EPTHeroes Large General Thread - Page 262
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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sacrilegious
Canada863 Posts
On January 16 2015 00:06 Kaniol wrote: So the game is in close beta, but did anyone get the invite so far? I've more or less given up on bothering with this game based on how they handled the alpha invites. I literally clicked the "I am interested" box 10 minutes after they announced this game at Blizzcon 2013, and hadn't seen anything since, checking frequently for the first 6 months. All the while some of my friends who are really less frequently active on bnet literally got access months ago telling me they checked the same box only a few weeks before getting invited. It's really bad how they handled "random invites", in that if they're going to do that then they should have not selectively invited the streamers and whoever they chose just to advertise their game and sell their products, otherwise make it completely closed off to everyone except select testers until 2 days ago. Oh yea and the stories I've read about solo queue'ing in this game, is a really big turn off... so all and all I don't see it a big loss of not playing this game, but I'm sure other people who've played this game will differ | ||
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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TMG26
Portugal2017 Posts
On January 15 2015 12:26 Eliezar wrote: I guess I'll never understand complaining about something that is free. Because people want to make things better, most of the time to themselves , but sometimes it's also for the community. There are many Heroes and Blizzard fans out there that just want the game to succeed. And by succeed it means getting acknowledge as a great game and getting popularity equivalent or higher than current top games. So ofc people ask if this business model is good. Dota is out there and is actually free. In Smite you can actually buy every God for a normal game price. PoE is also free. People see those example and wonder why blizzard went with this model, specially went there are studies that show that Dota make a tiny bit more money from every player. So, you get a business model that is not proved to be the best, and it's actually worse for the players (I don't think that there is really that huge amount of people that prefer to grind heroes than have the freedom of choice to play with whatever they feel like playing). People actually want heroes to succeed. And they don't think this is the best model for it, so they complain. | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
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snailz
Croatia900 Posts
i think that TMG26 is right on the mark with his analysis; i cant imagine i would ever care if a moba (genre i usually dont respect much) is successful or not unless it had my favorite characters in it... because i cant help that im a sucker for blizzards universes, i tolerate shit that would turn me off from any other game. this will not be the same with the rest of the non-hardcore fans, especially ones who are already involved in other, perhaps even superior, games of the same genre. and Heroes will eventually fail to achieve, what is honestly theirs to take.. then all of us will be sad because we didnt speak up sooner  in conclusion, just because ppl like myself are diehard fans of blizzverses, we dont have to swallow something we perceive as bad, especially now when changes are still possible (beta). because when we turn the other cheek, companies tend to continue to make bad products and make money off of their brands alone (total war series comes to mind right away), because they can, so why wouldnt they. it is clear then that instead of arguing how irritating nova is, discussing and/or criticizing the game while big changes are still possible, is the way to go. someone brought up how you can buy all heroes in smite for like 40€, others brought up 150€ for like 50% of all heroes in Hots, which are great examples... anyways, i've said earlier im running out of ideas how to pitch this game to the audience it was supposedly designed for (casuals). only afterwards did i realize just how broken its model then must be. with wow, starcraft and diablo they don't really have competition, so its okay to cut corners (2 years for chat channels lol), but they will get rekt in moba market with this kind of approach... if its not lazy, im sure there is another negative word for it | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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kaztah
Norway1221 Posts
