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United States47024 Posts
On August 24 2011 05:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
I don't believe many champions have any method at all of retaliating against the range of the combo. None of them have a cc capable of outranging the stun and as the veigar, you're also increasing your odds by setting up the combo as they're aiming to farm.
You have to approach to 900 range to W (and you have to lead with W), so even if you can use the stun defensively, you can never combo them without putting yourself at risk.
Common AP matchups I can think of:
Orianna - Has superior range, not much discussion.
Brand - Just combos you back for comparable/superior damage.
Zilean - E movespeed lets him move far enough from W during the delay between W and E that you shouldn't be able to hit him.
Malzahar - Q has the same range as your W, if he Qs, he disrupts your ability to stun, dodges W, and can potentially combo you
Gragas - Es toward you and Qs you, possibly R->E->Q->Ignite kill you if the positioning is right.
Anivia - Throws a Q at you--you have to choose between juking Q (and thus letting her dodge your W), or eating HER QE combo after your stun, which does more damage.
Leblanc - Ws to you when you cast W, then combos you.
Morgana - Black Shield the stun. lol
Kassadin - After 6, Rs to you and combos every time you try to W->E.
Ryze - No AP and rushes BVeil. You're not going to kill him or put him in danger.
Vlad - Pool lasts longer than the W delay time, and because you have no harass between E stuns, he just heals up in between.
Karthus - W has 1000 range, Q has 875 with 200 AoE. You can try to force a stun, but you'll eat WQQQ on the way in and on the way out.
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Anyone watching Chaox stream? This guy is such a beast <3
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Baa?21246 Posts
Honestly I think Veigar's a very strong champioon who could use a couple of very minor buffs. When you play Veigar, try to either get a favorable/not as raped lane matchup, and just have a jungler who can put out strong early pressure. If you can make it to level 6-7ish in decent shape, you can start farming up very hard and by level 11/DFG, can instagib anyone.
Jungler doesn't even need to make them blow flash or get kills or anything, just need to give you space to farm. (But Veigar is a great lane to gank if he has mana and 6. Massive damage.)
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You know who else has massive damage at level 6? Basically every other AP carry. They also tend to have not as sucky levels 1-5.
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I think veigar might make a bit of a comeback if he can get in bot lane with a good support like taric/alistar. But the problem is that everyone puts him in mid lane where he can get denied/harassed/outfarmed, and eventually killed.
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On August 24 2011 06:11 BlackPaladin wrote:
You can farm nearly 100 AP in lane just from q lasthits. You've played with me plenty of times as veigar, Tap. You should know that. (but do you even play veigar?? never saw you play him before) It's always r>q>e>w.
Doesn't matter if you can or can't hit w, in the end q is better overall with the decreased cooldown and lower mana cost. E->W combo is like half your mana (over 200 mana used for that combo alone, that's without throwing in a q). You do not use that combo often in lane at all, and should rely more on your q. With your passive you can q nearly everytime it's off cooldown with basic mana regen if your mana is low.
Veigar's job earlygame is basically to farm, because him getting farmed = can instagib anyone midgame. Maxing q can hit squishies for 1/3 - 1/4 of their life per cast anyway, and the damage is only slightly less than w's damage but it's mana cost is much lower than w's. In lane, basically, you're outputting more damage per mana with max q and you don't need to rely on your stun to do so. It gives you a lot more laning power than maxing w. You clear creeps slightly slower with q than w but not 20 seconds slower.....and you can output more sustained damage in lane.
I think this passive farmfest style of play is precisely why veigar can't hold a candle to other AP carries that actually have map presence before 20 minutes 
On August 24 2011 06:15 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 05:51 Juicyfruit wrote:
I don't believe many champions have any method at all of retaliating against the range of the combo. None of them have a cc capable of outranging the stun and as the veigar, you're also increasing your odds by setting up the combo as they're aiming to farm.
You have to approach to 900 range to W (and you have to lead with W), so even if you can use the stun defensively, you can never combo them without putting yourself at risk. Common AP matchups I can think of: Orianna - Has superior range, not much discussion. Brand - Just combos you back for comparable/superior damage. Zilean - E movespeed lets him move far enough from W during the delay between W and E that you shouldn't be able to hit him. Malzahar - Q has the same range as your W, if he Qs, he disrupts your ability to stun, dodges W, and can potentially combo you Gragas - Es toward you and Qs you, possibly R->E->Q->Ignite kill you if the positioning is right. Anivia - Throws a Q at you--you have to choose between juking Q (and thus letting her dodge your W), or eating HER QE combo after your stun, which does more damage. Leblanc - Ws to you when you cast W, then combos you. Morgana - Black Shield the stun. lol Kassadin - After 6, Rs to you and combos every time you try to W->E. Ryze - No AP and rushes BVeil. You're not going to kill him or put him in danger. Vlad - Pool lasts longer than the W delay time, and because you have no harass between E stuns, he just heals up in between. Karthus - W has 1000 range, Q has 875 with 200 AoE. You can try to force a stun, but you'll eat WQQQ on the way in and on the way out.
