EPT2. Rammus/Udyr/WW
3. Amumu/Shaco
4. no one else viable in jungle
IMO
EDIT: for arranged 5s that is. Shaco is a solo queue super-star.
General Discussion/Off-topic - Page 413
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
2. Rammus/Udyr/WW 3. Amumu/Shaco 4. no one else viable in jungle IMO EDIT: for arranged 5s that is. Shaco is a solo queue super-star. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Some problems with elo: 1: in most elo or ranking systems, if you win like a bunch of games straight, you start getting accelerated gains. LoL doesnt do this. It would really help bump people like me who go 6-0, then 4-4, then 9-0, up faster to where w-l would be at 50%. 2: There needs to be a legitimate split between people who have played more than 50 ranked games and those who havent. As I said yesterday, the games I had at 1.1k were MUCH better than those I play now at 1.3k. Why? Because the people at 1.1 had played long enough for their elo to stabilize. They were bad, but they knew they were bad, and were willing to listen. Now? Pure smacktalk as people with 3 ranked wins blow up on each other after first blood. I've had 3 straight games with ragequits because of smalktalk on my own team. And its all from people with like 4 games played, and are absolutely terrible, but think they are the shit. Sure, the people who are at 1100 with 200 games played are bad. I was there 2 weeks ago before I learned how to win. But if you're there, its because you are missing some fundamental piece of how to play and win at lol, and you just need to figure out what it is before you skyrocket up. But the players with 3 wins at 1300 are MUCH worse overall. They got lucky, think they're hot shit, and play overly recklessly and blame others for their mistakes. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On February 28 2011 18:10 Brees wrote: think im going to take a break from this game, it is decidedly not fun anymore atm.  Become #1 starcraft2 player while you're gone imo. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23469 Posts
Top: Tank Mid: AP Carry Jungle: Tanky DPS Bot: Support/AD That everyone in EU seems to take as law, though I saw some Support/tank with AD mid and AP top on us, the template is the same. There seems to be no place for champs like shaco and akali, or melee carries. Think this is a metagame problem is a design fault? What about DPS tanks like garen, mundo, and morde? Think they just need buffs or are just not viable by definition? Perhaps there should be some other defensive advantage other than tower hits, and towers can become less beefy later on, to remove how important AD ranged carries are? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:00 Slayer91 wrote: What do you guys think of the team comp of: Top: Tank Mid: AP Carry Jungle: Tanky DPS Bot: Support/AD That everyone in EU seems to take as law, though I saw some Support/tank with AD mid and AP top on us, the template is the same. There seems to be no place for champs like shaco and akali, or melee carries. Think this is a metagame problem is a design fault? What about DPS tanks like garen, mundo, and morde? Think they just need buffs or are just not viable by definition? *shrugs* it makes a lot of sense but it has counters imo. Like, tanks and AP scale better off of levels than Ranged DPS, who scale the best off of farm (hence they technically make the most sense bot with support). However, I don't think a Ashe + Janna lane is gonna do anything but take it in the ass vs. the sort of setup CLG runs (Cho + Sion or some gay shit like that), since ranged carries can't really do much to stop the support from getting insta-gibbed at early levels. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
In the jungle it has got to be Rammus, he is way too strong for anyone to compete. He can gank like nobody else. Mid i don't see AP carry working but then again i rarely see AP champs carry games. Something like MF seems more solid imo. Bot needs strong laners. I personally dislike a lot of support champs, but most of that has to do with people pretending like it's enough to buff or heall you. Best support champs are powerfull laners like Zilean or Taric, starting off with helping you get a strong lane phase and later on being there to support whoever is the most vital to your team. Irelia - MF - Rammus - Janna + Pantheon. That would probably be my dream team but no way in hell that any ranked match will let you get that settup. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:00 Slayer91 wrote: What do you guys think of the team comp of: Top: Tank Mid: AP Carry Jungle: Tanky DPS Bot: Support/AD That everyone in EU seems to take as law, though I saw some Support/tank with AD mid and AP top on us, the template is the same. There seems to be no place for champs like shaco and akali, or melee carries. Think this is a metagame problem is a design fault? What about DPS tanks like garen, mundo, and morde? Think they just need buffs or are just not viable by definition? Perhaps there should be some other defensive advantage other than tower hits, and towers can become less beefy later on, to remove how important AD ranged carries are? TBH from my limited experience of watching EU games, my impression is that the reason for this is that the bottom lane in US games is effectively a solo due to supports roaming very early in US games, while in EU, bot lane is effectively a babysit lane, where the support generally stays in lane. The logic for both setups seems to be the same--you give the AD carry the safest lane so they can freefarm, and you give the tank the riskiest lane because they're beefy and the hardest to gank/dive. It's just that on the US, mid is safest because of the short distance, and bot is the most dangerous because with non-roamer teams, bot is a 1v2; on EU, bot is the safest because it's a babysit lane, and top is the most dangerous because of the long distance between the towers. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On March 01 2011 03:52 Mogwai wrote: 1. Nunu/Olaf/Trundle 2. Rammus/Udyr/WW 3. Amumu/Shaco 4. no one else viable in jungle IMO EDIT: for arranged 5s that is. Shaco is a solo queue super-star. Yi also solo queue superstar. On March 01 2011 05:00 Slayer91 wrote: What do you guys think of the team comp of: Top: Tank Mid: AP Carry Jungle: Tanky DPS Bot: Support/AD That everyone in EU seems to take as law, though I saw some Support/tank with AD mid and AP top on us, the template is the same. There seems to be no place for champs like shaco and akali, or melee carries. Think this is a metagame problem is a design fault? What about DPS tanks like garen, mundo, and morde? Think they just need buffs or are just not viable by definition? Perhaps there should be some other defensive advantage other than tower hits, and towers can become less beefy later on, to remove how important AD ranged carries are? Tank can be traded for support in a solo lane. This is mostly to give bluebuff priority and higher CDR to the cc that the supports bring. And by support I basically mean janna/cho. In EU this is pretty much the law tho, bot is the babysit lane with the small river brush being the most contested ward spot. The only somewhat uncommon but still accepted alternative for an AD carry mid is TF. