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[Strategy] Advanced Jungling - Page 5

Forum Index > LoL General
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Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 19 2010 21:24 GMT
#81
Fiddlesticks doesn't have good anti-invasion CC until level 4 unless he wants to ruin his jungle speed. And opening elixirs in the jungle is really cheesy, you can't count on it as a reliable start because in cases like the one you said (blue to take early dragon), if the opposing team counts you CS and figures it out and stops you, you're way behind. Fiddle lacks the flexibility to be a really good jungler IMO.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 19 2010 21:46 GMT
#82
Fiddle is an amazing jungler at low ELO, though. You can start wherever, though you have to be careful if it isn't blue, and you just freefarm jungle until 6 and gank everything.



WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 19 2010 21:55 GMT
#83
Attack Speed NuNu is #1 jungler at low Elo imo.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Iri
Profile Joined January 2010
150 Posts
November 19 2010 22:06 GMT
#84
He's not my favorite - that award goes to Rammus - but he is capable... better in jungle than in lane, really.
*he's fast
*he's an early dragon or gank threat (because he can take his fear and red buff early if a gank is necessary)
*he can pass off red to mid for early lane advantage
*he doesn't spend money on pots, so he can easily get early wards or go straight to better gear
*he's difficult to invade successfully because he can take early wards and is always at full health
*he can gank fairly well
My only major complaint is that his lategame is underwhelming.

Open elixirs is a dead giveaway if they have a Cv to see it, but this game for some reason they didn't, and they couldn't tell what was happening from my CS because we played aggressively and opened with a team ancient golem steal, from which I routed their wolves>our wraiths>dragon. It's not something I would usually do, but the combination of no opposing Cv, our massive lvl 1 strength meaning we could play aggressively, and our Cv showing no early wards was too tasty to pass up. Worked out really well, since our top and mid lanes also picked up a kill when their WW attempted to counter-steal our blue, which I had warded.

Regardless, the question I was answering is who can do it fastest? And the answer is Fiddle. Shaco used to be able to do it at level 1 with massive luck, but got nerfed, so it's Fiddle, then Shaco and WW at level 3. For Baron... I know I did it with a level 12 Fiddle, and I suspect that better planning could have gotten a kill as soon as he spawned. I know Olaf can do it at level 11 with a health item and Madred's. Those are both probably 15 minute baron kills, so that's about as fast as it gets.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 19 2010 22:23 GMT
#85
If you're counting elixir openings, I'm like, 90% sure that WW, NuNu, Mundo, and Udyr can all level 2 it.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 19 2010 23:33 GMT
#86
On November 20 2010 07:06 Iri wrote:
He's not my favorite - that award goes to Rammus - but he is capable... better in jungle than in lane, really.
*he's fast
*he's an early dragon or gank threat (because he can take his fear and red buff early if a gank is necessary)
*he can pass off red to mid for early lane advantage
*he doesn't spend money on pots, so he can easily get early wards or go straight to better gear
*he's difficult to invade successfully because he can take early wards and is always at full health
*he can gank fairly well
My only major complaint is that his lategame is underwhelming.

Regardless, the question I was answering is who can do it fastest? And the answer is Fiddle. Shaco used to be able to do it at level 1 with massive luck, but got nerfed, so it's Fiddle, then Shaco and WW at level 3. For Baron... I know I did it with a level 12 Fiddle, and I suspect that better planning could have gotten a kill as soon as he spawned. I know Olaf can do it at level 11 with a health item and Madred's. Those are both probably 15 minute baron kills, so that's about as fast as it gets.


