On January 21 2015 10:39 FreeZEternal wrote: Ok, I am seriously thinking about getting Illidan. Is it really that hard to play with him?
Illidan is alright but requires some good teamwork and judgement. He has great chase but terrible escapes and in this metagame with a lot of burst he can die very quickly. You need a) the team to really go together because if you dive just a bit too early you are dead before you do much and b) you usually need some of help against burst. Uther and tassadar preferrably but at least one of the two i'd say. He was a situational late pick I'd say but sort of replaced by Thrall who does the same thing but a little better.
On January 21 2015 13:03 [SXG]Phantom wrote: Dota 2 players are the ones who complain more about it. They got their arguments, and dota 2 one would say gives more for less, however blizzard won't change it. Maybe they will adjust the prices a little, but giving all for free? Its not going to happen. Dota 2 had to do it, and manages to do it because of very particular reasons that are imposible or prety difficult for Blizzard to recreate.
Would i prefer the dota 2 system, yeah, but sincerily, im not agaisn't this model either, it takes time but gives a sense of progression and there are tons of heroes iim not interested in playing really.
Smite sells ALL their current and future heroes for ~20 Euros (but the "free" Pointgain seems not spectacular too) and i'm more than fine with that. Blizzard is milking this cow WAY more than anyone else. The Prices are just totally ridiculous and thats just a straight up fact.
What particular reason for "everything free" in Dota are you talking about? That they kinda had to recreate Dota 1 and give all the starter heroes out free is pretty clear BUT what exactly stopped them from still not losing money due to this... Or selling heroes that got in after release? Probably Magic or some weird shit... Or probably they are just not as moneyhungry as Blizzard (which doesn't mean they aren't out for Money too).
The only problem I see with the Founder's Pack is that the bundle itself is rather shitty. If they put the Nexus Bundle in the Pack nobody would complain.
On January 21 2015 13:03 [SXG]Phantom wrote: Dota 2 players are the ones who complain more about it. They got their arguments, and dota 2 one would say gives more for less, however blizzard won't change it. Maybe they will adjust the prices a little, but giving all for free? Its not going to happen. Dota 2 had to do it, and manages to do it because of very particular reasons that are imposible or prety difficult for Blizzard to recreate.
Would i prefer the dota 2 system, yeah, but sincerily, im not agaisn't this model either, it takes time but gives a sense of progression and there are tons of heroes iim not interested in playing really.
Smite sells ALL their current and future heroes for ~20 Euros (but the "free" Pointgain seems not spectacular too) and i'm more than fine with that. Blizzard is milking this cow WAY more than anyone else. The Prices are just totally ridiculous and thats just a straight up fact.
What particular reason for "everything free" in Dota are you talking about? That they kinda had to recreate Dota 1 and give all the starter heroes out free is pretty clear BUT what exactly stopped them from still not losing money due to this... Or selling heroes that got in after release? Probably Magic or some weird shit... Or probably they are just not as moneyhungry as Blizzard (which doesn't mean they aren't out for Money too).
I would argue that the way Dota is designed and balanced (heroes have unique, specific uses), you can't lock characters behind a paywall because you're basically saying "yeah you autolose because you don't have any answers to x"
Which is also a reason why league champ design is pretty homogenised
35€ for beta? really questionable business model? region lock?
yeeaahhh noooo.
so blizzard jumped on the early access train and managed to outdouche LoL. ill stay with dota and smite thx.
Smite sells ALL their current and future heroes for ~20 Euros (but the "free" Pointgain seems not spectacular too) and i'm more than fine with that.
smites model is pretty much the fairest way possible outside ofc dotas "HERE PLAY OUR GAME HAVE FUN" approach. sell skins and funstuff , grind or buy gods or buy all gods forever for a fair price.
Green Jesus explained in a short video. Found this in reddit.
Yep. That looks about right. If you can't CC and burn Thrall down, you don't have a prayer.
