EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 264
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wongfeihung
United States763 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 16 2015 09:14 Hildegard wrote: Khaldor made two interesting interviews with Fnatic players (can't recall their names). They said Muradin is top tier, definitely on the same tier as Stitches and maybe better than Arthas. The regen was important early game and allowed for some tower pushes but that's about it. The dwarf toss buff makes more than up for it and he has better lvl20 options than Arthas. Regarding healers they said Lili was actually nerfed with the latest patch and list Brightwing > Uther, Rehgar is potentially more played than before and Malfurion as Nazeebo counter (healing through the ultimate). One of them also said that Gazlowe might be viable and super strong on lvl20. Yeah, Brightwing is probably the strongest support right now simply due to her global presence. However, Uther is still a beast. The way I see it, Uther is who you want for melee heavy compositions and BW is the hero of choice for ranged comps. The problem is that BW's ult is really hard for melee comps to overcome. As for Muradin, the dwarf toss buff makes him incredibly difficult to kill now. He also is very good at initiating fights with it. And yeah, I've been saying that Gazlowe is really strong in the right hands for a while. The problem is that it's really hard to land his wombo combo, but the Gazlowe's that are good at it are incredibly strong teammates to have. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
His kit is pretty well rounded though I would prefer chain lightning prioritize hitting heroes over minions. Between it and feral spirit, he has enough ranged damage to hold against ranged lane bullies like Zagara or Valla and poke at an enemy team in an engagement. This is decidedly different from a lot of other melee heroes. He's a bit weak to stealth heroes because while chain lightning can chain to a cloaked target (which is kind of bull shit), it's not reliable enough. Feral spirits is too narrow a skill shot to consistently decloak a juking stealther and is too important a skill to just throw out there. A lot of other assassins have much better options at counter play vs. stealth. But yea, onto the main point... Windfury and the overall synergy of the build. At level 20, with the double passive gain on a triple strike windfury and battle momentum, a landed WF combo deals like ~1.6k damage, heals you for ~1.6k hp, and reduces your CDs by 2.5 seconds. You can CL, Sundering, FS, WF combo, Envenom and then CL again and kill basically anything short of a Diablo loaded on spirits if you aren't CC'd. But, it actually isn't a good idea to use Sundering just as a stun / damage dealer / set-up since it has such a huge AoE that it swings team fights with its utility as an interrupt. Valla can't go strafe. Nazeebo can't be picked. Anything that is channeled or has a slightly longer interrupt window is fodder for Sundering. It's basically Divine Storm in a huge line that also displaces. It's totally ridiculous. It's even more ridiculous that it doesn't need the level 20 boost so you can get blink instead and gain additional escape / chase. Thrall is currently absolutely ridiculous. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
Picking for a team comp you can't play isn't a good strategy in my opinion. I'd rather have a Raynor who knows what he is doing than Tychus because Tychus op. Bad players don't become good by picking god tier heroes. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
But that's about the only hole in his game. | ||
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Brian333
657 Posts
People might put too much weight in tier lists but Arthas / Stitches and Diablo / ETC are not closely matched. Sure, you don't want a first time Tychus player just picking him because he's good. But, I'd much rather have a moderately skilled Tychus player than a skilled Raynor player. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
I think Falstad is pretty good, but at low elos people are not good enough to take advantage of his take flight. I just had a Valla do less hero dmg than Lili. She didn't have much higher siege damage too. It was a first pick Valla, and not someone forced into the role. I don't even know how that happens. Surely there must be a reality check for these people. People wouldn't gravitate to assassins so much if it wasn't for the presence of these completely inept failures. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
So I took my Zerg ladies out for a spin. Kerrigan feels weird. Her whole leap/stun/pull thing, plus and ult that makes her able to do damage while moving fast, seems to make her feel very win-more. When the team is ahead, I'm crushing, getting lots of kills, doing a huge amount of damage, staying alive, etc. She does benefit a ton from healers as well, as that role seems to really suffer in pubs. Zagara on the other hand might be my new favorite hero. I'm usually top of both damage charts, and I distinctly feel useful for pushing, teamfights, and, more than anything, holding objectives. Again, maybe this is different as people get better; there are certainly a lot of ways to play around Zagara and maybe I'm just not seeing them too much. Stealth is pretty consistently a problem for me though, it's so easy to not see that shimmer and then be super dead. | ||
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Eliezar
United States481 Posts
