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[WuKong Patch] General Discussion - Page 58

Forum Index > LoL General
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zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 05 2011 07:28 GMT
#1141
on stream i see a lot of people upgrading philo to reverie first before selling it, does that net you more gold?
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
August 05 2011 08:00 GMT
#1142
wait what?
why would anyone sell reverie?
it's one of the best items in the game by far
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
August 05 2011 08:04 GMT
#1143
On August 05 2011 16:28 zulu_nation8 wrote:
on stream i see a lot of people upgrading philo to reverie first before selling it, does that net you more gold?


Yes. GP5 items sell for a % less than non GP5 items. And you usually do it with Eliesa's Charm, since that's cheaper than Reverie.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
August 05 2011 08:09 GMT
#1144
Philo on Soraka? What for? 800 gold and the only stat you can make use of is the 5 gold/10. And HoG still is crap.
Just get your AP going asap.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 09:34:05
August 05 2011 08:15 GMT
#1145
I agree with no Philo. Philo on a champ that has a self-heal and self-infuse is just dumb. Locodoco #1 support player imo.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
August 05 2011 08:20 GMT
#1146
On the topic of double ap vs ad+support, playing double ad carry vs ad+support is fun aswell, not sure how it would look in the bigger picture tho.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 05 2011 08:45 GMT
#1147
I've tried a support Urgot + Corki bot lane before and it worked pretty well.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
August 05 2011 08:55 GMT
#1148
Stop saying that "HoG/Philo" are always bad for all scenarios when it comes to certain supports.

HoG is strong vs burst lanes on supports or you risk getting buttraped.
e.g. Soraka/Cait vs MF/Taric (just pulling that lanecombo out of my ass)

Philo is strong if you're in a lane that's simply too hard to deal with without extra regen. Ashe/Soraka vs any Cait/MF/Trist + Taric/Sona would be an example. (Not that Ashe/Soraka is a great lane to begin with)

If you need neither you get the lucky pick and work from there. Stacking the others is still fine for the extra gold/5 if you get them early enough. (HoG > Philo for those scenarios imo)

I would take gold quints over AP on any support ('cept Taric maybe) any day of the week btw.


For starting items 3 wards+faerie charm+pots is completely legit for stuff like Soraka/Sona too. Actually I'd take that over boots on Soraka pretty much always. Boots not that great on her (compared to e.g. Taric or Janna)
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
August 05 2011 09:00 GMT
#1149
On August 05 2011 17:45 zulu_nation8 wrote:
I've tried a support Urgot + Corki bot lane before and it worked pretty well.

Urgot taric real beastlane too:p
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 10:21:47
August 05 2011 10:19 GMT
#1150
On August 05 2011 17:55 r.Evo wrote:
Stop saying that "HoG/Philo" are always bad for all scenarios when it comes to certain supports.

HoG is strong vs burst lanes on supports or you risk getting buttraped.
e.g. Soraka/Cait vs MF/Taric (just pulling that lanecombo out of my ass)

Philo is strong if you're in a lane that's simply too hard to deal with without extra regen. Ashe/Soraka vs any Cait/MF/Trist + Taric/Sona would be an example. (Not that Ashe/Soraka is a great lane to begin with)

If you need neither you get the lucky pick and work from there. Stacking the others is still fine for the extra gold/5 if you get them early enough. (HoG > Philo for those scenarios imo)

I would take gold quints over AP on any support ('cept Taric maybe) any day of the week btw.


For starting items 3 wards+faerie charm+pots is completely legit for stuff like Soraka/Sona too. Actually I'd take that over boots on Soraka pretty much always. Boots not that great on her (compared to e.g. Taric or Janna)

Kindlegem or just Ruby -> later Aegis still is superior in 99.9% of the cases.
Soraka shouldn't ever be the one who is hit by the burst in lane.
Philo is unnecessary on Soraka. You gain nothing from the regen stats unless you spam Starcall.

I obviously could tell you that there is this 1 in 1000 games situation where you actually plan to draw the game out for 60 minutes instead of abusing Soraka's strong midgame...
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
August 05 2011 10:48 GMT
#1151
On August 05 2011 19:19 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 17:55 r.Evo wrote:
Stop saying that "HoG/Philo" are always bad for all scenarios when it comes to certain supports.

HoG is strong vs burst lanes on supports or you risk getting buttraped.
e.g. Soraka/Cait vs MF/Taric (just pulling that lanecombo out of my ass)

Philo is strong if you're in a lane that's simply too hard to deal with without extra regen. Ashe/Soraka vs any Cait/MF/Trist + Taric/Sona would be an example. (Not that Ashe/Soraka is a great lane to begin with)

If you need neither you get the lucky pick and work from there. Stacking the others is still fine for the extra gold/5 if you get them early enough. (HoG > Philo for those scenarios imo)

I would take gold quints over AP on any support ('cept Taric maybe) any day of the week btw.


For starting items 3 wards+faerie charm+pots is completely legit for stuff like Soraka/Sona too. Actually I'd take that over boots on Soraka pretty much always. Boots not that great on her (compared to e.g. Taric or Janna)

Kindlegem or just Ruby -> later Aegis still is superior in 99.9% of the cases.
Soraka shouldn't ever be the one who is hit by the burst in lane.
Philo is unnecessary on Soraka. You gain nothing from the regen stats unless you spam Starcall.

I obviously could tell you that there is this 1 in 1000 games situation where you actually plan to draw the game out for 60 minutes instead of abusing Soraka's strong midgame...


Seriously, I start to hate you. A little bit.