Fiddle is actually kinda slow compared to, say, Olaf or Mundo. Without golem, he's painfully slow. If you take early fear, he's REALLY slow and even then his gank is weak. He's also quite easy to successfully invade because there's so much jungle for him to ward and it's really easy to gank him. Also his late game isn't underwhelming by any means - crowstorm has a great AP ratio and his CC stays always relevant.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2010 17:06 GMT
#87
What should you do when you're jungling a character who's inferior to their jungler (like Jax vs Warwick)? What's the best way to hedge yourself against getting raped in the jungle or getting your creeps/buffs jacked? Should you start with a wraith jack to throw the enemy jungler off?
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
November 22 2010 17:36 GMT
#88
Pantheon is a far inferior jungler to Warwick, but I tend to win Panth vs. WW in the jungle by being aggressive with early ganks to put the ball in WW's court to make him reestablish lane control for his teammates before he hits 6. Basically you need to just figure out something that your jungler is better at and play to that advantage. I dunno for Jax though, lol... he seems almost strictly worse than WW in jungle.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
November 22 2010 17:41 GMT
#89
Won't jax 1v1 warwick though? I swear counterstrike raped warwick. That's jax's main strength vs warwick I think.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
November 22 2010 17:47 GMT
#90
It depends for jax. If you are hax jax you own. If you are wax jax u suck.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
Ecael
Profile Joined February 2008
United States6703 Posts
November 22 2010 17:52 GMT
#91
On November 23 2010 02:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Won't jax 1v1 warwick though? I swear counterstrike raped warwick. That's jax's main strength vs warwick I think.

My experience is that since WW jungles through faster, I would have the level advantage to just Q kite Jax and buy time. It makes running into Jax while counterjungling him a bit of a pain, but not really enough to hurt WW.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2010 18:07 GMT
#92
On November 23 2010 02:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Won't jax 1v1 warwick though? I swear counterstrike raped warwick. That's jax's main strength vs warwick I think.


Jax can't rape WW until he gets to level 6. At lower levels, especially if he's low on mana, he simply can't put out enough damage to beat WW and overcome the heal. Moreover, WW jungles faster than Jax, and should have a level (and item) advantage.
Darkchylde
Profile Joined January 2010
United States473 Posts
November 22 2010 20:44 GMT
#93
It's the later stages of the game is where Jax will own WW, mainly him getting his core Tabi + GRB.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 22 2010 22:33 GMT
#94
Aside from ganking him in the jungle, what's the best way to screw up a jungling WW? Does a wraith jack (or other camp jack) accomplish anything?
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
November 23 2010 02:42 GMT
#95
On November 23 2010 02:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Won't jax 1v1 warwick though? I swear counterstrike raped warwick. That's jax's main strength vs warwick I think.


I don't see how that would work, jax really has no damage except leap + empower combo early, and the cooldowns are quite long on that.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Iri
Profile Joined January 2010
150 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-23 11:22:29
November 23 2010 11:21 GMT
#96
See, here's what confuses me about this question:

WHY THE HELL would you voluntarily jungle as Jax? His jungling is either very slow or requires some lucky dodges, and he's strictly better in lane than in jungle. If they have a WW and the game is even enough that counter-jungling is important, you need to be running someone who's a decent jungler... Rammus, Olaf, Shen, Shaco, Udyr, Amumu...
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 23 2010 15:14 GMT
#97
On November 23 2010 20:21 Iri wrote:
See, here's what confuses me about this question:

WHY THE HELL would you voluntarily jungle as Jax? His jungling is either very slow or requires some lucky dodges, and he's strictly better in lane than in jungle. If they have a WW and the game is even enough that counter-jungling is important, you need to be running someone who's a decent jungler... Rammus, Olaf, Shen, Shaco, Udyr, Amumu...


I definitely prefer to lane as Jax, but there are two problems:

1) I'm level 26 and playing normal games. I don't have a dedicated jungler right now.

2) More often than not, no one picks a jungler, leaving me to do it.

Iri
Profile Joined January 2010
150 Posts
November 24 2010 05:15 GMT
#98
Eh, I feel you. I've been getting so much practice on my jungle Rammus lately, since I've been farming IP for rune pages and nobody wants to tank or jungle... Maybe grab Yi sometime or something? There are several fairly cheap champs who can jungle much better than Jax.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
November 24 2010 06:21 GMT
#99
Jax actually isn't terrible because he has a built in closing skill and a stun. It's pretty hard to get away from him if he lands a leapstrike/counterstrike with red buff.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
November 24 2010 06:35 GMT
#100
When I last jungled Jax, I found him pretty solid actually. Blue buff dependent, rune and mastery dependent, but you can clear jungle by about 3:45 iirc with average counterstrike procs, get tabi -> lizard and drop a pretty powerful gank as long as you make sure there are creeps near whoever you jump on. With Tabi you're really likely to get a creep attack counter proc.
Also I haven't really been impressed by lane Jax.
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
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