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On March 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 21:53 phyvo wrote:
Wait, I thought they said the average game was 38 minutes, they even produced a shiny graph showing the IP systems cross the IP they give at that point. Except at that point you no longer get any fast finish bonus and it's just the base victory amount, whereas you'd get bonus IP with an earlier victory. You can't compare like that either.
Are you saying the graph is incorrect (it said it included the flat values and looked like it did), or are you just saying that simply knowing the average doesn't really determine anything, we need the distribution for time spent on a game? Because I can agree with the latter, but need data to conclude anything about the former.
It all depends on the actual distribution of game time, which is why I'm going to record my own data for myself. In the threads I read there was a serious lack of solid information to go by, most assertions amounted to "80 IP for 20 minute win gg riot" or "all my games end in surrenders" kind of stuff and until we know what the real distribution is it's actually impossible to scientifically know whether we've been given the shaft.
Because the only data we have states that the average game is 38 minutes and you get more for anything above that now and less for anything below that, you can't know for a fact that we are or aren't getting shafted until you collect some real data. Which is why I want to.
On March 09 2011 22:31 BluzMan wrote:
That removal was very bad, agreed. Noone feels inclined to finish games fast anymore, because they get less IP for it, not more.
It depends. The faster the game ends the more IP you get per minute regardless, but if you can draw out your victories and surrender quickly and correctly for your defeats then yes you can game the system. Simply drawing every game out though will actually hinder your IP gain.
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On March 10 2011 00:05 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:On March 09 2011 21:53 phyvo wrote:
Wait, I thought they said the average game was 38 minutes, they even produced a shiny graph showing the IP systems cross the IP they give at that point. Except at that point you no longer get any fast finish bonus and it's just the base victory amount, whereas you'd get bonus IP with an earlier victory. You can't compare like that either. Are you saying the graph is incorrect (it said it included the flat values and looked like it did), or are you just saying that simply knowing the average doesn't really determine anything, we need the distribution for time spent on a game? Because I can agree with the latter, but need data to conclude anything about the former. It all depends on the actual distribution of game time, which is why I'm going to record my own data for myself. In the threads I read there was a serious lack of solid information to go by, most assertions amounted to "80 IP for 20 minute win gg riot" or "all my games end in surrenders" kind of stuff and until we know what the real distribution is it's actually impossible to scientifically know whether we've been given the shaft. Because the only data we have states that the average game is 38 minutes and you get more for anything above that now and less for anything below that, you can't know for a fact that we are or aren't getting shafted until you collect some real data. Which is why I want to. Show nested quote +On March 09 2011 22:31 BluzMan wrote:
That removal was very bad, agreed. Noone feels inclined to finish games fast anymore, because they get less IP for it, not more. It depends. The faster the game ends the more IP you get per minute regardless, but if you can draw out your victories and surrender quickly and correctly for your defeats then yes you can game the system. Simply drawing every game out though will actually hinder your IP gain.
I'm saying that before, you got bonus for a fast win, and even for a 5 hour long game you still would get the base amount, which would be like 100ish IP.
Even if the graphs met at that point, it doesn't mean it's the average... it'd make sense if say, you with the current system got a minimum of 100 ip at 35min + lower. But it goes all the way down to like 74, which never happened with the old system even if the game lasted a week.
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this is silly. no one is gonna play differently because of ip gains, everyone still plays to win (cough) and prolonging a game for IP is a risk to winning.
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I assume IP is proportional to the length of the game but I suppose if you're 100% winning and they won't surrender you can troll to get guaranteed IP.
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On March 10 2011 01:26 Slayer91 wrote:
I assume IP is proportional to the length of the game but I suppose if you're 100% winning and they won't surrender you can troll to get guaranteed IP.
dodeedo
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i've come back from games where we were down 30 kills and all our towers and inhibs
every minute that you're winning and you piss away is a minute the enemy team is catching up
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On March 10 2011 01:31 Caller wrote:
i've come back from games where we were down 30 kills and all our towers and inhibs
every minute that you're winning and you piss away is a minute the enemy team is catching up
Same, but the other way round. Don't let Mundo + Morde + Nasus farm until they reach godmode. They will ace you every time you try to kill the nex, even with Baron + 3 Inhibs down, and then win the game in 30 seconds.
