks and bans vs BAN THE OP CHAMPS) doesn't mean the ult sucks. Fiddle can get punted away after brostorming into a team, does that mean his ult sucks? Fuck no.

I 100% believe her ult is fine. Voracity is stupid as fuck though. Nerf voracity, and compensate her laning maybe, OR, keep her the same because GOD FORBID SOME CHAMPS BE DIFFERENT.


Different doesn't mean she has to be deprived of having any meaningfull ulti.

If a team holds their CC they just lost the fight. You know i can't help but feel like i am pointing out the obvious here but you do understand that you don't need 5 CC's to shut down her ulti right? You could do something crazy like have 1 guy save his CC just for her. Or mabye if it's a coordinated team it gets decided on the fly.


Fiddle can get knocked away but knockbacks are rare. If there is only 1 champion that can fuck your ulti on the other team then it's easier to catch them out of position. If you are Fiddle you only need to make sure that you play around the Janna. If you are Kat all 5 enemy champs are likely to fuck you over since CC's that break her ulti are on nearly every champ.


You make the mistake of comparing her ulti to Fiddle. If Fiddle jumps right on the enemy team and gets stunned he's still doing his job. Knockbacks counter him but those are not nearly as prevalent as all the others.

When Kat get's knocked back she can flash back in but her ulti is still on CD.


You need to face the music and realise that her ulti is really really bad. Comparing it to other ulti's like Fiddle wich are far more reliable is not a fair argument. She doesn't have Fiddle's ulti, she has the Kat ulti wich is horrible and flat out not useable against good players.


what was your summoner name and elo again?
cause redtooth is now posting ITT so unless you're a higher-level player than he, you can stop talking now

Hasn't even been a month since Neo and FakeSteve told you to stop with this bullshit.


lol don't moral highbrow me
read his bullshit posts, they'reall basically glorified "tl;dr" and he's a moron. just look at his posting history in this thread. comes in, blatantly contradicts a well-known fact or a high-elo player, trolls some, doesn't respond to anything
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
Phrost
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States4008 Posts
September 13 2011 00:05 GMT
#4318
On September 13 2011 08:05 Happy Frog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 07:36 MoonBear wrote:
I'm watching Heimer place turrets over the base wall. I didn't know he could do that. Suddenly, his sieges seem scary. Now just to fit Blitz and Cait in there somehow...

Also, new Riven Splash Art.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Phew, much better


when did she get a goron bracelet?
iamphrost.tumblr.com // http://howtobebettermagicplayer.tumblr.com // twitter @phrost_
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
September 13 2011 00:06 GMT
#4319
On September 13 2011 09:05 Phrost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2011 08:05 Happy Frog wrote:
On September 13 2011 07:36 MoonBear wrote:
I'm watching Heimer place turrets over the base wall. I didn't know he could do that. Suddenly, his sieges seem scary. Now just to fit Blitz and Cait in there somehow...

Also, new Riven Splash Art.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Phew, much better


when did she get a goron bracelet?


She needs to do the quest line to restore her biggoron sword.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
September 13 2011 00:09 GMT
#4320
Jungle Ezreal is so viable, maaan. I have a 2000 ELO friend who's jungling with Ezreal/Twitch/Brand/enter any champion here succesfully... I envy so much ;< always lotta fun
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
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