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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On September 13 2011 01:15 Two_DoWn wrote: As for minions, I hate the fact that 2 champions, standing and exchanging auttoattacks with each other do LESS DAMAGE TO EACH OTHER THAN THE FREAKIN MINIONS DO TO THEM. ITS PVP, NOT PVE. Personally, I find that to be a compelling game mechanic. It adds depth to laning. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:01 Seuss wrote: Personally, I find that to be a compelling game mechanic. It adds depth to laning. Ya I mean I understand it rationally as a game mechanic, but irrationally it just seems wrong. | ||
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Iskusstvo
United Kingdom323 Posts
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Craton
United States17233 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:00 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno. I just feel like shit as her cuz i re, w&q, then are faced with the choice of rq for a heal and lose a HUGE chunk of damage or re and not have a heal. needs more rw IMO. there's a lot of depth to Karma's late game mantra usage. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. The fact that you can't just faceroll all your abilities and be sure you played optimally is extremely compelling to me, it's why I love Karma so much. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On September 13 2011 01:32 arnath wrote: I think Exhaust needs to be changed somehow. At this point, if you commit to a fight (especially as a melee hero) and your opponent has Exhaust and you don't, you're going to die 100%. If you make it on to an enemy carry in a fight, they should have to make some kind of play to get out of that, not just "haha, press D, win". Also, top lane is stupid. Virtually every hero that's commonly played solo top can completely ignore harass from their opponent and just afk farm waves by level 7 or so. At no point in lane in DotA could you just run past your opponent to kill a creep wave while he spammed autoattacks/spells at you and be fine, but this happens ALL the time in League. Exhaust is fine just get a QSS. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:00 Two_DoWn wrote: I dunno. I just feel like shit as her cuz i re, w&q, then are faced with the choice of rq for a heal and lose a HUGE chunk of damage or re and not have a heal. You know, champs like Brand couldn't heal no matter how hard they tried. Use your brain and the skill that is best in a given situation. You can argue that her skills are weak (Mogwai disagrees), but you sure as hell can't say she's bad because she has OPTIONS. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
And spine, its more the fact that I feel there IS no right choice there. Because you have a heal, you feel responsible for using it, but the trade off is losing the ability to do your actual job in the game. | ||
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Southlight
United States11761 Posts
different heroes do different things. Comparing all AP heroes to Brand is a joke. Surprise surprise, Morgana is not a pure damage dealer (although she certainly packs a punch). Surprise surprise, Anivia actually outputs some low damage for an "AP carry." And so on and so forth. That does not meet that the Anivias and Karmas of the world output no damage, but they're beloved for effects other than just their damage. So, too, would be the case for Orianna, except Riot decided that she should also have a lot of damage, so people forget the fact that she, too, has a speed buff/debuff, shield, and a really nice AoE stun that ignores Tenacity. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
Thank you for your useful input. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
There´s no reason to remove or change Exhaust if you can just QSS it, carries die way more without exhaust aswell. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:17 Two_DoWn wrote: But if you are playing as an ap carry, wouldnt it be your responsibility to do a ton of magic damage? What good is a bit of extra slow compared to another huge e? If you want utility, why bother playing her as an ap carry? I just dun get that. And spine, its more the fact that I feel there IS no right choice there. Because you have a heal, you feel responsible for using it, but the trade off is losing the ability to do your actual job in the game. you're getting really hung up on the role. As utah's saying, if all you care about is fucktarded damage, just play brand and annie, boom, problem solved. But you watch Loci rape face with Morgana and it shows that there can be more to an AP carry than just stupid AoE damage. Solo mid Zilean fluctuates in and out of popularity, but he's never ever ever going to do the damage from mid lane that Brand will do. That's not the point, the point is that these odd picks