I bought zeratul and illidan first, then I wanted nazeebo and abathur. Now what the hell do I do besides play a year? Fuck me for liking the expensive heroes right? Not my fault the only heroes with really interesting mechanics just happends to be the most expensive ones. The fact that people say we should be happy because it's free is so damn stupid. I guess I should just play flash browser games instead, because they're even more free. Most of them even give you the full content. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 16 2015 02:28 Tenks wrote: I play the game because it is fun not because of fanboy and fanservice reasons. I am also not under any delusions Blizzard is not trying to make money off this game. If you want a reasonable gold gain cough up the $10 for a 30 day stimpack. This. And let's not pretend that HotS isn't going to be a great game. If nurtured properly, it probably will overtake LoL and DOTA, which are incredibly dated by comparison and simply aren't as engaging for more casual players. In fact, I'm very interested in how Riot and Valve respond by evolving their own games. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On January 16 2015 02:37 xDaunt wrote: This. And let's not pretend that HotS isn't going to be a great game. If nurtured properly, it probably will overtake LoL and DOTA, which are incredibly dated by comparison and simply aren't as engaging for more casual players. In fact, I'm very interested in how Riot and Valve respond by evolving their own games. I've had more than a few people see me playing Heroes on the BNet launcher and have asked my opinion on it. They all cite they want to get into MOBAs but are too daunted by the learning mountain that is DOTA or LoL. This game is going to find a very good audience once it opens up to more people. Having the Blizzard IP is just icing on the cake. | ||
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LaughingTulkas
United States1107 Posts
On January 16 2015 02:44 Tenks wrote: I've had more than a few people see me playing Heroes on the BNet launcher and have asked my opinion on it. They all cite they want to get into MOBAs but are too daunted by the learning mountain that is DOTA or LoL. This game is going to find a very good audience once it opens up to more people. Having the Blizzard IP is just icing on the cake. Person described reporting in! I used to have time to learn games like DotA, I played a ton of the original in WCIII RoC before DotA Allstars was even made. But then I graduated, got married, and now I have a 10 month old daughter. There's no way I can ever compete in those sorts of games, there's just too much that needs to be memorized: item builds, hero builds, opposing hero skills, team comps for almost infinite variations, and all this needs to be done playing dozens or more games that each take about an hour? It is beyond impractical for me. Whereas I can be pretty decent at HoTS, play on vent, and get a couple games in a couple nights a week after my baby goes to bed. There no other MOBA that can compete for my share of market at least, and I think it might be larger than the "hardcore" market. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On January 16 2015 02:37 xDaunt wrote: This. And let's not pretend that HotS isn't going to be a great game. If nurtured properly, it probably will overtake LoL and DOTA, which are incredibly dated by comparison and simply aren't as engaging for more casual players. In fact, I'm very interested in how Riot and Valve respond by evolving their own games. doubt HOTS can compete with LoL, maybe pull some casuals away from DOTA2 but that's about it. Nothing can compete against LoL, not DOTA2, not all the other MOBA's, and certainly not the new kid on the block HOTS, especially when you take HOTS' shitty business model into consideration. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10705 Posts
On January 16 2015 02:37 xDaunt wrote: This. And let's not pretend that HotS isn't going to be a great game. If nurtured properly, it probably will overtake LoL and DOTA, which are incredibly dated by comparison and simply aren't as engaging for more casual players. In fact, I'm very interested in how Riot and Valve respond by evolving their own games. Funny... Most people i know just found Hots boring after like a Week. I myself just kinda forgot about it again. | ||
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sushiko
197 Posts
Look, free to play games generally suck unless you put money in. Money = faster progression to beat the game. In games like lol and hots, however, its about keeping you playing for years. I'm sorry you can't wait 1 month to buy a 10k hero, but at least you can buy it for 10$! Or spend 10$ to gain increased gold / game! Instant gratification can be a bitch, but it gets you to spend money. Fear of missing out is horrible, but again gets you to spend money. Hate it all you want, go complain on bnet forums or here, but this won't change because your desires won't change. I love dota, played over 2000 hours and uncounted hours of dota 1. Within those hours I've bought compendiums and skins and announcers and keys. The game is fucking fun and the in game purchases made it more fun. Having all the heroes didn't make it fun, it was gameplay. Even with my hours, I count on my dota buff 5 i played heroes, and 20-30 heroes with 10 games or less played. Hots