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sorry i had to go run some errands and i wanted to address this again but sorry for the redirection of the topic flow again :x
On September 13 2011 01:15 Two_DoWn wrote:
Then explain why I'm wrong. Taric already has a strong jungle kit. Giving him an ultimate that could be used in ganks would eliminate any reason to put him bot lane.
I didnt say to add old lw back, mostly because I dont think you need it since bruisers are op. I just threw out the idea to moonbear that would completely eliminate the tanky dps problem he seems to think still exists.
Karma reasoning above.
Kat- Riot has shown in the past they are highly against giving champions strong early games, so the chances that kat gets put back to where she was in terms of laning strength are nil. That leaves her ult. I think that giving players the option of having a full duration ult that does, say 50% less damage or having a full power one that could get interrupted adds an interesting dynamic to her. You could easily balance that as well, since if it is too strong, you just knock the % up further, and dont actually have to change the spell itself, keeping the feel of the champion.
As for minions, I hate the fact that 2 champions, standing and exchanging auttoattacks with each other do LESS DAMAGE TO EACH OTHER THAN THE FREAKIN MINIONS DO TO THEM. ITS PVP, NOT PVE.
why should taric be put in the jungle? how does that make any sense? he's already in the top 3 bot-laning champs. why are we shifting him to the jungle when we already have a ton of champs that jungle fine? why does he need an ultimate that can be used in ganks? he already has a low-cd point and click stun. why are you trying to change a support hero's role?
actually, you said EXACTLY that. unless "reintroduction" means something else to you. you must not have played during the time of the old last whisper because the "carry right clicks your team, pentakill" meta wasn't exactly fun
karma reasoning refuted
riot against strong early games? renekton? rumble? vayne? jarvan? brand? yorick, orianna, lee sin, caitlyn, leblanc. new annie... virtually every hero riot has released recently has been an early game dominator lol. and while we're on the concept of uncancellable ult - all you're seeing is kat's teamfight power. how do you think that will fly in lane? she's already very hard to lane against by level 6/7 if you don't have a way to stop her ult. now you want to make it so NO ONE can stop her ult? she's going to snowball uncontrollably. and THEN once teamfights start you want to make her another faceroll champ? shunpo in, ult can't be stopped, garen-teed kills, shunpo more kills? like what on earth are you thinking? there needs to be some sort of risk-reward balance. risk: very prone position in a channeling ult. reward: extremely high damage. her ult is fine -_______- it honestly wouldn't surprise me if you thought vayne's W was a good skill
you just don't get how laning works is all i see when i read your posts about creep aggro. you use spells when creep waves are even. you auto when you have creep advantage. you back off when you have creep disadvantage. most actual engages in a lane will take place after a small chase sequence, away from creeps. you could quadruple creep damage and good players still wouldn't die to creep aggro because they understand laning mechanics. if you halve the damage that creeps do, guess who benefits from that? ranged carries, who are *already* mostly too strong in these absurdly short LoL lanes. how do you feel when cait can just stand in your creep wave and auto you because she takes 1 and 3 damage respectively from melee and ranged minions?
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Got my Artic Warfare Caitlyn and am most pleased as it's an outfit that doesn't look enitrely silly. Ignoring the whole still kinda skirt deal.
Yes the idea of Cait in a skirt bugs the hell out of me, at least she gets like stalking/pants in this skin.
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Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing.
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But... the skirt is her original design. I much prefer the skirt on her than pants, they just look kinda silly on her. Shorts are ok too, Safari Cait ftw.
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On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing.
no
take this example
you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but
let's say you (get ready here it comes)
wait til the enemies have used their stuns
and THEN jump in and ult
holy -
you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao
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On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao
Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you.
Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore.
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On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore.
*coughvoracitycough*
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On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore.