On January 16 2015 13:40 cascades wrote: The truth. Heroes in this game are currently very far from balanced. Warriors are better off since there's like 5 closely matched options. I think Falstad is pretty good, but at low elos people are not good enough to take advantage of his take flight. I just had a Valla do less hero dmg than Lili. She didn't have much higher siege damage too. It was a first pick Valla, and not someone forced into the role. I don't even know how that happens. Surely there must be a reality check for these people. People wouldn't gravitate to assassins so much if it wasn't for the presence of these completely inept failures. I have noticed something about my playstyle that lends itself to this. Perhaps I am too poky. I had a game where I was Tychus and had the 4th most hero damage on my team...but went 25 kills (tops on my team) and 0 deaths...and my team won. The game lasted until around level 23 for each team and every player on my team had at least 7 deaths...but...why do I have the most kills, the least deaths, the fourth most hero damage done...Chen did about 20k more hero damage than I did even. I don't know...maybe I play too safe. I have the same thing almost every game with Valla or Tychus, very few deaths, most kills on my team, but not the most hero damage.... | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Lili is also not as good, in part because of some undocumented changes http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/forum/topic/15700316110#1. Basically her heal has less range and the serpent probably got worse as a base skill, although it can be talented better. Only possible viability i guess would be on her countering thrall's windfury build to some extent. Muradin i still dont like as much now, early on I find him to stink now because he actually just get's low on health and takes too long too recoup it and he can do basically nothing if he can't go in the lane. For ganking he starts off poorly too. So I'm having a difficult time doing something useful with him for the first 10 levels, any lane bully like valla just damages him without getting hit and his trait only activates if he isn't hit for a few seconds so he actually has to go too far back oftne now. Could be wrong but I don't see him being that great now. Abathur also got nerfed quite a bit actually through some undocumented changes, apparently the locusts are far weaker now. As for falstad, curious what his build will be. You can just take the old build sort of: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/falstad#hcsj Or take a new more basic attack focussed: http://www.heroesfire.com/hots/talent-calculator/falstad#hByZ I guess the old build still stays the best, but in that case he loses quite a bit. The basic attack build is also better than I thought but does require him to get to do some basic attacks. The secret weapon in combination with longer hammer range let's him do 3 buffed attacks usually though which is quite neat. With vampiric he get's decent self heal then especially as fury of the storm get's added in later. Fury of the storm is also a more reliable way to proc hammer time, against some compositions you can more reliably get hammer + stun, hammer hits again on way back, stun again. With some luck perhaps even 2 heroes at the same time with fury of the storm. It's all dependant on him getting to attack more though so I still think the gathering power based build wins out but it's worth trying out and perhaps a good option if you want a bit of self healing. | ||
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Swisslink
2954 Posts
I really like what they're doing with the maps. The map differs quite a lot from the rest, imo. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 16 2015 17:31 Eliezar wrote: I have noticed something about my playstyle that lends itself to this. Perhaps I am too poky. I had a game where I was Tychus and had the 4th most hero damage on my team...but went 25 kills (tops on my team) and 0 deaths...and my team won. The game lasted until around level 23 for each team and every player on my team had at least 7 deaths...but...why do I have the most kills, the least deaths, the fourth most hero damage done...Chen did about 20k more hero damage than I did even. I don't know...maybe I play too safe. I have the same thing almost every game with Valla or Tychus, very few deaths, most kills on my team, but not the most hero damage.... You shouldn't put much weight into any of the scoreboard (namely because of bugs), but also because the statistics provided are just a number. If you want to focus in on some of the stats I would suggest paying attention to Deaths and XP Contribution. If you're not dying because your XP contribution is pitiful then you are playing too safe, but if you're getting that many kills then this isn't going to be the case. Be wary of people who just split push. They may have good xp contribution and no deaths with a ton of siege damage, but that could have been at the detriment of your team's objective. That Zagara who split pushes during the tribute can be the right call, but it is game dependent. You can't just look at a number and say good/bad. Siege and Hero damage are dumb stats because doing damage doesn't matter if the hero doesn't die. Stitches is going to do a ton of hero damage because of his kit, but most of it is spread out so his potential as a hero is mostly in initiating. Valla often puts out good numbers with the multishot build, but again you're distributing damage in a way that doesn't kill people. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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Jetaap
France4814 Posts
Also this game is so confusing for me, every game feels like "oh we're losing, oh nevermind we're winning oh we have an advantage not really oh fine we lost" | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Also, yeah you get 30 gold, but most of your gold income comes from lvl (your account and lvling the heroes) and daily quest. | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
I know it's not the go to build but my Burning Rage + Holy Devotion build can be disgusting at times. If I do feel like I'm in a game where I'm just a support and can't man up and play with my Warrior style I do bend over and pick up Shrink Ray and maybe even Cleanse too instead. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 17 2015 03:41 [SXG]Phantom wrote: Yeah its confusing because its pretty similar to other games of the genere, but at the same time its pretty different. As you play more games you'll understand more and more the flow of the game. Also, yeah you get 30 gold, but most of your gold income comes from lvl (your account and lvling the heroes) and daily quest. You know, I just realized this is basically how Hearthstone does it too. You get almost no gold from just playing the game (10g / 3 wins) compared to questing (40-100g / quest). They just seem to have a philosophy that you mass game for fun, not for gold. | ||
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