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Oh crap, I just lost a game because of stupid teammates. I'm lvl12 so I meet a lot of guys incapable of focusing carries and because my early game with Corki went 6/0/4 I was extremely hard focused (esp Annie and Kassdin ._.).
We did a big push mid with all the team while the other team pushed top. Despite the fact I pinged 100 times their towers, Hermeidinger still wants to defend our base 1vs5. He get killed like a fucking idiot while we got both of the nexus towers down, then they teleport back and stop us (4vs5).
Then they attack and hermeidinger can't fucking defend with his turrets and all this shit and we get killed and lose (twitch is also really useless and early game of our orianna was really agressive and fed Rammus).
Now I feel bad 'cause I could hide in their jungle and snipe thier nexus.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 03 2011 23:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
But in all seriousness I hate Zilean. He gives nothing as a mid. He doesnt benefit from mid because he has 1 spell that does damage, and thus is a TERRIBLE use of farm. He cant gank, and basically becomes a walking GA for whoever on your team does the most damage, which wont be ap because you dont have an ap solo. At least karma can nuke save someone.
Where to start with this one:
1) Zilean can't gank? Ridiculous map mobility, some of the best early-game burst in the game, and a gap closer that you can instantly rewind into a 55% slow doesn't make him a decent ganker? Guess all those times Regi's double bomb the creep wave mid, and speed off to a sidelane to get a kill while the other mid is dealing with the creeps is just people being bad.
2) Just a GA? Irelia reviving with 2500 HP and Irelia reviving with 750 HP are hugely different.
3) The rate at which Zilean drops off on damage is wildly exaggerated. Yes he does fall off lategame, but no more than many other AP carries. Compare him to, say, Gragas or Kassadin. Rewinding off CD has slightly less on-paper damage over the period of a fight than Gragas Q/E and Kassadin's Q/E/R, but his in-practice damage is going to come out comparable or even greater when you consider the positioning restrictions on Gragas' E, Kassadin's E/R, and the fact that Kassadin's Q is single-target. He drops off lategame, but he's no more "a TERRIBLE use of farm" than either of those champions.
But who knows, maybe I'm wrong about Zilean, along with the 3 best Zilean players on US, who also happen to be arguably the 3 best AP carry players on US.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On August 04 2011 03:00 gtrsrs wrote:
k phrost and i wanan start grinding ranked 5s
inept are you on? w'supchan? let's get some 5s going imo
i play 5s late at night 10 pm +
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Imma be on in about 45 minutes to an hour, I'll play some 5s.
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Don't be that guy that makes a risky baron call at like the 22 min mark. Please don't be, its gonna lose you the game more often than not.
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On August 04 2011 03:45 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2011 23:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
But in all seriousness I hate Zilean. He gives nothing as a mid. He doesnt benefit from mid because he has 1 spell that does damage, and thus is a TERRIBLE use of farm. He cant gank, and basically becomes a walking GA for whoever on your team does the most damage, which wont be ap because you dont have an ap solo. At least karma can nuke save someone. Where to start with this one: 1) Zilean can't gank? Ridiculous map mobility, some of the best early-game burst in the game, and a gap closer that you can instantly rewind into a 55% slow doesn't make him a decent ganker? Guess all those times Regi's double bomb the creep wave mid, and speed off to a sidelane to get a kill while the other mid is dealing with the creeps is just people being bad. 2) Just a GA? Irelia reviving with 2500 HP and Irelia reviving with 750 HP are hugely different. 3) The rate at which Zilean drops off on damage is wildly exaggerated. Yes he does fall off lategame, but no more than many other AP carries. Compare him to, say, Gragas or Kassadin. Rewinding off CD has slightly less on-paper damage over the period of a fight than Gragas Q/E and Kassadin's Q/E/R, but his in-practice damage is going to come out comparable or even greater when you consider the positioning restrictions on Gragas' E, Kassadin's E/R, and the fact that Kassadin's Q is single-target. He drops off lategame, but he's no more "a TERRIBLE use of farm" than either of those champions. But who knows, maybe I'm wrong about Zilean, along with the 3 best Zilean players on US, who also happen to be arguably the 3 best AP carry players on US.
1) That situation is indeed capable of happening. Of course, the entire combo takes so much mana that you either have to have blue or are fucked for the next 5 minutes. He can gank. The question is how much it offsets the rest of his game.
2) Yes, just a GA. A decent team ignores the target or just kills them, then turns and kills the rest of the team before turning back to finish the person as they revive. Or they just catch someone and force him to ult before the fight even starts.
3) He can doublebomb once every 10 seconds. Thats it. Thats all the damage he has to offer. Not to mention you compared him to 2 non ap carries. Compare his damage to orianna. Or annie. Or vlad. Or any other TRUE ap caster you would put mid.
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Bomb is an AoE spell effectively the first one instant at 0.9 ratio,o a single target nuke with 1.8 AP ratio. Pretty damn good considering his rewind spam and speed/slow down + ultimate. You really underestimate his damage. He nukes harder than karma in single target.