2 things you seem to be somewhat intentionally ignoring:
a - you have teammates that also do damage and cause havoc to the enemy team.
b - you have other skills beyond your ult, and again, to beat the horse some more, the BEST kat player in the world, WRAWRAWRAWRA made it a point that he rarely used kat's ult, but instead used his brain in conjunction with shunpo, bouncing blades, and kat's imba passive, to secure kills.
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On September 13 2011 03:16 STS17 wrote:
add a false patch note saying you fixed some bug that caused her to do less damage then intended. That will cause more people to play her and "discover" her and then you will be asking us how she should be nerfed in the patches following.
This made me chuckle.
You may also want to look into a W powered Shunpo making her immune to CC for 2-3 seconds, meaning she is guaranteed to get a little bit of her ult off each time instead just eating a stun/silence immediately.
This would be an excessively complicated mechanic. The enemy team would have to somehow time the period of her immunity and instantly cc after that or they would just waste spells. Since the majority of people wont have much precision doing that, this just makes Kat get the majority of her ult off every single time. It also really hurts people in lane phase (low cd + no mana cost = free, unstoppable harass).
re: Wriggles
I think it's a perfectly fine item. If you had to nerf it (and I disagree that you do), then you could change it from a % proc to something that charges up over time (e.g. a proc every 10th second or something). This benefits junglers as it would charge up as they move between camps, but does less for laners who are constantly attacking in lane. Not sure you can find a magic number that doesn't screw over the jungler to nerf the laner, but Riot does this all the time in other ways, so is that really one of their concerns?
Kinda irrelevant to teh Wriggle's discussion but...regarding wards. Riot really should take a leaf out of DotA's book and put freaking timers on wards in the shop. It's just ridiculous how easy it is to get wards and shut down the map.
This horse has been beat to death. The problem is the map, not wards -- there's an entire thread dedicated to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257629
Rather than repeat the same tired arguments here (which have already started in earnest on previous pages), how 'bout going to this thread, instead.
And last, but definitely not least.
League of Legends IS NOT DotA. If you wan't to Play DotA, WC3 and Valve are that way --->. This incessant whining that "DotA does this" "DotA does that" has got to stop. If that's what you want, go play goddamn DotA.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 13 2011 05:11 Frolossus wrote:
*coughvoracitycough*
Which of course, goes back to the issue of Kat being too snowbally.
If your team is ahead, Voracity is like the best passive ever because you can ulti twice, and Shunpo/BB like 10 times in a fight. If your team is losing, it does next to nothing.
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Apparently Shaco is gonna be in the patch preview, bet they changed his dance.
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On September 13 2011 05:01 Requizen wrote:
But... the skirt is her original design. I much prefer the skirt on her than pants, they just look kinda silly on her. Shorts are ok too, Safari Cait ftw.
I'm happy with arctic Cait purely because it doesn't have a ridiculously large hat.
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My solution to champions that get CC focused is to form a team of champions that all need to be CC'd/focused. Jax + Trynd + Kat + Nunu + Morgana (Black Shield lulz).
This is not a real solution.
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On September 13 2011 05:15 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:01 Requizen wrote:
But... the skirt is her original design. I much prefer the skirt on her than pants, they just look kinda silly on her. Shorts are ok too, Safari Cait ftw. I'm happy with arctic Cait purely because it doesn't have a ridiculously large hat.
Resistance Caitlyn is still the best skin imo.
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On September 13 2011 05:12 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore. 2 things you seem to be somewhat intentionally ignoring: a - you have teammates that also do damage and cause havoc to the enemy team. b - you have other skills beyond your ult, and again, to beat the horse some more, the BEST kat player in the world, WRAWRAWRAWRA made it a point that he rarely used kat's ult, but instead used his brain in conjunction with shunpo, bouncing blades, and kat's imba passive, to secure kills.
So the worlds best Kat player admits the ulti is a piece of shit hardly worth using since it breaks whenever someone gives it a mean look.
As much as i like other people doing my work for me, i think the idea of a debate is that you bring out arguments in favour of your position.
