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in fact twitch is one of the only carries you don't want to jump on and stand and fight in a 1v1 because of his poison/nuke
This kinda boogles me .... Twitch is notorious for being squishiest champ who drops dead if some1 sneezes in his direction. His Psn passive + skill is efficient after 5-6 stacks so it's kinda delayed nuke . He is also slow and usualy runs boots +5 thus during fights he moves with boots +2 and his low base speed . You can cast debilitate to slow attacker and try kite , but until you get enough stacks to see effect and then woggle 200-300 distance said bruisers gap closer will be off CD again .
PS: Jungle Twitch works fine . Check out solo Mid , BUT he needs good blue leash .
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On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:- Bruisers top lane having a re-inspection, especially if they're snowball-y like Udyr, Singed, Morde, Cho, Jax. How would you deal with it? Nerfing early game base values?
Ihmo they're fine 'cause if you put them top there's a reason. If you don't want them to snowball, jungler has to gank them, right ?
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:- The effectiveness of Wriggles is too damn high. (Like the rent.)
No. 
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:- Kat is too binary. Either she kills everything or dies. How would you make her still a fun snowball but not to binary in nature?
From the experience I had playing her, her W is almost useless. Changing it could help.
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Gonna first day buy Riven here. What do you guys think you're going to build her? I'm up between straight AD carry (Going Blade -> Boots (Mercs) -> BFS weapon ->LW -> whatever), and tanky dps build like Garen focusing on early game dominance and getting Atma's soon.
I mean, yeah we have to wait for playtesting, but it's fun to theory craft.
What I figure is:
- Her dash/shield scales from 1.0 AD (Xypherous said probably absorb 2 nukes), so straight AD items will also be nice for tanky builds.
- High mobility kind of lowers the necessity for tanky items, as her Q helps her get in and out of fights, she can stun, and her dash makes her tougher.
- With the previous point in mind, I feel she falls somewhere between Assassin and Fighter, more damage than a tanky dps but more survivable than a squishy assassin like Talon or Kat.
- With her high damage abilities and AD steroid Ult, lifesteal might be completely insane on her with something like Bloodthirster as a core or a quick Wriggles/Bilgewater in the early game. I could be wrong, of course.
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On September 12 2011 22:59 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2011 16:59 Southlight wrote:
Can stomp non-jumpers but he gets obliterated by all jumpers. don't you constantly say as a disclaimer that you don't play ranged ADs and you actually don't really have any knowledge about them? twitch does fine in a solo, even top, even against bruisers. in fact twitch is one of the only carries you don't want to jump on and stand and fight in a 1v1 because of his poison/nuke
I put the disclaimer because some people consider me fairly knowledgeable about the game, but in the case of ranged AD they're so far away from my mindset/playstyle that there's blatantly no way in hell I'm going to come even close to the locodocos in terms of knowledge and know-how. Still, I say I don't/can't play ranged AD but I generally play a pretty decent one (by which I mean passable at 16/1700), and can and will stomp lesser players just because I have pretty good micro and positioning... at least, when I'm not losing my mind and going into initiate mode.
I think his poison/nuke makes him stomp a lot of heroes (the same way Teemo does) but I find that most jumpers have comparable nuking damage, such that Twitch can punish idiots that underestimate passive/expunge but usually ends up worse for the trade. I'm primarily thinking of Irelia, Jarvan, and Lee Sin, none of whom should lose to Twitch 1v1 during laning.
"All" was bad word choice though. I have a terrible tendency to use TOO generalizing words when I don't mean to
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From the experience I had playing her, her W is almost useless. Changing it could help.
Kinda true . During laning ppl lvl Q E . Thou end game max W gives you like 30% dmg reduction on shumpo ? Thus kat doesn't explode instantly when W -> E -> R + Spell vamp from gunblade / wota etc during teem fights.
