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On January 10 2011 14:01 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 08:55 Navi wrote:
shen, taric, alistar, blitz with no survivability is kinda lolworthy
like i'd love to see a shen midgame with boots + dshield + wardspam try to taunt without getting killed LOL
edit: morgana not being able to use her really good AP ratios (hence why morgana is a viable solo option, to allow her cata farm so that she can build into RoA or w/e) diminishes her power in mid game and late game in particular very badly. She is support in a way, but she can deal good damage while fulfilling that role. seeing as a lot of high level games go into the late game, it would be a waste to just wardspam with her.
i agree on soraka, she can fulfill her job without items, but she provides relatively low utility (a silence and healing) as compared to janna, leading to her relative uselessness in most scenarios.
i think the main point in question, that stacking all the gold on one hero is not efficient in LoL (at the very least compared to HoN) is agreed upon tho Why would you get survivability on Alistar, he is an AP nuker with no farm. You 4-shot people and have a built in zhonya that allows you to move, idk why you would build tanky items on him. And udyr has been terrible since 2 patches ago, but that's alright because all junglers are terrible now and dragon means shit. All junglers except for nunu, the only top tier jungler that has not been nerfed, but baddies play him AP and max his Q so nobody can see how good he is.
Wtf are you talking about dragon is worth more than top lane now and junglers are fucking awesome
I don't mean to sound rude but stop posting bullshit. The top 3 junglers are Rammus/Warwick/Shaco, Nunu's like fourth or fifth best and you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, why would they max Q? That's his consume.
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On January 10 2011 09:17 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 09:09 Phrost wrote:On January 10 2011 08:55 Navi wrote:
shen, taric, alistar, blitz with no survivability is kinda lolworthy
like i'd love to see a shen midgame with boots + dshield + wardspam try to taunt without getting killed LOL
edit: morgana not being able to use her really good AP ratios (hence why morgana is a viable solo option, to allow her cata farm so that she can build into RoA or w/e) diminishes her power in mid game and late game in particular very badly. She is support in a way, but she can deal good damage while fulfilling that role. seeing as a lot of high level games go into the late game, it would be a waste to just wardspam with her.
i agree on soraka, she can fulfill her job without items, but she provides relatively low utility (a silence and healing) as compared to janna, leading to her relative uselessness in most scenarios.
i think the main point in question, that stacking all the gold on one hero is not efficient in LoL (at the very least compared to HoN) is agreed upon tho Alistar that buys survivability is stupid as hell. The natural survivability of taric and alistar is high enough that they really dont need items. Shen and blitz can do without items if your team is already doing well. Really both of those characters just need to disrupt the enemies and thats about it. A well placed taunt or rocket grab can screw an entire enemy formation even if they die. Most people play morgana as a heavy AP oriented champ but dark binding and soul shackles provide enough cc that really she doesnt need to kill anyone or do a ton of damage. This is ofcourse assuming best case scenerios for your team. If you're winning only your carries really need items but if you're losing or it's even everything counts. i just grabbed all the beefy-sounding champions and lol'd at them but having basic survivability (like a HoG + mercs, whatever) does go a looong way as compared to having boots + dring on alistar (for that small 1700ish gold you get a ccredux passive and extra def and health and mres, and the HoG pays for itself later). Especially seeing as armor and mres, bought when there is relatively little of the stat, is especially efficient. Having that minimal survivability is really nice for that relatively small amount of gold, which would translate to slightly less than a BF for your carry.
You too, all of the champs I listed are perfectly fine giving literally ALL the farm to their lanemate.
Also for reference on Alistar, if you still think he needs survivability:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/a55IY.jpg)
And really? Reread your post. You'd rather have your alistar have some armor and MR than your carry have a BF SWORD?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 10 2011 14:01 r33k wrote:
And udyr has been terrible since 2 patches ago, but that's alright because all junglers are terrible now and dragon means shit. All junglers except for nunu, the only top tier jungler that has not been nerfed, but baddies play him AP and max his Q so nobody can see how good he is.
Who maxes Q as Nunu?
And I fail to see how the Dragon buff hurt junglers like Rammus who were already slow dragoners to begin with. If anything, it frees up a couple levels where they can gank without worrying about the enemy trying to sneak a solo dragon.
On January 10 2011 15:23 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
You too, all of the champs I listed are perfectly fine giving literally ALL the farm to their lanemate.
Knowing Navi, I'm pretty sure that's not what's in question here--the issue isn't about in-lane farm but about kills mid- and late-game and who is the "best" person to have them. That said, many of the champs in question really doesn't need kills either--assist/Dragon/Tower gold and the occasional farm should be enough to get by.
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Which, coincidentally, you also want going to the carry.
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On January 10 2011 15:35 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Which, coincidentally, you also want going to the carry.
im scrub kk
the point i was trying to argue wasn't about the laning phase and all of the gold in the laning phase being distributed as such (that was just a deviation that came when we were talking about janna) but rather how different gold spreads affect team play.
and the point we were making was how regi (who was going 20/30-2/3 in games spinesheath was watching) barely won one of those games and lost the other, and how this might be because certain amounts of gold are necessary for most champions to be effective
and the survivability vs bf issue is moot, because i was thinking about HoN values (where it is actually possible to have very little gold into the midgame due to the way supports are played and how deaths are punished with removal of gold). I guess the closest comparison would be a IE and dorans toting carry getting another BF vs a offtank not having mercs and basic survivability, and if the offtank is that squishy they aren't really tanks at all.
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This isn't HoN and sadly I can't visualize that analogy because I've never played HoN. I'm just telling you what I know from being a top LoL player. Babysitter + carry bottom lane is amazing in a team comp and I'm surprised more teams don't strive to do it.
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is awesome32281 Posts
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How come Eve is banned all the time yet nobody mentions her as a top tier jungler?
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because she's more 'not fun' then 'really good'
also she feeds off bads
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Because she's banned all the time obviously 
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if it wasnt for that eve that I ulted I never wouldve gotten that penta kill
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AP yi, legit or most legit?
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Playing heroes in normal games obv proves their viability.
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On January 10 2011 18:33 mercurial wrote:
Playing heroes in normal games obv proves their viability.
Playing heroes @ low elo obv proves their viability.
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Every hero is viable
Each player has his own definiton of "viable"
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On January 10 2011 18:35 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 18:33 mercurial wrote:
Playing heroes in normal games obv proves their viability. Playing heroes @ low elo obv proves their viability.
That doesn't really work for you seeing that i am 1900 elo. :/
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1900 EU solo queue? Sounds like 1200 US solo queue B)
(I kid.)
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On January 10 2011 19:25 Kaniol wrote:
Every hero is viable
Each player has his own definiton of "viable"
Each hero is viable, in that you can play them if you own them or they are free for the week.
Competitive? that's another matter...
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On January 10 2011 20:34 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 19:25 Kaniol wrote:
Every hero is viable
Each player has his own definiton of "viable" Each hero is viable, in that you can play them if you own them or they are free for the week. Competitive? that's another matter...
Yes, each hero is competitive. Good urgot can dominate with his earlygame strength, good swain can disrupt enemy team and lifesteal-tank quite well. Just some champs aren't simple, other fill niche roles but yes, they can be seen in competitive play.
I'm not stating that urgot+swain+ryze+trynd+cassiopeia will be owningfaces team but if you have all the "standard roles" in your team filled (1 tank, 1 ranged dps, 1 AP) you can get any of these "niche champs" and it will not be a bad decision.
Also in the end - it's the player's skill that matters, not champion pick (as long as you have decent composition).
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EPT
