EPT
just being a passive aura is kinda dumb. Im trying jax but its like he needs to attack constantly to do anything but has no slow and a stun only if you're getting physically attacked no wonder nobody plays him lol. leap attack should at least have some kind of passive, all you need to do in a teamfight is not physically attack him so he has no dodge and then caster burst or something he seems extremely underpowered compared to annie/chogath which are the other 2 ive played. He basically has to jungle because he lacks lane skills, or maybe 2v2 with someone like taric aurawhoring but he cant gank at all =[[Champion] Taric - Page 3
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
just being a passive aura is kinda dumb. Im trying jax but its like he needs to attack constantly to do anything but has no slow and a stun only if you're getting physically attacked no wonder nobody plays him lol. leap attack should at least have some kind of passive, all you need to do in a teamfight is not physically attack him so he has no dodge and then caster burst or something he seems extremely underpowered compared to annie/chogath which are the other 2 ive played. He basically has to jungle because he lacks lane skills, or maybe 2v2 with someone like taric aurawhoring but he cant gank at all =[ | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On December 13 2010 04:15 TheYango wrote: The awkward thing about Taric's passive in lane is that you don't *want* to be last hitting usually unless it's a minion that your lane partner can't get to (since you're a babysit support champ, 90% of other champs are more farm dependent than you, and you should cede every last hit you can to your lanemate--the only champs I can think of that I'd be ok taking last hits from is other support champs, and Garen once he's filled up Courage), and auto-ing high-hp minions pushes the lane. If you have a decent lane-mate, however, there is an alternative! Simply direct the hits you would be using on minions on to your opponents, and kill them imoimo. Taric is probably the most offensively-minded of all of the supports, because his skillset and best builds all lend toward him being an incredibly capable diver / tower tank. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
Usually yes. Spells on cooldown: 1) you are under attack: get the fuck out 2) fight going in your favor, stun up soon: get in position to stun a high priority target 3) everything else: stick to your ranged carries and wait for your cooldowns while blocking skillshots etc. Ult: 1) Several people attacking a tower/dragon/baron 2) When you need it to survive 3) During fights when it looks like your team can get a few seconds of fairly uninterrupted autoattacking Wards: Check the last couple of pages of the Janna thread, there should be something about it. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On June 23 2011 20:58 Sponkz wrote: I'm fucked now. I don't know what runes to go for, seeing as i, at the moment, are using armor on both seals and marks, to prevent their AD carry from fucking me up early game etc. The problem before with mana, could be fixed with 2 philo stones. Wtf am i supposed to do now? I still want mah armor, but i need mana reg. Honestly 1 Philo and a mana item (Glacial Shroud, Cata, Sheen) should be plenty. Oh yeah what Slayer says: DRing is good. AP is strong on Taric. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Just trade ap quints for gold/10 quints to make up some of the lost gold/10 you gain ap on the dorans ring. Not the biggest fan of half items like spines mentioned mostly because they cost a lot and you don't really need them in lane. (Max mana mostly useful for keeping your ult on for a long period of time, don't randomly waste stuns and your mana will be fine) If you somehow end up with 1500 gold or so almost always save the extra 400 for an aegis than getting a selfish item like a sheen which makes a much smaller difference to the teamfight. Although if you intend to go solo lane super carry tank taric banshee veil+frozen heart+sheen into more ap and lichbane or triforce es #1 best taric. Ignore my earlier posts in this thread they were me when I just started playing trying to come up with some troll taric ap/attack speed hybrid and get mana from damage dealt from passive and spam heals with auto attack -2 seconding your heal cd and damage coming from R+auto attack with high attack speed. Works if you have some magical non moving target and no focus on a non tank melee guy. | ||
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misclick
Korea (South)155 Posts
get a philo, hog, t2 boots, 2x doran rings, 5x wards and you have yourself an end-game taric. if for some reason you accidently ksed someone and scored some gold, you should get an aegis... that's about it. you don't need mana regen. you need mana management and positioning. and you don't get these from items/runes. either start with boots + ward + pot (if you're laning with a more self-sufficient ad carry like trist or cait) or a doran's ring (if you feel like you're going to have to be in lane). if your lane is fine and dandy then roam and make your presence known. if your lane has something like an alistar ashe or some shit then you should just stay. e q w w/q w/q r cv/flash 0/9/21 movespeed/hp quints, armor yellows, mr blues, hp/lvl reds. that's how i stat it. follow around your ganker early game and switch to your carry late-game when team fights start. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