gameplay is equally fun, the 500gold incentive already made me play all heroes at least 7 times, and I bought all of my heroes with gold after 4 months of alpha. Still have moe than half the roster to go, but the game is still fun, don't see myself playing most of the ones I haven't bought, and saving gold for new heroes. Thrall is a pass for me for now, let's see if another hero can win my gold. Just a rant for having to read the same rants about slow gold/bad business model | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On January 16 2015 03:33 ref4 wrote: doubt HOTS can compete with LoL, maybe pull some casuals away from DOTA2 but that's about it. Nothing can compete against LoL, not DOTA2, not all the other MOBA's, and certainly not the new kid on the block HOTS, especially when you take HOTS' shitty business model into consideration. Needing runes to be competitive is a million times worse than needing a level 4 hero to be competitive. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
On January 16 2015 04:03 Cheren wrote: Needing runes to be competitive is a million times worse than needing a level 4 hero to be competitive. seeing how gold gain is much lower in HOTS vs. whatever currency they used in LoL, it'll probably take the time you unlock 10 heroes in HOTS you'll unlock 5 champs in LoL + full runes, then you'll probably catch up with the unlocking of LoL champs and probably overtake that in HOTS, while having more champs to unlock by the time HOTS comes out of beta in like 20 years time or something. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On January 16 2015 03:56 sushiko wrote: Man this thread always turns into a rage cage whenever gold/f2p/money comes up... Look, free to play games generally suck unless you put money in. Money = faster progression to beat the game. In games like lol and hots, however, its about keeping you playing for years. I'm sorry you can't wait 1 month to buy a 10k hero, but at least you can buy it for 10$! Or spend 10$ to gain increased gold / game! Instant gratification can be a bitch, but it gets you to spend money. Fear of missing out is horrible, but again gets you to spend money. Hate it all you want, go complain on bnet forums or here, but this won't change because your desires won't change. I love dota, played over 2000 hours and uncounted hours of dota 1. Within those hours I've bought compendiums and skins and announcers and keys. The game is fucking fun and the in game purchases made it more fun. Having all the heroes didn't make it fun, it was gameplay. Even with my hours, I count on my dota buff 5 i played heroes, and 20-30 heroes with 10 games or less played. Hots gameplay is equally fun, the 500gold incentive already made me play all heroes at least 7 times, and I bought all of my heroes with gold after 4 months of alpha. Still have moe than half the roster to go, but the game is still fun, don't see myself playing most of the ones I haven't bought, and saving gold for new heroes. Thrall is a pass for me for now, let's see if another hero can win my gold. Just a rant for having to read the same rants about slow gold/bad business model This is why F2P as a model sucks, by design it's always going to make someone mad lol. After the sticker shock for HotS at least it has the Nexus bundle which is kind of like buying a game that comes with a ton of DLC... But the real reason this keeps coming up is because of the way they made Quick Match a second class play mode. Now this is partly psychological and IMO easy for them to fix. Quick match just needs a simple ranking system so people feel like they're accomplishing something. Wouldn't it have been better if the 1-50 ranking was for Quick Match and Hero League actually uses leagues ala SC2? People wouldn't feel like they were playing 30 levels of tutorial with a big gold requirement at the end if they could feel some progress in the meantime. Sure people would keep asking things like "I'm rank 10, am I ready for Hero League?" But doesn't that question feel better than "Why the hell can't I play Hero League unless I pay / play 2 months?" For everyone involved even! Unfortunately there's also a game design reason everyone wants out of Quick Match. Right now, Quick Match = deserter's jail. Is there a better way to make a game mode undesirable than by actually making playing it a penalty? Even for people who want to be there, they'll occasionally end up with people 'punished' with complete a quick match game. How is that good for anyone involved? The game just hit Beta and I hope that Blizzard at least changes the afk / deserter penalty so that Quick Match isn't polluted by people who don't want to be there. Now, I don't actually mind playing Quick Match until I'm ready for Heroes League because I'm one of those crazies who finds it fun just to play a game =p. But after thinking about all the debates about Hero League requirements I feel that these are the root causes of most complaints. | ||
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