Like one of the best level 5 base damages for a non ultimate and one of the highest ratios to boot. You guys underrate him. His pure damage isn't the best best combined with his speed/revive he's amazing combined with a good bruiser.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 04 2011 04:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
1) That situation is indeed capable of happening. Of course, the entire combo takes so much mana that you either have to have blue or are fucked for the next 5 minutes. He can gank. The question is how much it offsets the rest of his game.
Giving 2nd blue buff isn't uncommon when Zilean get's played, and even without one, Catalyst mana covers a good chunk of what you spend.
On August 04 2011 04:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
2) Yes, just a GA. A decent team ignores the target or just kills them, then turns and kills the rest of the team before turning back to finish the person as they revive. Or they just catch someone and force him to ult before the fight even starts.
Last I checked, ignoring Olaf for 5 seconds when he's on 20% HP and has 2 free recurve bows boosting his damage tends to result in your carries getting killed. And you make killing Olaf or Irelia from full all over again sound easier than it is.
On August 04 2011 04:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
3) He can doublebomb once every 10 seconds. Thats it. Thats all the damage he has to offer. Not to mention you compared him to 2 non ap carries. Compare his damage to orianna. Or annie. Or vlad. Or any other TRUE ap caster you would put mid.
Yup, cuz people totally don't run Gragas or Kassadin as their AP solos. Oh, wait, yes they do.
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in arranged its easy to get an early blue esp if you have a pick (zil anivia) that you are planning around that needs it
he is so mobile that it hardly offsets his game if he has a blue
if you ignore a high priority target for 7 seconds you will likely lose the fight if its somewhat even. good zilean ults win games, the kind of scenarios you talk about sound like the team against zilean already has a huge advantage
that isn't factoring cdr (especially considering that zilean scales multiplicatively off of cdr due to his w) and his utility with his speed up and ult, which allows for plays like speeding in an olaf or a irelia and letting them start on the opponent team's carry and forcing cc etc off while the rest of the team pokes and gets into a good position
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For anybody who's bored, Chauster/Loci having an interesting metagame discussion while waiting for their queue to pop on Chau's stream.
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On August 04 2011 03:42 Ecael wrote:
Those trolls know nothing of Caller's spirit. Caller's goal is to build troll items and still carry through good play. Trolling for the sake of losing is nothing in comparison to Lord Bravery's deeds.
Moral of the story: Be mannered to everyone, otherwise the people you see every other game will troll you.
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Yeahhh back to silver.
Nidal33t heals op
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On August 04 2011 04:18 arnath wrote:
For anybody who's bored, Chauster/Loci having an interesting metagame discussion while waiting for their queue to pop on Chau's stream.
summary of this discussion? im at work so i cant have my speakers blasting this
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On August 03 2011 19:28 LoCicero wrote:
I've been getting epic fucking teams. Seven game loss streak, lol.
Just watched you lose another game on Dan Dinh's stream 
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
So I hear Season 1 will end late August. Season 2 will probably start after it.
On June 25 2011 11:08 MoonBear wrote:Future Update Stuff- [...]
- Season 2 maybe Aug/Sep/Oct. If I'm right, I'll sound like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll pretend I never wrote this.
'Sup?
Also, I am now a Wrenchperson on NA and EU. Feel free to say hi to me in LiquidParty on NA/EU if I'm online if you need any help and I'm online.
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wenchperson sounds better
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On August 04 2011 05:24 MoonBear wrote:So I hear Season 1 will end late August. Season 2 will probably start after it. Show nested quote +On June 25 2011 11:08 MoonBear wrote:Future Update Stuff- [...]
- Season 2 maybe Aug/Sep/Oct. If I'm right, I'll sound like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll pretend I never wrote this.
'Sup? Also, I am now a Wrenchperson on NA and EU. Feel free to say hi to me in LiquidParty on NA/EU if I'm online if you need any help and I'm online.
i mean
no offense cause you're a great guy
but you gave a 3 month window l0l
that'd be like if i said "New champs: coming sometime in august-december. don't quote me on this but i've got a hunch"
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On August 04 2011 02:00 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2011 01:54 Slayer91 wrote:
It just sucks all the times I've played solo mid karma the rest of my team fed despite my ganks and me doing well. I've beaten annies when people just assume she'll rape me. It's pretty hilarious but people still go nuts when I pick her.
Problem is she lacks CC which is a huge detriment for any champion.
If riot still honestly views her as a support champion that have to be brain dead retarded because she has no CC and a basically useless heal, and no ultimate which are the 3 main categories people pick supports for. yep, I've yet to lose to an annie with Karma, even with heavy gank support I still roll her in CS and have lane dominance the whole time.
cept for when you're level 3 and get ganked by the jungler because you're zoning too hard
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I still have lane dominance when I get back most of the time, lol. but yea, I def zone too hard with karma.
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On August 04 2011 05:50 Mogwai wrote:
I still have lane dominance when I get back most of the time, lol. but yea, I def zone too hard with karma.
Oh I know you do when you get back. I just had to comment because you mentioned making that mistake and dying to a jungler level 3, so later that day when I was watching your stream I warned you about it about a minute before you did the exact same thing and died:p
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EPT
