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How does dust do anything but make invisibility worse in teamfights?
Evelynn is annoying because she's difficult to account for, similar to old-Shaco, TF, and Pantheon. I think Eve is about where she should be.
As to how stealth works in LoL, the POINT is to be a binary mechanic. There are a lot of them in LoL. Your character is either alive or dead, perfectly functional or not at all. Stuns are binary mechanics. Eve is not worthless if she's visible. In fact, the stun is probably the more valuable part of the skill. So, Oracles or Vision Wards (which you have some reasons to buy anyways) will deny her her closing mechanism and marginally reduce her escape options. If she's building DPS, she shouldn't be initiating anyways.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 30 2010 13:50 UniversalSnip wrote:
I think this game could afford to have a ton of things to be more like dota tbh (eg move the summoners to items, add out there items like lothars, dota mapstyle which is a lot better than SR, etc). The game is different enough that there's no need to avoid things just for the sake of being different.
I'm not a huge dota fan, it's just the lack of things dota did perfectly sometimes puzzles me.
Lothar's is balanced within the framework of DotA where the general power level of things is just much higher. The shining example of this is Black King Bar, which, while very good in DotA, wouldn't last a day in LoL without a hotfix.
Riot sort of shot themselves in the foot by scaling back the power level of everything so far because it limits the design space with which they can work--since a lot of unique mechanics are going to be high-power by nature.
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Jesus I just played with the most retarded group ever. I was veigar....I was so farmed from my q, I had 700 AP with just zyhonyas, abyssal, rylais, and blue elixer....
I told them THREE times not to engage.
First time, I say I'm getting blue real quick, don't engage. They engage, 4v5 and die. I clean up 3 or so and get away after the fact, but that's all I could do.
Second time they all bought 1 ward as I told them to do so, just in case they are dumb enough to engage 4v5 again at least they can throw a ward down and I can tele to it. It wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted them to stick near me as I told them to do. But they wouldn't listen, so at least that was a backup plan. But then......they engage.....again. I yell ward ward ward and NO ONE PUTS THEIR WARD DOWN. Takes 1 second, but no. Soooo, 4v5 lost again. They push our base. I kill 3 at our tower but die, and they push 2 of our inhibs. We get baron, we push a few of their towers down. We're still up TWENTY team kills at this point because all I did all laning phase was gank to try to carry these baddies, even though never did a single one listen to me and push their towers once we killed them......
So now all 4 of them had a ward on them by my orders once again. I'm defending our base that's getting pushed in by super minions otherwise we autolose. I tell them to defend. Instead, they are, for no reason at all, by baron, that won't respawn for another 2 mins anyway. I ping, yell, and scream for them to get back and defend. They. Don't. Fucking. Listen. They instead engage AGAIN 4v5 against the other team. I yell and ping to ward as I ghost to them. Still no ward at all. Not fucking one is put down but all 4 have it in their inventory. I get there only to be able to kill 3 once more but die to the remaining 2. So then they push us for the win.
Moral of the story. I am terrible at this game, yes, who should have just warded the entire map myself, as my team wouldn't do it. But wow others have no common sense at all. Honestly, like, these people are as stupid as turkeys who legitimately will look up and watch the rain with their mouths open until they drown themselves.
Sorry for the rant. I wish Riot would ban people for having no brains at all. Like the 200 ELO (at least played like) players I was playing with tonight. -____-
I could teach my sister's dog to press 1 (if the ward is in the 1 slot) and click with her paw faster than I could have taught those guys to do it....
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On December 30 2010 14:51 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 13:50 UniversalSnip wrote:
I think this game could afford to have a ton of things to be more like dota tbh (eg move the summoners to items, add out there items like lothars, dota mapstyle which is a lot better than SR, etc). The game is different enough that there's no need to avoid things just for the sake of being different.
I'm not a huge dota fan, it's just the lack of things dota did perfectly sometimes puzzles me. Lothar's is balanced within the framework of DotA where the general power level of things is just much higher. The shining example of this is Black King Bar, which, while very good in DotA, wouldn't last a day in LoL without a hotfix. Riot sort of shot themselves in the foot by scaling back the power level of everything so far because it limits the design space with which they can work--since a lot of unique mechanics are going to be high-power by nature.
yeah, riot really fucked themselves by making every champ able to carry thanks to no orb effects, ap scaling, etc etc.
if riot added some more stealth champs they could justify a stealth item eventually, but adding more stealth champs will just get sooo much QQ from pubs. seriously i was stomping with eve before her buffs, i even wrote a guide for her, she's always been a hero dedicated to punishing people who make bad decisions... even twitch is a 10x better champ right now because of his ability to crush all things late-game. late-game eve doesn't even do shit
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A teamfight when we're up 20 kills and can win the game right after? HOLD ON GUYS just getting blue!
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On December 30 2010 14:58 seppolevne wrote:
A teamfight when we're up 20 kills and can win the game right after? HOLD ON GUYS just getting blue!