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On March 10 2011 01:31 Caller wrote:
i've come back from games where we were down 30 kills and all our towers and inhibs
every minute that you're winning and you piss away is a minute the enemy team is catching up
What about games where our team is winning and Caller goes off and farms for 10 minutes??
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On March 10 2011 01:37 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 01:31 Caller wrote:
i've come back from games where we were down 30 kills and all our towers and inhibs
every minute that you're winning and you piss away is a minute the enemy team is catching up Same, but the other way round. Don't let Mundo + Morde + Nasus farm until they reach godmode. They will ace you every time you try to kill the nex, even with Baron + 3 Inhibs down, and then win the game in 30 seconds.
mordes godmode is somewhere in midgame where nobody has that much armour/mr/hp to survive your damage but you're still beefy. I find he's kinda weak later on. Not suprising that happens to caller since he plays so much of those characters. Nasus can really godmode I can testify to. Have had reverse games where I can't carry with morde and haven't played mundo.
BTW farm = pushing lanes which u need to win!!
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Is playing ranked just a test of patience? I peaked at 1450 before getting in a streak of bad games and dropped to 1290, I have now climbed back up to ~1360 but I can't just get higher.
I totally don't think this is my fault, when I duo queue, we get severely challenged teammates who don't talk in draft and and pick our 2nd/3rd/4th AD carry, or make dumb bans and the other team ends up getting a Shen and then they proceed to get farmed all game.
Now when I solo queue, my last pick always says he'll play whatever, then pick a non jungling Olaf when we don't have one. Or I get trolls that take smite on a jungle worthy champ, don't talk in draft and change summoners right before game starts. All my games involve no jungle (unless I do it), pushed lanes that get ganked 5 times before 15 minute mark and no one else buying wards.
I tried playing Morde every game! It doesn't work even if I get farmed because the other two lanes are feeding >.<'
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On March 10 2011 01:54 Fawkes wrote:
Is playing ranked just a test of patience? I peaked at 1450 before getting in a streak of bad games and dropped to 1290, I have now climbed back up to ~1360 but I can't just get higher.
I totally don't think this is my fault, when I duo queue, we get severely challenged teammates who don't talk in draft and and pick our 2nd/3rd/4th AD carry, or make dumb bans and the other team ends up getting a Shen and then they proceed to get farmed all game.
Now when I solo queue, my last pick always says he'll play whatever, then pick a non jungling Olaf when we don't have one. Or I get trolls that take smite on a jungle worthy champ, don't talk in draft and change summoners right before game starts. All my games involve no jungle (unless I do it), pushed lanes that get ganked 5 times before 15 minute mark and no one else buying wards.
I tried playing Morde every game! It doesn't work even if I get farmed because the other two lanes are feeding >.<'
i don't understand how you're failing
if you can't win a 1v5 as mordekaiser you're doing it wrong
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edit: I posted this in advanced jungling thread.
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Triforce+HoG=best tanky dps item combo? Alistar, Irelia, Jarvan Malphite and others do wonders with it. It's really interesting how much of a dps boost triforce procs give to skillspam characters.
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On March 10 2011 00:54 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2011 00:05 phyvo wrote:On March 09 2011 22:30 Shikyo wrote:On March 09 2011 21:53 phyvo wrote:
Wait, I thought they said the average game was 38 minutes, they even produced a shiny graph showing the IP systems cross the IP they give at that point. Except at that point you no longer get any fast finish bonus and it's just the base victory amount, whereas you'd get bonus IP with an earlier victory. You can't compare like that either. Are you saying the graph is incorrect (it said it included the flat values and looked like it did), or are you just saying that simply knowing the average doesn't really determine anything, we need the distribution for time spent on a game? Because I can agree with the latter, but need data to conclude anything about the former. It all depends on the actual distribution of game time, which is why I'm going to record my own data for myself. In the threads I read there was a serious lack of solid information to go by, most assertions amounted to "80 IP for 20 minute win gg riot" or "all my games end in surrenders" kind of stuff and until we know what the real distribution is it's actually impossible to scientifically know whether we've been given the shaft. Because the only data we have states that the average game is 38 minutes and you get more for anything above that now and less for anything below that, you can't know for a fact that we are or aren't getting shafted until you collect some real data. Which is why I want to. On March 09 2011 22:31 BluzMan wrote:
That removal was very bad, agreed. Noone feels inclined to finish games fast anymore, because they get less IP for it, not more. It depends. The faster the game ends the more IP you get per minute regardless, but if you can draw out your victories and surrender quickly and correctly for your defeats then yes you can game the system. Simply drawing every game out though will actually hinder your IP gain. I'm saying that before, you got bonus for a fast win, and even for a 5 hour long game you still would get the base amount, which would be like 100ish IP.