For the next week I hereby promise to..

a) Never get HoG on supports. Ever. I will always get kindlegem if I feel I need the HP.
b) Never get Philo on Soraka.
c) Only get Kages on Soraka for gold items.

Will report back how it felt.

<3
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 10:59:42
August 05 2011 10:56 GMT
#1152
If Philo stone were that terrible on Soraka, puregoldenboy probably would have realized it by now.

It just makes zero sense that a player that plays Soraka that much at a 2200+ level would buy an item that's "always wrong" on her and not realize it's bad if it really is that bad.
Moderator
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
August 05 2011 11:00 GMT
#1153
FUCK IT

jungling morde at 1800 elo
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 05 2011 11:14 GMT
#1154
what's the math on morde's clone? How much health/ad it has, etc?
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
August 05 2011 11:31 GMT
#1155
On August 05 2011 17:15 HazMat wrote:
I agree with no Philo. Philo on a champ that has a self-heal and self-infuse is just dumb. Locodoco #1 support player imo.

obviously ur a better soraka than pgb
the build i listed is his exact build
i wish riot would give me better ping
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
August 05 2011 11:32 GMT
#1156
On August 05 2011 19:56 TheYango wrote:
If Philo stone were that terrible on Soraka, puregoldenboy probably would have realized it by now.

It just makes zero sense that a player that plays Soraka that much at a 2200+ level would buy an item that's "always wrong" on her and not realize it's bad if it really is that bad.

Have you ever seen a high elo player use Good Hands over Perseverance on any champ?
Last time I checked, Perseverance was awful. Awful enough to make gambling on 3-5 seconds faster respawn time to save a tower or rush Baron better.

If I see a high elo player do X, I will try to find out why he does it. But I will not do the same just because he does it.

Of course it's not horribe instaloss 10 minute surrender bad to get Philo or HoG. Those items still do something after all. You can buy a wide variety of items on most champs and still show roughly the same performance. Decision making has a much bigger impact.

By the way, if you would aim for Kage + Philo + Hog (2390 gold), get 3 DRings (1425 gold) instead.
250 HP vs 300 HP
25 AP vs 45 AP
8 MP5 vs 15 MP5
18 HP5 + 15 gold/10 vs 965 gold cheaper

Total: 18 HP5, 15 gold/10 vs 965 gold, 50 HP, 30 AP, 7 MP5.

It takes 10 min 43 sec to generate those 965 gold. Considering how long it takes for a 0 cs support to be able to spend 2390 gold after boots + wards... midgame is over by then. And you still haven't caught up to the extra 50 HP 30 AP.
If you'd build something from those gold/10 items then they'd become more efficient, but Soraka likes Deathcap.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Odds
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada1188 Posts
August 05 2011 11:32 GMT
#1157
On August 05 2011 20:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what's the math on morde's clone? How much health/ad it has, etc?

math on morde's clone

cait clone = pentakill
Odds.633, AM. Plat level currently. Would love more practice partners, add me, let's play!
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
August 05 2011 11:48 GMT
#1158
Good Hands vs Perseverance isn't even an open question. The former is actually a clutch mastery that sometimes might turn around games, while the latter does absolutely nothing. My mastery pages with utility actually have ghost/teleport in place of 1 point of Perseverance even if I'm not using those summoners.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
August 05 2011 12:02 GMT
#1159
On August 05 2011 20:31 locodoco wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 17:15 HazMat wrote:
I agree with no Philo. Philo on a champ that has a self-heal and self-infuse is just dumb. Locodoco #1 support player imo.

obviously ur a better soraka than pgb
the build i listed is his exact build

Well, obv PGB is a great Soraka but it's definitely not because of his build. He just knows what to do at Soraka better than anyone else. There really is almost no reason to get Philo on Soraka unless you're going for Shurelias. (which is a great item so I guess that works)

I just feel like people hugely over-value gp/10 items.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
locodoco
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1615 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-05 12:17:35
August 05 2011 12:17 GMT
#1160
On August 05 2011 21:02 HazMat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2011 20:31 locodoco wrote:
On August 05 2011 17:15 HazMat wrote:
I agree with no Philo. Philo on a champ that has a self-heal and self-infuse is just dumb. Locodoco #1 support player imo.

obviously ur a better soraka than pgb
the build i listed is his exact build

Well, obv PGB is a great Soraka but it's definitely not because of his build. He just knows what to do at Soraka better than anyone else. There really is almost no reason to get Philo on Soraka unless you're going for Shurelias. (which is a great item so I guess that works)

I just feel like people hugely over-value gp/10 items.

pgb tried doran stack,kage->dcap,tanky build(sv + aegies),gp/5 stack
he said gp/5 is the most stable build and always leads to a great late game and other items often only delay his deathcap
notice i said get 1~3 gp/5
in kage->philo->hog order
he ends up going kage and philo only most of the time but i've seen him get hog before when the mid games just drags on or we lost bot lane due to ganks or something
i honestly dont get why people comment on other people's build and say stuff like "well he plays amazing but his build blows","blah blah(some1 known for certain champion) doesnt know what he's talking about here's a better build"
the build they go works best with their play style,u might not think its streamlined,u might not think it's the best build,u might think could be a better player if they used a different build.
but more often than not,that person played that champion more than and that person probably understand the champion better than you too,and most certainly im pretty sure that person experimented with the build first before sticking to it
ur entitled to ur opinion but dissing on builds that u see other high elo players use on a champion they specialize is just plain rude
i wish riot would give me better ping
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