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If you want Kat to not be so binary you have to change her ult significantly. It does 580 (rank 1 W + rank 1 R) damage to one target at level 6, going up to over 1k at level 16 (with 2.5 AP scaling and 5.0 AD scaling per target, lol). The only other skills with that kind of single-enemy damage are Nunu and Brand's ults, and Brand's requires some crazy luck (and usually an opponent misplaying against it) to actually hit the same target 3 times.
I don't play Kat so I don't have any suggestions, but the numbers make it pretty obvious why her ult means she's problematic right now. Nunu can get some use out of his ult even if it's going to end up being canceled because it's still a large AoE slow and he's around to soak damage and peel (so other than stopping his ult hitting him is generally not useful). Kat is around to kill champs, and that's it (so bursting her is always a good idea, not just to stop her ult).
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IMO wr should make the ult uniteruptable, but do 25% less damage. Add in a choice to go full for their whole team with it up the whole time but do less damage, or take the risk.
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Well I mean Kat's issue is pretty easy to pinpoint, the question is simply up to designers on how they want to fix her. Every hero that uses a channel-based ult to output most of their teamfight effect is binary. That's why people didn't like Fiddle - his ult was all he had for a while, and so he was very binary. Then they buff his other shit, but don't nerf his ult, so he's retarded, because then he's very strong standalone without his ult, but still has his ult.
For Kat to be less binary as I mentioned before, her other skills have to be strong enough that she's not reliant on her ult to do her damage. But then that means her ult has to be weakened to compensate. How do they want her other skills to work? There're so many options it just depends on where they want to go with her :x
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United States47024 Posts
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:
[*]Taric Ult Aura removed. Replaced with long CD game-changer. Like a point and click shield, or a spell that has 700 range and gives all allies in it a bug shield+armour+mres for 2 seconds. Or something. Would that make Taric players happier? (I know I would be.)
I would like it if it was a spell that DID something, not just a shield/numbers adjustment for teammates--we have too many of those. Something on the level of Janna ulti.
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:
[*]Bruisers top lane having a re-inspection, especially if they're snowball-y like Udyr, Singed, Morde, Cho, Jax. How would you deal with it? Nerfing early game base values?
Meh. IMO there's a lot of stuff that actually beats a lot of these top lane bruisers that just ends up not going top lane because too many people are used to sending them mid-bot. I don't think its definitive that we have a problem.
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:
[*]The effectiveness of Wriggles is too damn high. (Like the rent.)
What's considered too effective about it?
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:
[*]Karma needs tweaking to become a good contender. Would AP Carry or support be better?
Would like another support, but IMO her kit is too AP carry oriented right now that unless she got a total remake, AP carry seems more reasonable.
On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:
[*]Hyrid builds/champions being tuned up. Sion feels sad you only ever use to of his skills.
To be fair, his E and R wouldn't be "used" even if you got points in them--one's a toggle you pretty much always want on, and the other is a long-CD steroid.
On September 13 2011 00:02 Southlight wrote:
Well I mean Kat's issue is pretty easy to pinpoint, the question is simply up to designers on how they want to fix her. Every hero that uses a channel-based ult to output most of their teamfight effect is binary. That's why people didn't like Fiddle - his ult was all he had for a while, and so he was very binary. Then they buff his other shit, but don't nerf his ult, so he's retarded, because then he's very strong standalone without his ult, but still has his ult.
For Kat to be less binary as I mentioned before, her other skills have to be strong enough that she's not reliant on her ult to do her damage. But then that means her ult has to be weakened to compensate. How do they want her other skills to work? There're so many options it just depends on where they want to go with her :x
TBH some of it has to do with her passive as well--it's way stronger when your team's ahead, and way weaker when your team is behind. If you're ahead, your team has an easier time getting kills, and you chain Shunpo/BB and get to ult 2-3 times a fight. If your team is behind, your team has a harder time getting kills, and you blow your CDs, and then if someone's not dead yet, you probably don't have a chance to wait for your CDs before you're dead.