Despite this i'm more and more thinking he's fairly bad the more I play with and against him. If he gets to connect and do his thing past lvl 16 he is a god and can take on infinite heroes if they trickle in 1 by 1 and even do some straight up 1v2s. In a teamfight however when the other team knows to cc him he dies incredibly quick though and has little to do about it. The windfury build is the cause for all this apparent brokenness but it puts all the eggs in one basket so to say. A brightwing that just pays attention and polymorphs the moment they see windfury popped will make you cry. Your ability is effectively countered and no heal or quick cooldown reduction, you actually have to wait to repop it and are super vulnerable in the process. Other builds may be more varied and actually better but you won't get to do this sometimes rediculous stuff. Maybe he can be broken by having the proper team around him though. For example I think he matches up quite well with uther. The heal and shield prevents thrall from being bursted too easily and cleanse is huge for countering cc when windfury is popped. The stuns finally are great as thrall can just recoup so much life and deal so much damage during it.
I do expect some nerf coming up though because this type of hero tends to stomp in lower level games and get's a lof of flak. video's like these for example are more a sign of 4 players idiotically trickling into thrall then the thrall actually being broken. Just like nova though it's likely such a hero will be altered and nerfed to unplayable status.
If they feel they must change him I hope they just remove one talent, the double trait on windfury one. Without it this rediculous healing is gone. Although I'm not even sure you want that talent all the time now, spellshield is also nice sometimes on a hero like this.
So I bought into the founder's pack last night because I've been wanting to give this a try for a while. Only had an hour or two to get a couple of matches in, but I like what I see so far. After over 2,000 hours in Dota (which is not a lot compared to some people I know), I am definitely a little burned out and enticed by the shorter match length. Anyway, a couple of questions:
1) What are your guys' purchase strategies? Coming from dota and not lol, I'm not used to having to buy heroes using real money or otherwise. We'll see how sucked in I get, but right now I don't plan (and haven't budgeted for) spending any additional cash on this game. Do you guys just go for the heroes on sale whenever you get enough gold? That seems like the most efficient way to get everything eventually, but new heroes like Thrall are ridiculously expensive. How soon does the price come down usually?
2) Anyone want to group up? I'm ZasZ314#1317. If I'm on during the week it will be at night, MST.
Like I said, I had a lot of fun with the little bit of time I gave to it last night, but I was a little annoyed at all of the level walls. No dailies until 6, no ranked until 30, etc. etc. I understand the reasoning for them, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I also noticed that in the couple of MM games I played, everyone was pretty nice to each other. Not a great sample size, but is the community any better to one another than Dota or LoL?
On January 22 2015 00:51 ZasZ. wrote: So I bought into the founder's pack last night because I've been wanting to give this a try for a while. Only had an hour or two to get a couple of matches in, but I like what I see so far. After over 2,000 hours in Dota (which is not a lot compared to some people I know), I am definitely a little burned out and enticed by the shorter match length. Anyway, a couple of questions:
1) What are your guys' purchase strategies? Coming from dota and not lol, I'm not used to having to buy heroes using real money or otherwise. We'll see how sucked in I get, but right now I don't plan (and haven't budgeted for) spending any additional cash on this game. Do you guys just go for the heroes on sale whenever you get enough gold? That seems like the most efficient way to get everything eventually, but new heroes like Thrall are ridiculously expensive. How soon does the price come down usually?
2) Anyone want to group up? I'm ZasZ314#1317. If I'm on during the week it will be at night, MST.
Like I said, I had a lot of fun with the little bit of time I gave to it last night, but I was a little annoyed at all of the level walls. No dailies until 6, no ranked until 30, etc. etc. I understand the reasoning for them, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I also noticed that in the couple of MM games I played, everyone was pretty nice to each other. Not a great sample size, but is the community any better to one another than Dota or LoL?
I did the same last night, and I come from LoL beta-end of 2013, Dota 2 Beginning 2012-present, and Smite the last six months. 1) I don't mind paying for things in bundles, used to it from LoL days. If they aren't in the bundle, I'd use gold. 13.11 for a hero and a skin isn't too bad as long as it's not every week, depending on your living situation and job.
On January 21 2015 12:05 sacrilegious wrote: ^ So then why don't they do it from the start instead of going through all this dumb selected alpha access invites to streamers, big names, and random people? Now suddenly they feel like selling access because they can and know there are people who will pay $ to them... strictly based on reputation
I can't imagine if a similar game was handled this same way by another company not named Blizzard or some Indie company that they would get anyone biting... fans will bend head over heel no matter what Blizz does now
Alpha wasn't just a name, the game was actually being tested on a technical basis. AFAIK it didn't even receive a proper server update until a month ago to prepare for the estimated player count beta would bring.
