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On September 13 2011 04:10 spinesheath wrote:
Because buing a consumable invis item is so much cheaper than buying a pink ward which not only opens up lanes for ganks, but also serves as a - gosh - ward.
Basically a pink ward does rougly the same as this smoke of deceit for 25 gold. Slightly less powerful, but perfectly appropriate for LoL.
If Riot wants to change oracles, I personally would make them cheaper (300 gold?), but with a timer (4 minutes?) AND the loss on death.
(but that change would make me question the existance of pink wards)
By the way guys, you need 3 wards to cover bottom lane properly. Purple can do with 2, but then they lack a Dragon ward and can't push the lane. So don't give me this "only need 1 or 2 wards" crap. Top only needs 2, and if you finish with another 2 in mid you covered the whole map. But that's 7 wards. 525 gold every 3 minutes. Not all that cheap.
The problem with pink ward is that when you counter-ward, the other team can see you counter warding and then respond with their own pink ward/oracles. After you kill their ward, you can't really follow up with a gank immediately 'cause they will know you're there. Smoke circumvents all that. It's also pretty darn cheap; it costs 100 gold, which is 2-3 creep kills in DotA.
Also, 525 gold every 3 minutes isn't all that cheap, but in the current meta with the support pretty much dedicated to warding+the jungler having a semi-support role throwing out 525 gold for wards every 3 minutes is pretty easily accomplished.
I mean, honestly, just look at any pro level game. Wards will lock down the lanes for ganking for a huge amount of time. The only time teams will ever engage during laning is for dragon or if one side makes a huge mistake (which is rare in high level play). The simple fact is that LoL is passive in the early game and that's boring to watch.
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On September 13 2011 04:10 spinesheath wrote:
Because buing a consumable invis item is so much cheaper than buying a pink ward which not only opens up lanes for ganks, but also serves as a - gosh - ward.
Basically a pink ward does rougly the same as this smoke of deceit for 25 gold. Slightly less powerful, but perfectly appropriate for LoL.
If Riot wants to change oracles, I personally would make them cheaper (250 gold?), but with a timer (4 minutes?) AND the loss on death.
By the way guys, you need 3 wards to cover bottom lane properly. Purple can do with 2, but then they lack a Dragon ward and can't push the lane. So don't give me this "only need 1 or 2 wards" crap. Top only needs 2, and if you finish with another 2 in mid you covered the whole map. But that's 7 wards. 525 gold every 3 minutes. Not all that cheap.
lololol briton
k let me show you why oracles at 250 gold is stupid:
oracles gives you vision of all stealth champions. Eve is already useless, and so is twitch and shaco. That is all. Who cares if its only for 4 minutes. Just two gp5 items and you have enough money to restore the duration every single time.
Oracles needs to be more fucking expensive, because supports do not lose gold. The cost is 775 in DotA, and in DotA you lose gold. Why is it 50% less cost in this game? (admittedly you have half as much gold per creep, but you don't lose gold, and you have gp5 items.)
Pink wards need to be used for antiwarding. There should be a tradeoff between defensive minded green wards and offensive minded pink ones. Offense should not cost twice as much as defense.
Next:
No, you only need 1 damn ward. Each lane only needs one damn ward to stop any ganks whatsoever.
Top lane puts it a bit south of their bush.
Mid lane puts it on entrance to their jungle from river
Bot lane puts it a bit north of their bush
you now have 0 chance of getting ganked, unless you're retarded.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:10 spinesheath wrote:
If Riot wants to change oracles, I personally would make them cheaper (300 gold?), but with a timer (4 minutes?) AND the loss on death.
(but that change would make me question the existance of pink wards)
Oracle's Extract in Dominion does that. Depending on how well it's received, there is the distinct possibility that this may be moved to Summoner's Rift as well.
I am told Patch Notes/Preview up soon. Real terror huehuehue.
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On September 13 2011 04:22 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:10 spinesheath wrote:
If Riot wants to change oracles, I personally would make them cheaper (300 gold?), but with a timer (4 minutes?) AND the loss on death.
(but that change would make me question the existance of pink wards) Oracle's Extract in Dominion does that. Depending on how well it's received, there is the distinct possibility that this may be moved to Summoner's Rift as well. I am told Patch Notes/Preview up soon. Real terror huehuehue.
MOONBEAR WHY YOU IGNORE ME I RIOTS BEST FRIEND
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On September 13 2011 04:21 Caller wrote:
Next:
No, you only need 1 damn ward. Each lane only needs one damn ward to stop any ganks whatsoever.
Top lane puts it a bit south of their bush.
Mid lane puts it on entrance to their jungle from river
Bot lane puts it a bit north of their bush
you now have 0 chance of getting ganked, unless you're retarded.
noob here
wouldnt mid need 2 wards?
edit: if you took out oracles and only left in the dominion oracles that is on a timer would that make you happy caller?
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On September 13 2011 04:24 Attakijing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:21 Caller wrote:
Next:
No, you only need 1 damn ward. Each lane only needs one damn ward to stop any ganks whatsoever.
Top lane puts it a bit south of their bush.
Mid lane puts it on entrance to their jungle from river
Bot lane puts it a bit north of their bush
you now have 0 chance of getting ganked, unless you're retarded.
noob here wouldnt mid need 2 wards? edit: if you took out oracles and only left in the dominion oracles that is on a timer would that make you happy caller?
I´m no high elo player but I always try to hug the side I ward in mid so I only need 1 ward.