offer up different play options from the "we all-in on getting a good tibbahhhhhhhhh." | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:17 Two_DoWn wrote: But if you are playing as an ap carry, wouldnt it be your responsibility to do a ton of magic damage? What good is a bit of extra slow compared to another huge e? If you want utility, why bother playing her as an ap carry? I just dun get that. And spine, its more the fact that I feel there IS no right choice there. Because you have a heal, you feel responsible for using it, but the trade off is losing the ability to do your actual job in the game. isn't this kind of the same argument for why pick ashe when vayne does more damage? | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On September 13 2011 01:11 Caller wrote: + Show Spoiler + bring back old gangplank i like kat's w, this game has too few healing reduction as it is, which since the game is rewarding fucking sustain assholes, is a good way to say sup. Seriously though, this game has favored dumb champs with some sort of sustain in top lane. Sustain in general I feel is too strong on everybody but the guys who need it the most-melee dps like Master Yi (Jax does not count, that guy gets 3k hp from building nothing but gunblades). Let's take a look at sustain: spell vamp: good idea in theory, but shit in execution. When spells fucking SCALE and have CDR, combined with the revamped increased base mana regen, it makes casters so much stronger and lets them sit in lane for three hours. Spell vamp is the reason why people hate vlad, and now with shit like gunblade morde becoming popular (fuck that build its stupid) it should be obvious that spell vamp is a broken mechanic. People with a low-risk passive sustain (warwick, udyr, irelia). It'd be fine if the sustain required them to take a risk/cost to get off (for example, morde's shield costs hp, kayle's heal drains her tiny mana pool, nasus/xin zhao has to actually hit things while unprotected, Morgana's abilities have high cooldowns for their spell vamp), but look. Warwick can q a creep for 20% of his hp. Udyr can steal life AND mana while having a fucking shield. Irelia can press R and heal herself to full hp every 40 seconds. And I'm leaving out all the people with dumb shields (Rumble, Jarvan, Morgana to an extent). Support champs. My personal enemy, but we'll leave that aside for now. The problem with support champs is this: they're fucking unavoidable. Let's look at DotA for example. There are three ways to get into bottom lane between the two towers, and two ways to get in between first and second towers. This means that to spot incoming enemies properly, one would need to ward twice. In LoL, you only need to ward one area, really. This shit encourages passive play. On top of that, supports combined with flash make a lane virtually impossible to gank. Again, more passive play. The idea of short cooldown, no penalty heals is broken. Not to mention the non-stop cc that inevitably happens from having short cd abilities that supports can friggin spam. There is no need for either side to take risks, because the risks are too high for a reward that is too uncertain and too low. Again, passive, boring as fuck play. Mechanics that will make me happy, end the inanity, and give me a hard on. -Remember that "CANNOT BE SLOWED" shit? Remember how fucking awesome it was? Put it back. There was nothing quite as satisfying as watching some cocky asshole range dps with red buff get his ass whipped by the power of CANNOTBESLOWED Demacia. -Healing Reduction. Put this shit back. The more of it there is, the weaker the sustain assholes get, the happier I am, the more fun this game is. Anti-CC. I'm not talking about Irelia herp cannot be stunned, I'm talking about champions that either get more buff or in some way penalize the enemy based on if they are ccd or not. Like CC chains are too damn strong right now and prevent ganks. Make a champ with a mechanic, call it like, I dunno, Bloodlust. Maybe it'd be like this. Bloodlust. When Bloodlust is active, if Champion is stunned/slowed/whatever, he gets even more furious for blood, increasing movement speed/attack speed/lifesteal by X and reducing the effect of future CC by X. Or maybe something like this. Can't Touch This. Being CCd gives X Champion Can't Touch This for 3 seconds. He is immune to CC while he can't be touched. DUN DUN DUN DUN OHHH DUN DUN OHHH DUN DUN OHHH DUN. -Buff Breaking. Too many "buff" type abilities are castable without any sort of fear from a purge or something like that that would be well needed. It's retarded how you can put 5000000 shields and attack speed boosts and etc. etc. etc. on a single champ without fear of reprisal. While I'm not saying we should put Medusa into the game, I feel that breaking a "protect the ranged dps with 500000 shield" would be a good thing for the game since shields just promote low