Something like "worlds best kat spams ulti all day, so gud".
It's just not a good ulti and the fact that this worlds best Kat doesn't even bother to use it much only seems to support that.
I never argued that the ulti should have CC immunity, that would be ridiculous, but it's currently a terrible ulti wich is near impossible to balance because it shits all over bad players but is utterly worthless against proper players.
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On September 13 2011 05:24 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:12 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore. 2 things you seem to be somewhat intentionally ignoring: a - you have teammates that also do damage and cause havoc to the enemy team. b - you have other skills beyond your ult, and again, to beat the horse some more, the BEST kat player in the world, WRAWRAWRAWRA made it a point that he rarely used kat's ult, but instead used his brain in conjunction with shunpo, bouncing blades, and kat's imba passive, to secure kills. So the worlds best Kat player admits the ulti is a piece of shit hardly worth using since it breaks whenever someone gives it a mean look. As much as i like other people doing my work for me, i think the idea of a debate is that you bring out arguments in favour of your position. Something like "worlds best kat spams ulti all day, so gud". It's just not a good ulti and the fact that this worlds best Kat doesn't even bother to use it much only seems to support that. I never argued that the ulti should have CC immunity, that would be ridiculous, but it's currently a terrible ulti wich is near impossible to balance because it shits all over bad players but is utterly worthless against proper players.
i would venture as far as to say that kats ult requires slightly more coordination from your own team to use well, like scarra managed a few good ults vs CLG for the IEM thing
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I love WRAWRAWRAWRA but it's basically offensive to say that someone who hasn't played the game in like 6-12 months is the best at a certain character, lol. Might as well say that Loaching is still the best Shen, owait, that's probably right cause no one's played Shen since then... FUCK.
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(...)
League of Legends IS NOT DotA. If you wan't to Play DotA, WC3 and Valve are that way --->. This incessant whining that "DotA does this" "DotA does that" has got to stop. If that's what you want, go play goddamn DotA.
Agreed, i know that DotA is only succesful MOBA game besides LoL but seriously people compare these 2 too much,
Riot took different route that Icefrog/Valve when developing LoL and some stuff really would be against Riot's philosophy - which is what makes LoL what it is.
I want to enjoy LoL not some DotA clone, for the latter i'm just going to wait till DotA2
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Katarina + Galio.
Problem solved :D
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On September 13 2011 05:24 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 05:12 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:10 zalz wrote:On September 13 2011 05:05 gtrsrs wrote:On September 13 2011 05:01 zalz wrote:
Kat's ulti is not fine.
It's not high risk high reward, you simply don't deal any damage against anyone with a brain. How is that high risk high reward? You just have a shit ulti that doesn't work against anyone that knows what he's doing. no take this example you might want to sit down for a sec cause i'm about to blow your mind but let's say you (get ready here it comes) wait til the enemies have used their stuns and THEN jump in and ult holy - you okay man? keep breathing. let me get you some water! i know that this is a crazy idea, especially in the context of tactically facerolling your keyboard with 90% of champs in LoL but MAYBE a little discretion when using your ult will make it less binary. not giving it CC-immunity lmao Yeah and if you aren't playing braindead fucking idiots they are going to have a CC in spare for you. Like i said, it works on morons but the moment the enemy gets decent, you are fucked and simply don't have an ulti anymore. 2 things you seem to be somewhat intentionally ignoring: a - you have teammates that also do damage and cause havoc to the enemy team. b - you have other skills beyond your ult, and again, to beat the horse some more, the BEST kat player in the world, WRAWRAWRAWRA made it a point that he rarely used kat's ult, but instead used his brain in conjunction with shunpo, bouncing blades, and kat's imba passive, to secure kills. So the worlds best Kat player admits the ulti is a piece of shit hardly worth using since it breaks whenever someone gives it a mean look.
The better your opponent, the worse it is. It completely rapes everyone from mid to low Elo -- this is the epitome of bad design.
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EPT