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I was wondering yesterday evening what happens when:
-Someone enters a ranked game, he has bought no champion, so he only has access to the free week champs.
-He picks last
-All the free week champs are picked/ban before he comes to pick.
Does the guy get a random champ that he doesnt own?
I know it's a stupid scenario and it probably never happens but it's tormenting me :<
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United States13274 Posts
On September 13 2011 00:07 BobMcJohnson wrote:
I was wondering yesterday evening what happens when:
-Someone enters a ranked game, he has bought no champion, so he only has access to the free week champs.
-He picks last
-All the free week champs are picked/ban before he comes to pick.
Does the guy get a random champ that he doesnt own?
I know it's a stupid scenario and it probably never happens but it's tormenting me :<
that's why you can't enter ranked unless you have 14 champs currently available to play.
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United States47024 Posts
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On September 13 2011 00:08 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2011 00:07 BobMcJohnson wrote:
I was wondering yesterday evening what happens when:
-Someone enters a ranked game, he has bought no champion, so he only has access to the free week champs.
-He picks last
-All the free week champs are picked/ban before he comes to pick.
Does the guy get a random champ that he doesnt own?
I know it's a stupid scenario and it probably never happens but it's tormenting me :< that's why you can't enter ranked unless you have 14 champs currently available to play.
Oh, didn't know this restriction. makes sense yeah.
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didn't the best kat in the game and frequent poster here, WRAWRAWRAWRA, make it a point that he relied 0% on kat's ult to do anything, and instead used kat's imba passive mixed with tactical shunpos and bouncing blades, to do most of his dirty work? i would go search for that post but i think it's in the old old OLD gen discussion thread and that's like 9001 pages so nothx
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for kat could you nerf her ult damage and then make like 50% of the damage upfront like nasus' E change?
that way you arent as reliant on full channel but it still gives you the benefit of channelling it? maybe have it so that the upfront damage doesnt have AP/AD scaling, only the channel part has it?
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On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:Riot is fine with you uploading stuff onto YouTube. Some of the Rioters who got hired used to be pretty avid YouTube uploaders too. The ToS also lets you do these things, although for legal completeness it still says that all derivative property belongs to Riot games. This is more for their own protection rather than a clause they use to hunt down people. About the upcoming patch. What would you guys think about these things happening? Legal Disclaimer: This is not what the actual patch looks like.- Taric Ult Aura removed. Replaced with long CD game-changer. Like a point and click shield, or a spell that has 700 range and gives all allies in it a bug shield+armour+mres for 2 seconds. Or something. Would that make Taric players happier? (I know I would be.)
- Bruisers top lane having a re-inspection, especially if they're snowball-y like Udyr, Singed, Morde, Cho, Jax. How would you deal with it? Nerfing early game base values?
- The effectiveness of Wriggles is too damn high. (Like the rent.)
- CassiOPeia is so OP, you can't say her name without saying OP. Fact.
- Karma needs tweaking to become a good contender. Would AP Carry or support be better?
- You all know about Shen and Vlad buffs by now I hope. So won't talk about this.
- Hyrid builds/champions being tuned up. Sion feels sad you only ever use to of his skills.
- Eve and Twitch have their stealth remake soon (tm).
- Morgana has a lot of lane sustain. What if her passive was 5% less?
- Kat is too binary. Either she kills everything or dies. How would you make her still a fun snowball but not to binary in nature?
My thoughts:
- Taric's already just a stunbot in the late game that occasionally provides a heal... It's just the nature of how support is played with taking zero farm - you have one or two keeper spells (the CC ones) and the rest won't be effective since you have no items.
- I don't think Singed is that snowball-y, he just always pushes and never dies... I don't think he needs too much of a change early, since he pretty much dies in any lane until he gets a catalyst. I might change the percentage slows on his W to make his late game less effective. Morde's kit is just retarded for always push never die, and making his opponent lose cs.... Cho's passive is really broken for lane sustain, especially with catalyst. Jax is just a really strange hero, who I think has the potential to mess opponents up in any lanes - I think nerfing his empower would help a lot.