risk high reward play. Have like a champion that breaks all buffs on a target and deals damage based on the amount of buffs removed. Or maybe a champ that steals buffs from a target and takes them for himself. Because while I understand that people don't like mana burn because it makes you feel "helpless" against certain enemies, I can tell you I feel just as helpless against an annie or alistar as I do against a fed antimage with diffusal blade. This will not only make supports weaker while still keeping their utility, but it will make bottom lane a hell lot less boring and might even encourage new strategies aside from HERP DERP SOLO TOP AND MID DPS SUPPORT BOT JUNGLER. Funny enough, Medusa had mana shield, like, the god of shields(except repel, repel OP). But, her being ridiculous in LoL aside, a purge mechanic would be awesome(hello diffusal blade, how awesome are you?). I'd love to see a Nether Ward mechanic as well(pretty sure Riot has said 100% no to this before though, they consider it a 'negative reward' type mechanic and are entirely against it). Also every idea listed that would essentially turn Kat into 'random AP carry X just doesn't use mana,' is retarded. 'Lower ult damage by a little but make it a huge burst' ... TOTALLY UNIQUE IDEA, AN AOE ULT THAT DOES UP FRONT DAMAGE(also, the repercussions of this would be hilariously OP... no channel time and burst = more kills = more passive procs = far more overall damage = Kat becomes even more binary, you have health < shunpo+ult your team dies, you have health > that Kat doesn't engage you ever). | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:39 Mogwai wrote: you're getting really hung up on the role. As utah's saying, if all you care about is fucktarded damage, just play brand and annie, boom, problem solved. But you watch Loci rape face with Morgana and it shows that there can be more to an AP carry than just stupid AoE damage. Solo mid Zilean fluctuates in and out of popularity, but he's never ever ever going to do the damage from mid lane that Brand will do. That's not the point, the point is that these odd picks offer up different play options from the "we all-in on getting a good tibbahhhhhhhhh." I feel its a bit different from that though. Karma is the only ap carry that forces you to chose between utility and damage like that. Ori has both for free. Morg and zilean are the same. I guess thats the point im trying to get at. Karma is the only utility carry that makes you chose between the 2 roles in a teamfight, and she is weaker than the rest because of it. As for the vayne/ashe comparison, its a bit different than that. This is the equivalent of ashe q making it so autoattacks dont do damage, but she still gets a slow. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
Right now 1) Kat is a good target to CC anyways 2) She ports right into the middle of your team, making it easy 3) If she builds to survive that, she's either really fed or doesn't do any damage. Basically, channels on assassin type champs are bad ideas. Nunu ult is fine because he usually builds tanky and accomplishes quite a bit even if he doesn't ult anyone. His ult is mostly there to make people worry about it, to save some cc. It impacts the game without needing to be used. Kat's ult just damages people, when everything else she has damages people. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 13 2011 02:55 Tooplark wrote: If somehow Kat's ult forced people to take a risk to stop it. Right now 1) Kat is a good target to CC anyways 2) She ports right into the middle of your team, making it easy 3) If she builds to survive that, she's either really fed or doesn't do any damage. Basically, channels on assassin type champs are bad ideas. Nunu ult is fine because he usually builds tanky and accomplishes quite a bit even if he doesn't ult anyone. His ult is mostly there to make people worry about it, to save some cc. It impacts the game without needing to be used. Kat's ult just damages people, when everything else she has damages people. kat can do perfectly enough damage throughout the game with just rylais deathcap and void staff (in that order for stages of the game basically) hell in early game you can get away on just base damage if you have to kat usually builds a few tanky items + KI/shunpo so she isn't exactly a squishy assassin | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote: Riot is fine with you uploading stuff onto YouTube. Some of the Rioters who got hired used to be pretty avid YouTube uploaders too. The ToS also lets you do these things, although for legal completeness it still says that all derivative property belongs to Riot games. This is more for their own protection rather than a clause they use to hunt down people. About the upcoming patch. What would you guys think about these things happening? Legal Disclaimer: This is not what the actual patch looks like.