Nah at that point in the game we literally just got dragon. I told them "I'm getting blue real quick then we'll push for the win" as I was low on mana and a new creep wave was coming. I got blue real quick and for no reason they already engaged, before the creepwave was even by the opponents tower and I was running to them. Instead of waiting 10 seconds for me to get there they engaged for no reason at the opponents tower with no creeps. That cost us the fight because they couldn't listen.
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I started toying around with picking up a hextech revolver on vlad after shield, I must say the results can be extra hilarious when you get MORE health from q and e basically refunds itself if you hit minions. And a WotA never hurt anyone.
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WotA rush on vlad is pretty legit, I do it on Cho sometimes too.
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On December 30 2010 15:52 Ahab wrote:
I started toying around with picking up a hextech revolver on vlad after shield, I must say the results can be extra hilarious when you get MORE health from q and e basically refunds itself if you hit minions. And a WotA never hurt anyone.
yeah it's a much better midrange ap item than guise imo. I usually don't upgrade it
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On December 30 2010 16:19 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2010 15:52 Ahab wrote:
I started toying around with picking up a hextech revolver on vlad after shield, I must say the results can be extra hilarious when you get MORE health from q and e basically refunds itself if you hit minions. And a WotA never hurt anyone. yeah it's a much better midrange ap item than guise imo. I usually don't upgrade it
I don't usually upgrade it unless I finish rylai's and zring and the game is still going.
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i think wota rush is pretty bad. 20% spellvamp isn't THAT good, especially when you compare the AP:cost of wota v NLR... it's like 500 gold more for 10 ap less. leave your revolver at revolver unless you have a significant amount of lategame magic damage
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On December 30 2010 16:44 gtrsrs wrote:
i think wota rush is pretty bad. 20% spellvamp isn't THAT good, especially when you compare the AP:cost of wota v NLR... it's like 500 gold more for 10 ap less. leave your revolver at revolver unless you have a significant amount of lategame magic damage
I wouldn't rush it, build would be like dshield, revolver, boots1, nlr (if farm allows, otherwise parts of rylai's), boots2, rylai's, zring. Obviously it changes based on the game but its been a pretty successful guideline for the time I've been trying it out. Later on I might sell the revolver if I need a void staff or something.
Oldschool redtooth disclaimer: I'm prolly a baddie (only 50/50 w/l), would have to play ranked to find out and I don't care that much.
Also lol I posted on my friends comp without checking who was signed in and got him his first 2 posts on a game he doesn't really play.
Edit: Not to say I haven't tried rushing it, but I find if I finish it, it puts off the nlr just long enough that laning is usually over and it's a bit harder to get that huge chunk of change together. I also feel like the nlr helps keep his damage pretty relevant at the start of teamfights.
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Bleh, building Vlad without hog+sorcs :/
Regarding eve: she is very powerful in right hands but i hope people stop with this "IMBA IMBA IMBA". Nothing HUGE changed about her, if i asked someone 2-3 months ago "why is eve bad?" they'd answer:
- you just need oracles and she's dead
- she has nothing to bring for her team in teamfights other than stun.
If you ask someone nowadays "why is eve overpowered?" they'd answer:
- you need oracles to have a chance vs her
- she has a stun!
My point is: eve was never up, she wasn't fully discovered. People recently discovered viable way of playing eve and everyone is shocked because they are not used to playing vs "useful" eve - so they overrate her power. Same thing happened ~5-6 months ago to mummy - nobody know how to vs mummy, now you barely see mumu even though he wasn't changed THAT much. And in comparison rammus wasn't changed that much as well but people just discovered that he actually is awesome champ - so the relationship between mummy and rammus almost didn't change in terms of power, but suddenly they switched places in "power tier".
Stop overreacting to changes, sooner or later everyone will adapt. Just look at SC1 - sair/reaver, Flash build (s), discovering muta stacking. These were HUGE changes to "metagame" and everyone thought they were OP starts. But sooner or later someone discovered counter and people adapted too well - Blizzard didn't need to nerf corsairs/mutas.
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On December 30 2010 18:27 Kaniol wrote:
Bleh, building Vlad without hog+sorcs :/
Regarding eve: she is very powerful in right hands but i hope people stop with this "IMBA IMBA IMBA". Nothing HUGE changed about her, if i asked someone 2-3 months ago "why is eve bad?" they'd answer:
- you just need oracles and she's dead
- she has nothing to bring for her team in teamfights other than stun.
If you ask someone nowadays "why is eve overpowered?" they'd answer:
- you need oracles to have a chance vs her
- she has a stun!
My point is: eve was never up, she wasn't fully discovered. People recently discovered viable way of playing eve and everyone is shocked because they are not used to playing vs "useful" eve - so they overrate her power. Same thing happened ~5-6 months ago to mummy - nobody know how to vs mummy, now you barely see mumu even though he wasn't changed THAT much. And in comparison rammus wasn't changed that much as well but people just discovered that he actually is awesome champ - so the relationship between mummy and rammus almost didn't change in terms of power, but suddenly they switched places in "power tier".