This makes me think you don't understand . You get *more* for long games now, "still getting the base amount" isn't a pro for the old system in regards to long games, it's a con. Short games yeah I know.
Even if the graphs met at that point, it doesn't mean it's the average... it'd make sense if say, you with the current system got a minimum of 100 ip at 35min + lower. But it goes all the way down to like 74, which never happened with the old system even if the game lasted a week.
I know that the graphs meeting at that point doesn't mean it's the average. However, Riot stated that they consciously put the intersection point for the two systems at that average. Later they found the average to be lower than they expected (by 1 minute I think) and changed a couple numbers around to compensate. Looking at LoLbase data since the Maokai patch with the IP changes leads me to believe the average is around 36 minutes, which isn't very far from what Riot said. As a result, as far as I'm concerned, 36-37 minutes is the length of your average game.
As for "going all the way down to 74", the current system goes all the way up to 140. What does this mean? Not much by itself. You can't prove the new system is worse without quantitative analysis and I don't see you doing any or quoting anyone who has.
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Riot says that IP gains are on average up now: link. No meaningful details past that though, so interpret that as you wish.
Personally I find I gain about the same amount of IP per time under the new system as under the old one.
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Well my average IP rewards are up but like all of my recent games are TL B members + a few others screwing around, half the time buying all gold/5 items on lategame teams and waiting for like 50 mins where we each 1 shot squishies. Or just trolling each other and making the game last longer as a result. 
Mainly though if you're actually playing serious and tryhard, the IP awards are down because most of the time the games will end 20-25 mins in that case. The new IP system basically punishes people who know how to play the game and who can end it fast, and rewards people who don't know how to do that.
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On March 10 2011 03:33 BlackPaladin wrote:Well my average IP rewards are up but like all of my recent games are TL B members + a few others screwing around, half the time buying all gold/5 items on lategame teams and waiting for like 50 mins where we each 1 shot squishies. Or just trolling each other and making the game last longer as a result. Mainly though if you're actually playing serious and tryhard, the IP awards are down because most of the time the games will end 20-25 mins in that case. The new IP system basically punishes people who know how to play the game and who can end it fast, and rewards people who don't know how to do that.
nah its just cuz u miss 3 tosses in a row on a target going in a line kk
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Crate: My own analysis (that I just completed) of 195 more or less randomly selected LoLbase games since the Maokai patch suggested that IP per game is down a little bit and IP per minute is down 5%. But honestly my spreadsheet is at best an estimation and a 5% difference doesn't mean much except that the enormous amounts of QQ and angst thrown around are unwarranted.
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![[image loading]](http://i56.tinypic.com/2e0o1vn.jpg)
always kill never die, can escape entire enemy team without ghost or ult
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On March 10 2011 01:54 Fawkes wrote:
Is playing ranked just a test of patience? I peaked at 1450 before getting in a streak of bad games and dropped to 1290, I have now climbed back up to ~1360 but I can't just get higher.
I totally don't think this is my fault, when I duo queue, we get severely challenged teammates who don't talk in draft and and pick our 2nd/3rd/4th AD carry, or make dumb bans and the other team ends up getting a Shen and then they proceed to get farmed all game.
Now when I solo queue, my last pick always says he'll play whatever, then pick a non jungling Olaf when we don't have one. Or I get trolls that take smite on a jungle worthy champ, don't talk in draft and change summoners right before game starts. All my games involve no jungle (unless I do it), pushed lanes that get ganked 5 times before 15 minute mark and no one else buying wards.
I tried playing Morde every game! It doesn't work even if I get farmed because the other two lanes are feeding >.<'
You need to remove your bad games, identify when you're playing bad and why and stop. Even things like lack of sleep or not eating for a while before playing can affect you badly. sometime you get games ur teammates are just bad, but you will play badly sometimes and not win games you could have.
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EPT