I'll address them in order. Taric's ult isn't necessarily bad, it's niche. It's really good on pushing teams, because you can down towers really quickly with someone like sivir or WW on the team well. If your team doesn't have a lot of AD on it then his ult isn't too great, but that's a tradeoff you make by not building a synergistic team composition. If you insist on changing it then you need to be careful, a targeted shield would be a good way to save someone or let someone initiate safely, but is kind of uninteresting for an ultimate. Either it's Karma's E without mantra or it's some super huge shield that essentially makes the target immune to damage for the duration but still free to act, which would also be boring. A short duration Shield + Defense buff area of effect? Sounds like an anti-initiation / counter-burst move which could be interesting, but may work out in practice to be a shorter version of maokai's ult but without the big explosion at the end. Champions too snowbally in top? My immediate reaction is to tell the opposing team to suck less and not feed them. But let's be honest that's not always possible. Why is it always resorting to nerfs though? How about buffing some of the people they walk all over? A lot of the guys you mentioned are taken top specifically because they dominate the lane. If you remove that dominance, where will they go? My point is don't nerf the strong champions, buff the weaker ones. Yeah. Wriggles is pretty damn cost effective, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that all of its stats scale well with each other. That being said, increasing the upgrade cost of the item may be a better way to reduce it's cost effectiveness than reducing the stats it gives. Or perhaps making the cooldown on the ward longer than the duration of the ward itself. This causes the item to "pay for itself" slower and also prevents the player from having a permanent spot on the map with a ward located there (assuming of course it isn't just killed). Cass is strong in the lane, but who says there's anything wrong with that? If you insist on nerfing her, perhaps simply increasing the time it takes for her Q to explode will be all that is needed. This gives opponents more time to get out of the way so hitting those essential Qs for her combos becomes slightly more difficult. Overall, this will make her easier to lane against as a competent player, she will still be strong against weaker players who can't dodge her Qs, and her effectiveness in teamfights remains untouched because you haven't touched her damage at all. Karma is fine the way she is, fix her mantra bug and add a false patch note saying you fixed some bug that caused her to do less damage then intended. That will cause more people to play her and "discover" her and then you will be asking us how she should be nerfed in the patches following. Alternatively, have her passive also increase the rate at which mantra is gained when her health is lower. Her passive already suggests she likes fighting at low health levels, since that is where she gets the most benefit out of her passive, why not let her use all of her abilities at her full potential more often while she is weaker? Or, give her a mantra stack on a kill or assist. I still believe the false patch note and bug fix is all she needs. This is my comment on the shen and vlad buffs. This is me not talking about it. Sion is a weird hybrid champion, his E increases the effectiveness of his R but neither has any synergy with his Q and W. Want to hybridize him more? Let his ult give spellvamp also and have it add a percentage of his ability power to his auto attacks while active. Perhaps look into having that percentage increase when you have more AD. I bet we won't see the stealth remake coming. If her passive was 5% less than she wouldn't have as much lane sustain. But her strength doesn't lie in her lane sustainability (not solely at least). Gaps in lane sustain can be made up with via philostone or health potions. Her primary lane strengths is her ability to farm and push a lane and be completely ungankable at the same time. Kat is binary because without gold she can't survive during her ult. Without gold her ult does no damage. If you want her to not be completely useless without getting fed early, increase the base damage of her ult (perhaps by increasing the damage bonus from W). You would have to reduce the scaling from AP/AD on her ult as well to keep her from snowballing too hard as well. Increasing her baseline defenses, will help her survive a little better when getting inside an enemy team, which gives her more time to do the damage she needs to to be relevant. You may also want to look into a W powered Shunpo making her immune to CC for 2-3 seconds, meaning she is guaranteed to get a little bit of her ult off each time instead just eating a stun/silence immediately. Those are some initial thoughts on how I would look into addressing the problems you are claiming to have. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On September 13 2011 01:06 gtrsrs wrote: twodown you have the worst ideas you know how you're always saying "hire me riot and i'll fix your game" i agree 100% you should be hired and everything you say balance-wise, riot should do the opposite. creeps should do double damage, if kat does w + r her ult should fizzle, last whisper should give you reduced attack speed, taric should have NO ult, and karma's scaling should be doubled. seriously. i would prefer these changes to the ones you listed. i would prefer for kat's ult to fizzle than for it to be uninterruptable. you just have no idea about the scope of the changes you listed (and list, frequently) and it's so annoying i love two_down's balance posts lol, it's not like I'm in a position to talk shit about anybody but they are always hilarious | ||
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