Stop overreacting to changes, sooner or later everyone will adapt. Just look at SC1 - sair/reaver, Flash build (s), discovering muta stacking. These were HUGE changes to "metagame" and everyone thought they were OP starts. But sooner or later someone discovered counter and people adapted too well - Blizzard didn't need to nerf corsairs/mutas.
I see this kind of people in the SC2 forum all the time too. 2 to 3 months ago she didn't get all these huge buffs, which includes the jungle cs thing. Worse than people crying about balance, is people who cry about the people who cry about balance and don't research their facts.
For example, if malazar suddenly became popular, we are going to have idiots saying he was never up. Fact is, he was up at release.
Of course what you said is true, that people "discover champs", but most of the time it is a combination of both buffs and metagame. The metagame just takes some time to catch up to the buffs and nerfs.
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On December 30 2010 14:53 BlackPaladin wrote:
Jesus I just played with the most retarded group ever. I was veigar....I was so farmed from my q, I had 700 AP with just zyhonyas, abyssal, rylais, and blue elixer....
I told them THREE times not to engage.
First time, I say I'm getting blue real quick, don't engage. They engage, 4v5 and die. I clean up 3 or so and get away after the fact, but that's all I could do.
Second time they all bought 1 ward as I told them to do so, just in case they are dumb enough to engage 4v5 again at least they can throw a ward down and I can tele to it. It wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted them to stick near me as I told them to do. But they wouldn't listen, so at least that was a backup plan. But then......they engage.....again. I yell ward ward ward and NO ONE PUTS THEIR WARD DOWN. Takes 1 second, but no. Soooo, 4v5 lost again. They push our base. I kill 3 at our tower but die, and they push 2 of our inhibs. We get baron, we push a few of their towers down. We're still up TWENTY team kills at this point because all I did all laning phase was gank to try to carry these baddies, even though never did a single one listen to me and push their towers once we killed them......
So now all 4 of them had a ward on them by my orders once again. I'm defending our base that's getting pushed in by super minions otherwise we autolose. I tell them to defend. Instead, they are, for no reason at all, by baron, that won't respawn for another 2 mins anyway. I ping, yell, and scream for them to get back and defend. They. Don't. Fucking. Listen. They instead engage AGAIN 4v5 against the other team. I yell and ping to ward as I ghost to them. Still no ward at all. Not fucking one is put down but all 4 have it in their inventory. I get there only to be able to kill 3 once more but die to the remaining 2. So then they push us for the win.
Moral of the story. I am terrible at this game, yes, who should have just warded the entire map myself, as my team wouldn't do it. But wow others have no common sense at all. Honestly, like, these people are as stupid as turkeys who legitimately will look up and watch the rain with their mouths open until they drown themselves.
Sorry for the rant. I wish Riot would ban people for having no brains at all. Like the 200 ELO (at least played like) players I was playing with tonight. -____-
I could teach my sister's dog to press 1 (if the ward is in the 1 slot) and click with her paw faster than I could have taught those guys to do it....
I dunno, if I was in that team and was an average LoL player I'd be raging hard at the idiot veigar who keeps farming instead of coming to teamfights. Sometimes its not possible to not engage because you're poking at each other and someone gets stuns or w/e. In any case, farming time is a time when teammates are out pushing lanes or someone is dead and the other team is doing the same and recoverying etc, when your whole team is up you MUST be there to teamfight, just saying don't engage I'm getting blue is using the whole team's time for your 1 blue buff which you probably don't need to win the teamfight but that might work in an arranged team but in solo queue is pretty stupid as people probably won't pay attention and either won't notice you're at blue or else accidentally get hit by an initiator or something.
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If the carry says that you should stay back because he is getting blue buff and then he will come and push, then you should just fall back to your tower and stay there until he is back. Especially if the enemy team has a strong initiator. You don't keep poking and risk getting caught. Butbutbut my spells are off cooldown!!! Whatever. Go back.
Using the whole team's time, lol. Are people really so impatient that they can't idle for 10 seconds?
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Hmm... it really depends on the situation.
If the team is at your inhib tower, the you obv. need the carry there.
Also, I don't think that having blue really helps the carry anyways in a teamfight (unless your kass or some caster)
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On December 30 2010 22:25 Abenson wrote:
Hmm... it really depends on the situation.
If the team is at your inhib tower, the you obv. need the carry there.
Also, I don't think that having blue really helps the carry anyways in a teamfight (unless your kass or some caster)
They were about to push the enemy, not being pushed by the enemy. And if your carry (someone who has actually been carrying the team) wants blue, then let him get the blue. He probably knows best.
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FINALLY I pulled off a game as eve where I didn't feed (And also a game where I didn't feed AT ALL!!!
![[image loading]](http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/8014/evesuccess.png)
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why would u build br then build rylais into what looks like a lichbane
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EPT