When Hearthstone was in closed beta I actually ended up with 2 keys and ebayed one for $200. With HotS Blizzard tried to avoid this by changing it from keys that were transferable to directly flagging accounts.
Instead, people started making fake accounts and opting in to beta (maybe bot some Hearthstone so the account looks active or what not). Then they just sold those accounts for hundreds of dollars.
Founder's Pack undercuts all those people without actually putting the game in open beta, which I'm sure they aren't ready for yet (*cough* reconnect issue *cough*). Since New Year's, I've been experiencing a ton of lag getting into the game and rarely play a match without someone dropping for a period of time. I'd say they aren't ready to let everyone who wants to play, play yet.
Edit: @ZasZ, I sent you a friend request, just a warning, I'm not very good at the game =p
On January 22 2015 00:51 ZasZ. wrote: So I bought into the founder's pack last night because I've been wanting to give this a try for a while. Only had an hour or two to get a couple of matches in, but I like what I see so far. After over 2,000 hours in Dota (which is not a lot compared to some people I know), I am definitely a little burned out and enticed by the shorter match length. Anyway, a couple of questions:
1) What are your guys' purchase strategies? Coming from dota and not lol, I'm not used to having to buy heroes using real money or otherwise. We'll see how sucked in I get, but right now I don't plan (and haven't budgeted for) spending any additional cash on this game. Do you guys just go for the heroes on sale whenever you get enough gold? That seems like the most efficient way to get everything eventually, but new heroes like Thrall are ridiculously expensive. How soon does the price come down usually?
2) Anyone want to group up? I'm ZasZ314#1317. If I'm on during the week it will be at night, MST.
Like I said, I had a lot of fun with the little bit of time I gave to it last night, but I was a little annoyed at all of the level walls. No dailies until 6, no ranked until 30, etc. etc. I understand the reasoning for them, but it doesn't make it any less annoying.
I also noticed that in the couple of MM games I played, everyone was pretty nice to each other. Not a great sample size, but is the community any better to one another than Dota or LoL?
I did the same last night, and I come from LoL beta-end of 2013, Dota 2 Beginning 2012-present, and Smite the last six months. 1) I don't mind paying for things in bundles, used to it from LoL days. If they aren't in the bundle, I'd use gold. 13.11 for a hero and a skin isn't too bad as long as it's not every week, depending on your living situation and job.
Edit: Deleted part two: 2) Mario#1988. I'm on here or there, obviously still learning talent system and maps, which isn't as difficult as I thought, thankfully.
I'll add you guys when I get home later today. I also thought the hardest part would be learning different maps since that isn't a thing in dota but they do a good job summarizing the objectives up front and they are simple enough to get a grasp of quickly. I do like that it is clearly objective focused. So is dota, but people will still want to farm heroes and creeps rather than hit buildings, and Heroes is stressing that kills are not be-all-end-all right out of the gate, which is much appreciated.
I make good money, but between grad school, owning a house for the first time, and planning a wedding, every dollar is currently allocated and if I have money to spend on games, I'd rather pick up a new game (so many good AAA titles coming out this year) than spend it in one I already have. That may change if I get sucked into Heroes like I did with dota and only play that 100 percent of the time anyways, but we'll see.
Well the last of my diablo real auction house money has been spent on the founders pack. I honestly think it is worth buying if you don't have beta access and plan on playing this game. Much better to do all this gated level up shit in beta instead of when the game goes live
hm I don't mind that Blizzard grabs money instead of 200 bnet account ebay guy. But it was the same with the rmah in d3. Tons of bad PR. For only trying to boot out ebay and get the money to the developer. Never understood why that was a bad thing.
I'll guess they test how much money they get that way and will continue that system if it gets enough money. And I doubt they won't get tons of money.
Is it bad PR though? Lots of people happily buying the Founders Pack. I didn't play yesterday but when I logged in today people complaining about all the newbs playing Diablo and such.
Edit: this is just the trend in gaming now. Ignoring Dota 2 you still have Kickstarter, Steam Early access, pre-orders for Beta, and for a Blizzard related example: WoW annual pass for beta access.
I personally don't like it, but I don't have to pay and unlike other people I'm totally fine waiting to play a game when it's available just like I did as a kid.
EPT