Well the majority of the methods listed about requires the player to have about a half a second reaction to veigar`s combo AND somehow cast a retaliatory spell that cc`s veigar WHILE A GIANT METEOR IS FALLING ON THEM (like... how is malzahar going to Q you AND dodge the E at the same time). But...
You`re going to get your ass kicked if you max Q against ALL of these things by the exact same reasoning. In fact, you can`t even farm with Q because you`re going to get your ass kicked.
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On August 24 2011 06:21 Mogwai wrote:
You know who else has massive damage at level 6? Basically every other AP carry. They also tend to have not as sucky levels 1-5.
True but he's one of the rare AP carries who can stun someone for a jungler from very very far without wasting any summoners.
Problem is that other AP carries don`t require jungler assistance in the first place because they don`t suck!
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On August 24 2011 05:35 gtrsrs wrote:thanks guys! i'm holding out on RIOT having a special skin/reward/achievement for having wins with every champion in season 1. i mean i'm 95% sure they won't, but one can hope!
The reward will be achievement, huehue!
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Baa?21246 Posts
Veigar is also cool in that he has potential, at the beginning of a teamfight, to instagib both the enemy AD and AP carries. Boom all your damage gone :3
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WTF i wasnt watching since the beginning, chaox is lvl 3 ~7 mins into the game and no tower, how did it happen o.o
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I'm really starting to enjoy the effect the season rewards are having on my normal games. So many troll games with players who just hit gold and quit ranked for the season; had one this afternoon where three of them on the enemy team went Shaco/Eve/Twitch.
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As far as Veigar is concerned, despite how much I adore him, it seems to me that he just doesn't have the flexibility to be properly viable in organised play, and is far too easy to shut down. Sure, he's perfectly good at pubstomping, but unless you can get super-babysat early game against another AP carry that knows what they're doing, then you're going to be lacking what you need to go into mid game and be able to melt face (i.e. DFG, sorcs boots and most of a rabadons). Also, since he needs far more AP point for point than most other carries to have an impact on the game, then if you build too much survivability on him (beyond, say, a haunting guise) he feels really weak e.g. going rod of ages, as you would on Annie, just delays your power items by too much. However, if you are too squishy, you can so easily get zoned in a teamfight by DPS-y tanks which he'll have to use his abilities on to survive negating his purpose. That said, he is particularly excellent at instagibbing anyone who is severely out of position, but so are most other mage-type champs. Just my 1.2 pence (as of current exchange rates between USD and GBP).
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
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On August 24 2011 06:21 HyperionDreamer wrote:
I think veigar might make a bit of a comeback if he can get in bot lane with a good support like taric/alistar. But the problem is that everyone puts him in mid lane where he can get denied/harassed/outfarmed, and eventually killed.
This is now my feeling as well and the whole reason I brought veigar up. He is really really strong in a support lane and kinda garbage as a solo lane and I think he'd be a lot more popular/considered a lot stronger if people were putting him bot. I can't state enough how much better he seemed in a duo lane.
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Anyone know how to get rid of the bug where you're stuck in a non-existent game and thus can't join q?
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On August 24 2011 08:01 Ryuu314 wrote:
Anyone know how to get rid of the bug where you're stuck in a non-existent game and thus can't join q?
Hey there. It seems that you're stuck in a ghost game. This is when the game server you're on hasn't told your client the game has finished so your client still thinks you're stuck in a non-existent game. Often this is the case because the game server is backed up and has not purged all unnecessary data yet.
Generally, this should clear itself within an hour or two. Restarting your computer and logging back on can help as the client will request the server for a new update on the game.
You might not have any exp/IP values update correctly right now. Rest assured you will get them. They just haven't been processed by the server yet.
If the issue persists or occurs frequently it may indicate a problem with your connection. In that case, please post in the LoL Subforum Tech Thread and I'll see what I can do.
This problem with the servers is known to Riot and is being worked on. On behalf of Riot Tech, I apologise for any inconvenience caused.
If you have any further queries feel free to ask them. Also please inform any other TL-ers who may be experiencing this issue.
Happy playing on the Fields of Justice Summoner! 
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Newb, should I be building Twisted Fate AD or AP? I figure AD is more sustained damage, but AP is more burst. Am I wrong, or is one definitively better than the other?
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AD would be acceptable if he didnt have an abysmal range
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Either is fine, but AP is better. TF's strength is split pushing/ganking and AP works out better for both of those.
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What are people's thoughts on the Le Blanc/Annie mid lane match up? I feel like I can do nothing against Le Blanc, even farming has its risks. Advice?
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On August 24 2011 08:43 Requizen wrote:
Newb, should I be building Twisted Fate AD or AP? I figure AD is more sustained damage, but AP is more burst. Am I wrong, or is one definitively better than the other?
AD has no range. ;(
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EPT