NVM: Thought of a solution, flat mreg glyphs what up. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 23 2011 22:36 Sponkz wrote: You somehow don't get me. It's the early game which is an issue. And starting with a doran's ring, just isn't good (at least for me). How do i make up for early game mana issues? And don't give me some shit about mana management in laning phase, because you can't account for passive/aggressive playstyle on low ELO (yup stuck in ELO hell lol). NVM: Thought of a solution, flat mreg glyphs what up. No. You shouldn't need to use mana regen on any of your runes. They're not slot-effective and yes, mana management is the answer. I use don't even start DRing a lot of the time and I don't run into mana issues. If you're babysitting a carry, don't waste your Shatters unless they're going to turn into kills. Sustaining your carry is your highest priority. Keeping the Shatter passive up is actually very good for mitigating harass vs. them or yourself. Stuns can be used more liberally but make sure they're accomplishing something. In a duo where you're hoping to put out pressure (i.e. Garen, Alistar, Blitz, etc.), you're naturally looking to put out damage, but coordinate it with your lanemate. Your stuns should lead into something from your lanemate, and if they can't, don't waste Shatter. You should't run out of mana before being able to force a kill/bluepill/summoners in a lane like Taric+Garen. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On June 23 2011 23:15 TheYango wrote: No. You shouldn't need to use mana regen on any of your runes. They're not slot-effective and yes, mana management is the answer. I use don't even start DRing a lot of the time and I don't run into mana issues. If you're babysitting a carry, don't waste your Shatters unless they're going to turn into kills. Sustaining your carry is your highest priority. Keeping the Shatter passive up is actually very good for mitigating harass vs. them or yourself. Stuns can be used more liberally but make sure they're accomplishing something. In a duo where you're hoping to put out pressure (i.e. Garen, Alistar, Blitz, etc.), you're naturally looking to put out damage, but coordinate it with your lanemate. Your stuns should lead into something from your lanemate, and if they can't, don't waste Shatter. You should't run out of mana before being able to force a kill/bluepill/summoners in a lane like Taric+Garen. How do you sustain alot of harass? By healing i guess. What happens when you heal? You lose mana. My point is, that if you're against an agressive lane, which tends to poke you/your carry alot, you will end up healing alot. So it's like, either you bluepill or you wait for your mana to be regged. The last thing isn't an option if you don't have enough mana reg. Please enlighten me, cause from my POV, mana reg runes are needed. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Your job isn't just to sit in the back and throw heals on your carry, it's to be the one taking all of the poke/harass. This doesn't mean running around taking unnecessary damage, but it does mean taking damage. Because you built tanky all that harass you soak is half as effective, meaning you need half the healing to deal with it. Less healing is less mana spent. If you're running out of mana super fast you're either taking unnecessary damage or spending your mana unwisely. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 23 2011 22:36 Sponkz wrote: You somehow don't get me. It's the early game which is an issue. And starting with a doran's ring, just isn't good (at least for me). How do i make up for early game mana issues? And don't give me some shit about mana management in laning phase, because you can't account for passive/aggressive playstyle on low ELO (yup stuck in ELO hell lol). NVM: Thought of a solution, flat mreg glyphs what up. You seem to be saying: "I can't go 2 philos any more, and I want more mana regen" Which implies you need the 2 philos to regen mana, when 1 philo and 2 dorans rings has more mana regen and is more useful. What you are really saying is: "I can't open double 3 mp5 mana thingies anymore WTB mana regen" You've got 3 options on taric: 1: Dorans ring. Gives 1 less mp5 than your previous opening but you make it up in ability power and have more hp when is great. Efficient but no ward and no boots so you need a fairly early back. 2: Boots. (with ward+hp pot, or pink ward if they will ward your brush to stop you camping it)You make up the lack of mana regen with the fact that your early game before they get boots is so strong, because simply stun+you get at least 2 free auto hits since you move faster you might get even more, and it lets you avoid harass after you back out. Obviously your carry should be helping dps and you should always stun their carry so they can't retaliate. 3: 3 mp5 thingy+lots of wards and pots and stuff. You more than make up for the 3 mp5 by having hp and mana pots. If you are laning with a melee consider just opening health regen so you don't need to waste mana on heals. Double melee with taric usually means that you can get harassed easily but you are much stronger when you commit to a fight. Just make sure both of you are in position before you stun and you can probably force a summoner spell. Either way, your playstyle is to sit in the brush, if they facecheck you should be much stronger since taric is a boss with naturally high armour, high health, and high base damage. If try to harass your carry too agressively just stun their carry and pwn him with your big mace. Biggest mistake tarics make is using their stun if its not a big attack. It's ok as a last resort to keep your carry alive but it costs 100 mana. Shatter isn't that bad because its only 50 and does a lot of damage and helps your follow up attacks because of the armour pen, but usually you need a stun first to get in range. I guess you can get out of mana by healing but the best way to not need to heal is to camp the brush and put pressure on them. Taric is the strongest support early on pretty much, they shouldn't be able to fight you unless you have some trash carry like sivir and they have vayne or something. I guess you can get harassed a lot if there are too many creeps on their side that its too risky to be agressive, best thing there is tell your guy to back off to tower and you won't lose many creeps because if they have 3-6 more ranged creeps they will clear your wave super fast. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:50 Sponkz wrote: Well doran's ring aren't useful unless your team is doing extremely good. I shouldn't be lasthitting at all, and if i don't get kills/assists/towers im basicly fucked, cause i won't have any gold for wards. But meh, who cares, tell me i build him bad, cause it seems i found the solution for it, but apparently i'm not doing it well enough. Oh well, idc :p As I mentioned in the Janna thread, it takes 10 minutes for a HoG to catch up to a DRing on cost-effectiveness. Before that point there is absolutely no reason to be behind on ward gold because you spent less gold to get superior stats. Effectively, buying a DRing is like getting better stats than a HoG along with immediate spare gold to get 5 wards. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:50 Sponkz wrote: Well doran's ring aren't useful unless your team is doing extremely good. I shouldn't be lasthitting at all, and if i don't get kills/assists/towers im basicly fucked, cause i won't have any gold for wards. But meh, who cares, tell me i build him bad, cause it seems i found the solution for it, but apparently i'm not doing it well enough. Oh well, idc :p Look at this way: Dorans rings are extremely efficient for gold. We're talking about 900 gold worth of stats for 475 gold. If you buy a gold item, it will take roughly 25 minutes for it JUST TO PAY FOR ITESELF. The reason people get them is because they become more and more efficient as the game goes on, Doran's rings are going to be a worse 30-40 minutes in the game but significantly better for the first 20 minutes or so. Instead of spending 800-875 gold on a gold item you are spending 475 gold on an item that gives MORE STATS and guess what? You get free money to spend on wards. Doran's rings also let you dominate early game better, which can result in you getting kills/assists or towers, because if you get a kill in lane you get a lot of free damage on a tower. It can snowball pretty fast. You will get some farm when you carry leaves lane, its going to be minor of course, but not the same as roaming the map and getting literally no creeps. Base gold/10 with greed is 14, add one gold item is 19, so getting that second gold item is 25% more base gold which is significant but it's not the difference between "wards" and "no wards" especially considering how much money you are spending on it compared to the drings. Also, gold quints. If it takes 20 minutes to get your second gold item, it will be 50 minutes until the second gold item makes as much gold as the gold quints have. (3 gold/10 vs 5 gold/10 when you buy the item). Because they take so long to pay for themselves, you have to remember the stats are the most important part of the gold item, the gold gaining bit is actually more about making the item more cost efficient. HoG's are good because they let you stay alive longer in team fights. Kage's are good because AP is good. Philos are arguably good because they help your lane sustain and sustain in tower siege situations. Dorans rings give a combination of all 3 of these things and are more cost effective for a significant portion of the game. Taric is also an early game support mostly as well so that's what you should focus on. Although AP is good on him, his scaling is pretty terrible compared to soraka or sona you mostly just want to have the stats to not get insta bursted and to have the rest on helping your heal. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On June 24 2011 02:57 TheYango wrote: As I mentioned in the Janna thread, it takes 10 minutes for a HoG to catch up to a DRing on cost-effectiveness. Before that point there is absolutely no reason to be behind on ward gold because you spent less gold to get superior stats. Effectively, buying a DRing is like getting better stats than a HoG along with immediate spare gold to get 5 wards. While you might be right, i still think there's a difference in being cost-effictive and being useful as a support to your team. Sure DRing might be more cost-efficient than the HoG when you buy it upfront, but the constant gp/10 makes you being able to piss wards all over the map. With the DRing i'm relying on either my gp/10 quints or the gold ticking in every second as standard. 5 wards won't be a game-changer. If a game lasts say 30 minutes, you should've popped out more than 5 wards, and if you suddenly lose because of no map control, you have no way of getting back into the game, because you can't re-ward, since your team just got aced without killing anyone and you don't have gold for wards. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Also, I seriously seriously doubt you have problems buying wards even off just base gold and gold quints. The only times I am ever short of gold for wards is when I am losing horribly have 0 gold items and I bought an aegis. The main trouble with warding is actually losing map control and the other team having oracles, more than gold. You never need to FILL the map with wards anyway. Just entrances to jungle and baron/dragon, sometimes their buffs, obviously focusing around baron when its the main objective. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 24 2011 03:04 Sponkz wrote: While you might be right, i still think there's a difference in being cost-effictive and being useful as a support to your team. Sure DRing might be more cost-efficient than the HoG when you buy it upfront, but the constant gp/10 makes you being able to piss wards all over the map. With the DRing i'm relying on either my gp/10 quints or the gold ticking in every second as standard. 5 wards won't be a game-changer. If a game lasts say 30 minutes, you should've popped out more than 5 wards, and if you suddenly lose because of no map control, you have no way of getting back into the game, because you can't re-ward, since your team just got aced without killing anyone and you don't have gold for wards. Your first gp10 item will pretty much always get to be cost-effective. Thats not being argued. However, your second one (which is the issue at hand, with regard to the stackability of them), will not be bought until 15-20 minutes. They don't become worthwhile till 35-40 minutes. Before then,you're not even gaining wards from them--you're just filling the gold hole the items themselves created. And even after that, both teams will have oracles on constant rotation, so you're not going to haphazardly dump wards around the map. And you got it backwards. DRings are BETTER when your team is doing poorly because they give immediate stats. Early kills/towers/dragons favor gp10 items because getting them early increases the chance of payoff. You don't buy gold/10 when your team has no control over objectives and might lose before the gold/10 amounts to anything. | ||
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