I think that Catalyst needs to be changed, like nerfed to the ground. The item's ridiculously broken on pretty much everyone, cause of the HP/MP and healing passive.
- Wriggles real strong item, but I don't know how you could change it without changing the effectiveness of pretty much every physical damage jungler. If I could suggest something, I would change the armor value or ward timing cooldown.
- Cass never jumps out at me as real op, I just don't like her kit at all for teamfighting other than her ulti.
- Karma is already incredibly strong, people just don't play her. If you buff her ratios, her cooldowns, or her W, she'll become immediate solo mid fotm.
- Stealth remake sounds good.
- I agree with changing morgana's passive, you can still stay in pretty much any lane even if you're getting harassed pretty hard.
- It's because of her ulti - by definition for it to reach maximum effectiveness you have to be in the middle of everyone on the enemy team. If you've farmed up or gotten a bunch of kills then you always kill never die, if you get cc'd or are way behind, you always die never kill. Other than changing her kit, I don't know how you'll be able to fix her binary kill curve.
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That, or you could give Kat a free blink on her ult. That way she wouldn't get lolflashed every time.
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On September 12 2011 23:33 MoonBear wrote:Riot is fine with you uploading stuff onto YouTube. Some of the Rioters who got hired used to be pretty avid YouTube uploaders too. The ToS also lets you do these things, although for legal completeness it still says that all derivative property belongs to Riot games. This is more for their own protection rather than a clause they use to hunt down people. About the upcoming patch. What would you guys think about these things happening? Legal Disclaimer: This is not what the actual patch looks like.- Taric Ult Aura removed. Replaced with long CD game-changer. Like a point and click shield, or a spell that has 700 range and gives all allies in it a bug shield+armour+mres for 2 seconds. Or something. Would that make Taric players happier? (I know I would be.)
- Bruisers top lane having a re-inspection, especially if they're snowball-y like Udyr, Singed, Morde, Cho, Jax. How would you deal with it? Nerfing early game base values?
- The effectiveness of Wriggles is too damn high. (Like the rent.)
- CassiOPeia is so OP, you can't say her name without saying OP. Fact.
- Karma needs tweaking to become a good contender. Would AP Carry or support be better?
- You all know about Shen and Vlad buffs by now I hope. So won't talk about this.
- Hyrid builds/champions being tuned up. Sion feels sad you only ever use to of his skills.
- Eve and Twitch have their stealth remake soon (tm).
- Morgana has a lot of lane sustain. What if her passive was 5% less?
- Kat is too binary. Either she kills everything or dies. How would you make her still a fun snowball but not to binary in nature?
- Taric Ult: I don't know if I'd be happier. The aura itself was a game changer in any team comp with more than one AD champion. I liked it.
- Bruisers: The problem with most snowbally bruisers is that once they get a specific item (Wriggle's, Catalyst, Revolver) you lose the lane, then they snowball.
- Karma: Keep her a support. Morgana style isn't bad.
- Hybrids: Make a useful hybrid item beyond Gunblade. Nashor's is still a noob trap.
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On September 13 2011 00:16 gtrsrs wrote:
didn't the best kat in the game and frequent poster here, WRAWRAWRAWRA, make it a point that he relied 0% on kat's ult to do anything, and instead used kat's imba passive mixed with tactical shunpos and bouncing blades, to do most of his dirty work? i would go search for that post but i think it's in the old old OLD gen discussion thread and that's like 9001 pages so nothx
Except her laning sucks now (I believe redtooth or someone chimed in last week saying this) compared to what it needs to be, and Q/E are no longer as effective relative to the power levels of other heroes as they used to be.
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On September 13 2011 00:19 BouBou.865 wrote:
That, or you could give Kat a free blink on her ult. That way she wouldn't get lolflashed every time.
or make it silence people. /trollface
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EPT
