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On February 04 2011 07:02 Mogwai wrote:
right and all tanks are beefy. that's their unifying characteristic. to imply anything more is to lose sight of why we call them tanks and exposes a severe lack of vocabulary. you want an initiator, ask for an initiator.
This is idea is why I've actually found the thread useful. From reading the opinions here it's clear that people have different views on tanks.
From now on I'm going to try to be more aware of the varying definitions and ask for what I think the team specifically needs "We need someone to initiate", "We need someone to be able to protect X" etc.
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On February 04 2011 11:15 Logrus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 11:03 Mogwai wrote:
best initiations in the game, in order:
1. Ashe
2. Malphite
3. Amumu
4. Rammus
5. Blitzcrank
honorable mentions to all the pussies who need flash to make it happen
Alistar, Annie, Galio ya ok but... so like, why? I mean, I don't think you're wrong, but I'm curious for example why mummy is #3 but i don't see Janna or Shen on the list. And Ashe arrow is amazing but that's all she has, so if u consider bandage toss in a vaccuum without his ult is it still #3 over rocket grab #5? And when is it a good idea to build Annie pure tank and be my teams stun initiator instead of say picking Sion and building tanky? These are the type of questions that I think need further discussion and why this is a good thread!
ashe is #1 because it's idiot-proof. it's on short CD, is completely safe (if you fuck up, it's not game over), and frenquently just accidentally wins the game by snagging a carry kill out of thin air.
Malphite is #2 over the rest because it's not impeded by having a clear line shot (which is to say that he can ult through a tank blocking your shot on a carry). He also just immediately blows a giant load on everyone and dumps on their ability to stand and fight with ground slam.
Amumu has a distance closing spell (toss) + the largest AoE immobilize in the game, nuff said.
Rammus is under amumu because while he outputs more damage and single target disables for longer... he doesn't root everyone meaning that while you can disable the carry, you don't stop their tanks from stopping your damage dealers from raping the taunted carry.
Blitz hooks are tricky, but a good blitz hook will instantly win the game, like a good ashe arrow, and they tend to be safe (though sometimes you snag a singed/alistar and get raped for it). They're just way harder to hit. He also gets bonus points for having an on command knockup and AoE silence to follow up or counter initiate vs. opposing teams.
And no, my rating there is talking about the full package for every character, without his ult, mummy would be like last place among characters with ranged disables, lol. I'm also not saying they're all tanks, I'm just saying they're all extremely capable initiators. Ashe and Annie should never be build tank, but they're still incredible initiators and eliminate the need for you to have a tank that can initiate really well.
Janna sucks at initiation (wtf, flash ult or something? idk, tornado and her slow are both lackluster initiators and all her skills are best used defensively). Shen is an OK initiator but again, is better used defensively. He'll do in a pinch, but he's a much better peeler/chaser than hard initiator.
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i dun think it's as good as the others simply because of range. it's also more frequently best used as a counter initiation.
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Urgot ult obv! Although you kinda want to be tanky and have Flash up if you do that...
Oh and lvl 16.
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What about Taric/Sion stuns and Karthus wall? I know their range is hardly ideal, but I've seen them start teamfights often enough.
Well, and then there's Grand Skyfall, but I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to Panth compared to a lot of people here.
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Initiating with panth is actually a bad idea since you'll get instagibbed 90% of the time.
Best time to ult in with panth is after the initiation has started.
Example: morgana went in there and ult'ed, panth ults in while everyone is slowed & trying to run away. Panth gets pentakill
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On February 04 2011 22:20 Abenson wrote:
Initiating with panth is actually a bad idea since you'll get instagibbed 90% of the time.
Best time to ult in with panth is after the initiation has started.
Example: morgana went in there and ult'ed, panth ults in while everyone is slowed & trying to run away. Panth gets pentakill
There is no better feeling in the world than knowing your enemies are like O_O when you're about to jump in onto all 5 of them. You know all they're thinking is "oh, fuck, it's panth, I've gotta run."
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On February 04 2011 21:31 Zato-1 wrote:
What about Taric/Sion stuns and Karthus wall? I know their range is hardly ideal, but I've seen them start teamfights often enough.
Well, and then there's Grand Skyfall, but I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to Panth compared to a lot of people here.
they're all adequate initiations, but can you seriously say that they're even worth talking about next to Ashe, Malph, Amumu, Rammus, Blitz, Alistar, Annie, or Galio?
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Eve stun best initiation obvs.
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obv, I like my initiation to hinge on the enemy not having an item.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
best initiation is on the hunt
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the squishiest person on your team is the tank. they gets the most aggro meng.
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EPT