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:10 zalz wrote: Top has got to be either a tank or a tanky champ. In my opinion Irelia is the best top by far. She is tough, has lane staying power and will dish out high damage. In the jungle it has got to be Rammus, he is way too strong for anyone to compete. He can gank like nobody else. Mid i don't see AP carry working but then again i rarely see AP champs carry games. Something like MF seems more solid imo. Bot needs strong laners. I personally dislike a lot of support champs, but most of that has to do with people pretending like it's enough to buff or heall you. Best support champs are powerfull laners like Zilean or Taric, starting off with helping you get a strong lane phase and later on being there to support whoever is the most vital to your team. Irelia - MF - Rammus - Janna + Pantheon. That would probably be my dream team but no way in hell that any ranked match will let you get that settup. And people still wonder why noone takes "that's really good strategy on the EU" argument seriously Speaking of which, as usually Europe has problems with Chat and starting games, yay... Something i dislike about AD carry bottom is - you may not need levels as much as champs than AP carry but at the same time 2 lvls DO make a difference in HP so you can have some problems vs assassins. And like Smash said - ranged dps + support will have problems vs tanky-cc laners (blitz, cho, alistar, sion, taric) which dominate bottom. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
But personally I prefer double stun bot. I feel like the best bot combos have been CLG's cho/alistar and the classic Janna/Taric for the CC on demand. With harassment coming onto zilean and the huge shield nerf of last patch Zil/Malph seems a lot weaker of a lane choice to me. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:27 Kaniol wrote: Ashe/Udyr/Taric/Sion/whatever is a good teamcomp with lots of cc. 5th person can be yi, i really don't care at this point ;x Udyr needs the kickstart even more than amumu, Ashe and Sion are the best solo laners for the easy ganks but if the opponents field kennen/urgot or an equally ungankable choice of solo lanes the udyr pick is almost wasted. I suppose in such a circumstance I would be really aggressive around dragon, but I would have to be on blue side for it to work. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:27 Kaniol wrote: Ashe/Udyr/Taric/Sion/whatever is a good teamcomp with lots of cc. 5th person can be yi, i really don't care at this point ;x Chaox absolutely hates udyr for some reason. I think a big part of it is he rapes when fed, but is useless otherwise since pheonix nerf means he cant just build pure tank and still jungle like an absolute boss. Wriggles Tri Udyr is scary, but you have to be retarded to let him get that fed, as evidenced by what he did to solomid. Still dont get how they let him do that. Edit: Amumu teir 3 Mog? Really? He jungles super fast, and his ulti is still the best ulti on a tank in game. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:34 Two_DoWn wrote: Chaox absolutely hates udyr for some reason. I think a big part of it is he rapes when fed, but is useless otherwise since pheonix nerf means he cant just build pure tank and still jungle like an absolute boss. Wriggles Tri Udyr is scary, but you have to be retarded to let him get that fed, as evidenced by what he did to solomid. Still dont get how they let him do that. Edit: Amumu teir 3 Mog? Really? He jungles super fast, and his ulti is still the best ulti on a tank in game. Watch the ESL finals and look at what happens if a team facing an amumu is not retarded. Just have a random champion sit at their blue and he has no way of doing it. If a team with an amumu wins a game it's only because the opposing team failed. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:24 Mogwai wrote: My ideal team comp is Annie/Ashe/Zilean/Malphite/Olaf for whatever it's worth. Strong solos for mid game who both flawlessly transform into CC bots to let Zilean + Olaf go nuts with the late game. And Malphite + Zilean is a mean spirited bot lane. How about Zilean solo top, and putting another support like Janna or Taric bot? I dunno, like, I understand that bot lane support Zilean is perfectly fine, but the fact that he competes with your AP for blue buff just rubs me the wrong way--and if you don't get blue buff, you spend the whole game building items for the stats that you could just get from a blue buff (CDR, mana regen, etc.). And a farmed blue buff Zilean is just scary as hell. On March 01 2011 05:39 r33k wrote: Watch the ESL finals and look at what happens if a team facing an amumu is not retarded. Just have a random champion sit at their blue and he has no way of doing it. If a team with an amumu wins a game it's only because the opposing team failed. To be fair, they also sent Taric to lane, meaning that he had to run all the way back across the map before he could help to drive Alistar away. Hotshot would have been way less disruptive if he knew there was a greater risk of him getting caught and killed. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:42 TheYango wrote: How about Zilean solo top, and putting another support like Janna or Taric bot? I dunno, like, I understand that bot lane support Zilean is perfectly fine, but the fact that he competes with your AP for blue buff just rubs me the wrong way. And a farmed blue buff Zilean is just scary as hell. viable but not my cup of tea. I don't like Zilean solo, sry. He can't carry shit, the only reason jiji makes him look so good top is that all his other lanes win anyway, lol. At least that's my take on it. | ||
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LightRailCoyote
United States982 Posts
On March 01 2011 05:39 r33k wrote: Watch the ESL finals and look at what happens if a team facing an amumu is not retarded. Just have a random champion sit at their blue and he has no way of doing it. If a team with an amumu wins a game it's only because the opposing team failed. Couldn't you just 5man mummies blue and then give him lvl 2 off a lane before he goes back to jungling? I thought that's what ppl did in wcg finals a while back, wouldn't that be the safest way to ensure mummy's jungle? | ||
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