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[Patch 1.0.0.123: Skarner] General Discussion - Page 107
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
nah it's npnp i have enough IP for three 6300 champs so even if talon is full price i should be able to grab him | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 24 2011 03:38 Southlight wrote: Veigar Soraka is fairly common, at least before this upcoming patch. Do you not remember my anguished wails of how Veigar(!) Soraka stomps a lot of lanes? #1 blatant overpowered healer kthx. He still sucks as a hero though. I don't see how, his teamfighting ability is considerable, it's always been his laning that made him garbage | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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LancerStarcraft
United States235 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:07 Juicyfruit wrote: Veigar is a beast in lane if he can solve his mana issues. I just think that he would be better off maxing dark matter early on so that he`s not a dead weight until his Q farm kicks in. The base damage on that thing is VERY high and it`s got great range and it`s a small AoE. Doesn't everyone max dark matter first? If you can't last hit with level 1 of Q you're doing it wrong. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:29 LancerStarcraft wrote: Doesn't everyone max dark matter first? If you can't last hit with level 1 of Q you're doing it wrong. Veigar is one of the hardest champions to skill properly imo because he desperately needs all three skills at max level to be effective. Q maxed = lowers the cooldown and gives him somewhat of a sustained DPS potential, but you also want E for the large-burst and creep clearing whenever it`s needed, and of course the stun scales really well too. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:29 LancerStarcraft wrote: Doesn't everyone max dark matter first? If you can't last hit with level 1 of Q you're doing it wrong. Reasons for maxing Q: 1) Mana cost doesn't scale, unlike W and E 2) Q cooldown scales, W doesn't 3) Reliable single-target harass--your ability to trade in lane is very unreliable when you have to land W or come out behind every time your opponent trades harass with you, as opposed to just being able to Q them back to match their damage. 4) Similar to 3, you won't ever land W without E against a competent laner, meaning that EVEN IF you land W, you still will probably come out behind simply because of how mana intensive W+E is. You're much more likely to have favorable trades if you trade with just Q. Simply put, W max makes you even worse off in lane, simply because it becomes impossible for you to trade effectively with anyone, and they just force you off the creeps. At best, you'll use W to instaclear the ranged creeps and get zoned of the melee creeps, and getting 3/6 minions from every wave is not exactly good farm. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Why is Veigar`s CC on E but his AoE skill on W, and then with Nasus it`s the opposite. Why is soraka and sona`s heal on W, but taric`s on Q, and nidalee`s on E? WHY RIOT WHY?? On August 24 2011 04:40 BlackPaladin wrote: If most of your damage is from a delayed AoE skillshot on a 10 second cooldown that costs a lot of mana, instead of a single target nuke every few seconds that is cheaper mana-wise as well, you're doing it wrong. You know, people max W before E on brand.... | ||
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[Agony]x90
United States853 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:38 TheYango wrote: Reasons for maxing Q: 1) Mana cost doesn't scale, unlike W and E 2) Q cooldown scales, W doesn't 3) Reliable single-target harass--your ability to trade in lane is very unreliable when you have to land W or come out behind every time your opponent trades harass with you, as opposed to just being able to Q them back to match their damage. 4) Similar to 3, you won't ever land W without E against a competent laner, meaning that EVEN IF you land W, you still will probably come out behind simply because of how mana intensive W+E is. You're much likely to have favorable trades if you trade with just Q. Not to mention, early game you're trying to farm more AP anyways. I find that late game, even though it's easier to last hit with Q then, you'll be farming more so with dark matter, meaning you're mission out on lots of potential AP. Also, if the other person is being very evasion in lane, you can catch them with E just to Q. This burns a lot of mana, but this is a great set up for using your ult. EDIT: meant E not W. Which ever is the cage. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:40 Juicyfruit wrote: T_T gg Why is Veigar`s CC on E but his AoE skill on W, and then with Nasus it`s the opposite. Why is soraka and sona`s heal on W, but taric`s on Q, and nidalee`s on E? WHY RIOT WHY?? You know, people max W before E on brand.... "costs a lot of mana" Brand has comparatively good mana costs on his spells compared to Veigar, so missing Ws hurts you much less on Brand than it does on Veigar. Also, I'm pretty sure Brand's W does not have a 1.2 second delay. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
Max Q then max E, one in W at 4. Only way to go noobs. (Actually stopping at 2-3 ranks of E is ok in some situations, but 2.5s AoE stun OP) | ||
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:02 gtrsrs wrote: nah it's npnp i have enough IP for three 6300 champs so even if talon is full price i should be able to grab him In before Talon is 9450. You know that it will happen eventually... | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
On August 24 2011 04:56 BlackPaladin wrote: Brand's w's delay isn't as long, the radius is much larger, and it costs less mana. Yes yes, brand's W is much better blah blah... but my point is that it's still not 100% guaranteed to hit and there are other reasons that brands do well by maxing W first, one being that it gives them and basically any AP carries some very much needed lane control by being able to push out before making a play elsewhere on the map. Suppose that you can solve the mana issue (either via sorakabot or blue buff), you really don't want to end up level 9 in a lane with only baleful strike while the enemy team clears his wave in 2 spells and then goes off and do whatever while you're pinned down. I think being able to insta-gib ranged minions with 1 spell is a minimum requirement if you wish to be able to leave your lane at all without losing too much everytime you want to roam, and veigar certainly would benefit from being able to make his insta-gibbing power to good use elsewhere. Plus, a stun + dark matter combo is virtually impossible to retaliate against or avoid, but again, costs a lot of mana which is why at least on paper, veigar is only strong if he can access cheap mana throughout early game. Also, here's a delayed happy birthday nob | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On August 24 2011 05:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: I play nothing but Veigar. Max Q then max E, one in W at 4. Only way to go noobs. (Actually stopping at 2-3 ranks of E is ok in some situations, but 2.5s AoE stun OP) yeah, this is pretty much the only way i've ever conceivably been able to skill veigar, w just sucks too much in too many aspects and q and e are just too good to not lvl up first edit: not to mention you need like lvl 3-ish stun be4 u can reliably hit w on any champ | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i53.tinypic.com/35mh3t5.jpg) ehehehhehehe uhuhuhuuh huehuehuehueheuheuehue | ||
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