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On September 13 2011 04:24 Attakijing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:21 Caller wrote:
Next:
No, you only need 1 damn ward. Each lane only needs one damn ward to stop any ganks whatsoever.
Top lane puts it a bit south of their bush.
Mid lane puts it on entrance to their jungle from river
Bot lane puts it a bit north of their bush
you now have 0 chance of getting ganked, unless you're retarded.
noob here wouldnt mid need 2 wards? edit: if you took out oracles and only left in the dominion oracles that is on a timer would that make you happy caller?
why would mid need two wards, mid is fucking impossible to gank 90% of the time as it is. Coming from the other side (through that bush path, not up the ramp) exposes you to at least one tower hit, and gives you plenty of warning if you are in a position that is in danger by such a gank.
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Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming.
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On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming.
If they play more passive they basically are telling the other guy "oh look feel free to zone the fuck out of me because i'm too scared to contest the creeps" and they will lose. It encourages riskier play, otherwise you end up losing.
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On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming.
There are lots of schools of thought on this, some say it'll promote more active play, some say it'll make it more passive, truth of the matter is that no one knows.
Personally, I have no problem with wards, I have problems with CV and think a lot of the points about lanes needing more ganking paths are pretty accurate.
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On September 13 2011 04:32 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming. If they play more passive they basically are telling the other guy "oh look feel free to zone the fuck out of me because i'm too scared to contest the creeps" and they will lose. It encourages riskier play, otherwise you end up losing.
But then they just get ganked because they don´t see the jungler coming.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:23 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:22 MoonBear wrote:On September 13 2011 04:10 spinesheath wrote:
If Riot wants to change oracles, I personally would make them cheaper (300 gold?), but with a timer (4 minutes?) AND the loss on death.
(but that change would make me question the existance of pink wards) Oracle's Extract in Dominion does that. Depending on how well it's received, there is the distinct possibility that this may be moved to Summoner's Rift as well. I am told Patch Notes/Preview up soon. Real terror huehuehue. MOONBEAR WHY YOU IGNORE ME I RIOTS BEST FRIEND
Oh, that was you? LOL. I was kinda busy at the time with the AoE Bug so I ignored you so I could get stuff done without any distractions. Dw, you're not ignored anymore. 
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I kinda feel like Caller is trolling.
He should know about the possibility to gank from more than one direction.
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On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming.
this is the same argument riot ussed to keep flash. "game would get too passive".
When you play passive in lane the enemy gets all the creeps he wants and you dont, so you lose. Also, your lane might start pushing, because they always fluctuate since random creeps walk into your tower sometimes. Since you cant deny, you cant control this and then you cant play passive or you have to stay out of xp range.
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On September 13 2011 04:40 spinesheath wrote:
I kinda feel like Caller is trolling.
He should know about the possibility to gank from more than one direction.
Caller trolling? that sounds so absurd, he would never do something like that.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming.
People play passive now because they don't lose that much from being slightly more passive. They lose few to no creeps because the lack of ways to pull the lane back means that if you stay back a bit, the lane still pushes to you and you miss relatively few creeps. Contrast this with DotA, where denying allows the opposing laner to pull the lane back, and just waiting away from the creeps when you're at risk just results in you getting no farm at all, because denying allows the opposing laner to pull the lane back, or at least slow the rate at which it pushes to you.
The argument "if there's greater risk people play even more passive" doesn't work because eventually you reach the point where playing passive is making you lose way more than the risk aversion worth, so you're forced to take risks.
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On September 13 2011 04:41 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:30 JackDino wrote:
Btw, lets say you remove wards from the game, wouldn´t people play even more passive in fear of ganks since they can´t even see them coming. this is the same argument riot ussed to keep flash. "game would get too passive". When you play passive in lane the enemy gets all the creeps he wants and you dont, so you lose. Also, your lane might start pushing, because they always fluctuate since random creeps walk into your tower sometimes. Since you cant deny, you cant control this and then you cant play passive or you have to stay out of xp range.
So why would you play even more agressive when there is more risk involved if there are no wards compared to now where you can even push all day and see the jungler come.
I really don't understand why anyone would want to get all agressive just because they lose their vision. Whenever you play or watch streams people always go "don't push/get back etc etc we have no wards we don't know where they are". When wards will be nerfed you magically stop caring where everyone is and just do whatever?
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Caller is secretly making contacts to that he can make the Tri-bunglade-force a reality.
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On September 13 2011 04:44 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 04:40 spinesheath wrote:
I kinda feel like Caller is trolling.
He should know about the possibility to gank from more than one direction. Caller trolling? that sounds so absurd, he would never do something like that.
Post of the year imo
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United States47024 Posts
On September 13 2011 04:47 JackDino wrote:
So why would you play even more agressive when there is more risk involved if there are no wards compared to now where you can even push all day and see the jungler come(not talkign about warding, I really don't understand why anyone would want to get all agressive just because they lose their vision. Whenever you play or watch streams people always go "don't push/get back etc etc we have no wards we don't know where they are". When wards will be nerfed you magically stop caring where everyone is and just do whatever?
When you have no wards, you have to take risks to get your farm because you're at risk 100% of the time. As it is right now, you have no risk = get farm, and at risk = back off and cede farm. The amount of time where you're at risk isn't significant enough, so you can afford to give up that farm for increased safety without putting yourself too behind.
If there are no wards, it becomes inconceivable to play like that because you're at risk 100% of the time. You have to get your farm during some time of risk or you cede all your farm.
It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to play more aggressive on an individual level, but it does mean that because the same level of aggression comes with higher risk, that shit is going to happen more often.
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EPT
