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On January 16 2015 02:37 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2015 02:28 Tenks wrote:
I play the game because it is fun not because of fanboy and fanservice reasons. I am also not under any delusions Blizzard is not trying to make money off this game. If you want a reasonable gold gain cough up the $10 for a 30 day stimpack. This. And let's not pretend that HotS isn't going to be a great game. If nurtured properly, it probably will overtake LoL and DOTA, which are incredibly dated by comparison and simply aren't as engaging for more casual players. In fact, I'm very interested in how Riot and Valve respond by evolving their own games.
Let's not move this thread into pure sci-fi. From about 15 ppl that i know that play or played Dota 2 in the past maybe 5 tried it, 1 still plays it often (but he havent touched Dota 2 for like a year+), i still play it from time to time when i can't be arsed to actually focus too much or want a quick 25 mins match. Rest like watched a stream or played few games and reasoning for not wanting more is always same - horrible grind and shallow mechanics. It might be engaging for casual gamers(i doubt they will like the business model tho), but for those that have tons of Dota/LoL exp i doubt it.
Also Dota 2 dated compared to half arsed game made on sc2 engine plagued by tech difficulties, please.
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Mexico2170 Posts
The punishment of sending people to quick match is because there still isnt enough people to create a leaver ladder.
But actually, i think your idea of the hero league ranked being more like sc2, and then quick match ranking could be great...altough maybe thats what they are planning to do with team league?
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On January 16 2015 04:46 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
The punishment of sending people to quick match is because there still isnt enough people to create a leaver ladder.
But actually, i think your idea of the hero league ranked being more like sc2, and then quick match ranking could be great...altough maybe thats what they are planning to do with team league?
I hope so. I know they're still iterating on leaver's queue so I'm cautiously optimistic they'll realize what a terrible idea it is to dump them all into Quick Match.
I'm curious how Team League will work. I hope a lot of the current manipulation with Hero League goes away once Team League is out though.
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I think hero league is what people play to get ready for team league. Quick matches are just unrated matches to try stuff out and level against human players.
As far as money goes - Heroes (and Hearthstone) make the money needed for SC2. It's a bit ironic that Heroes will probably make way more money than SC2.
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With how flaky the reconnect system is at the moment I'm fine just dumping them into quick match. I'm sure right now they're just testing to make sure the leaver works correctly at flagging leavers and when the reconnect is better (ie: if you got flagged leaver 99% chance you left) they can have a different punishment.
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On January 16 2015 05:07 Hildegard wrote:
I think hero league is what people play to get ready for team league. Quick matches are just unrated matches to try stuff out and level against human players.
As far as money goes - Heroes (and Hearthstone) make the money needed for SC2. It's a bit ironic that Heroes will probably make way more money than SC2.
What's ironic about it?
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Mexico2170 Posts
BTW, it surprises me how little a lot of people know about the game.
Abathur on dragonshire?
They want a healer everygame, but i was already playing sup (tass), and then one said "but we need a healer" and i was like, no, we don't need a healer, we need a dps cause noone from thsi team has picked an assasin and we already got sup <.<
Also yeah, by judging all these thralls with skins and flying carpet, i don't think they will lower prices or anything.
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On January 16 2015 05:11 wongfeihung wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2015 05:07 Hildegard wrote:
I think hero league is what people play to get ready for team league. Quick matches are just unrated matches to try stuff out and level against human players.
As far as money goes - Heroes (and Hearthstone) make the money needed for SC2. It's a bit ironic that Heroes will probably make way more money than SC2. What's ironic about it?
ironic because all of Blizzard's effort in the past was pushing SC2 as the king of eSPort when in reality is not sustainable and stagnant and even regressing in growth between each expac
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On January 16 2015 02:13 snailz wrote:
can we just stop with these subjective first-hand approximations of how much gold you can earn in certain amount of time, when the math is out there and it's solid. and most ppl would probably agree it's also pretty bad, especially if you consider the audience Heroes were supposed to attract.
Sorry for voicing how I felt about it  I have a family, full-time job, I split my time between Hearthstone, LoL and this game and I'm lucky if I play video games for 5ish hours a week. I can't imagine someone playing this game more casually than myself in Alpha and I could play Ranked right now if I wanted lol. You praise the poster above me for his analysis but ignore this monster post on the previous page that doesn't really line up with what you're saying:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 15 2015 11:51 Brian333 wrote:
Why is this still being discussed.
Here are some basic numbers that people need to know before saying anything about gold prices.
You make ~360g per day on average from daily rewards alone. That's ~10700g a month.
You make ~25g per game assuming 50% winrate. On average, it takes ~3.6 games to complete a daily if you do not let them stack. That's ~107 games per month. That's an extra ~2675g from games.
It comes out to around ~13375 gold per month.
While heroes release at 15000g, that is a temporary price and drops to 10000g. Other heroes will decay in price over time down to a presumed minimum of 2000g. An example of this is Stitches and his recent price drop from the 10000g tier to the 7000g tier. Overall, you earn enough gold per month to stay ahead of Blizzard's current pace of releasing heroes. In other words, you will eventually own every hero.
There are currently 33 heroes. 31 of them have been in the hero rotation since the last alpha reset (Murky hasn't been in it yet, Thrall is new). That's 16500g from leveling heroes that you can earn. Level 5 is not hard to level to and it's in your best interest to un-talent-gate them and familiarize yourself with them anyways.
Finally, you get 6000g from account leveling.
That's 22500g that is "free" and that you will eventually make as long as you put in the effort.
As of now, hero league's requirement of 10 heroes is not hard to reach while fielding a respectable roster of heroes.
Arthas (7k) - arguably the best hero in the game and the best warrior in the game
Stitches (7k) - one of the best warriors
Muradin (2k) - solid warrior pick
Valla (2k) - one of the best assassins
Tychus (4k) - one of the best assassins
Illidan (4k) - solid melee assassin pick
Raynor (2k) - filler purchase but he's still a decent assassin
Tassadar (4k) - great utility damage dealer
Malfurion (2k) - generally regarded as the 3rd best support
Uther (7k) - generally regarded as the 1st / 2nd best support
That's 41k worth of gold to assemble a 10 man rotation that any pro player would say is a rock solid list of heroes. Assuming favorable free hero rotations, it's not unreasonable to assume you'll have that all within 2 months given that there is nothing else besides master skins to spend gold on at the moment. Is that really too long for a completely F2P player?
Sub out some of the weaker purchases for Nazeebo (10k) Brightwing (10k) / Zeratul (10k) / Tyrael (7k) / Falstad (7k) for your individual playstyle and you basically cannot have a better 10 man rotation (a 10 man rotation you will likely not play in its entirety, but whatever).
It's fine if you're frustrated and what we got wasn't what you expected. It's also fine if I think you're overreacting. /shrug
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On January 16 2015 05:15 [SXG]Phantom wrote:
BTW, it surprises me how little a lot of people know about the game.
Abathur on dragonshire?
They want a healer everygame, but i was already playing sup (tass), and then one said "but we need a healer" and i was like, no, we don't need a healer, we need a dps cause noone from thsi team has picked an assasin and we already got sup <.<
Also yeah, by judging all these thralls with skins and flying carpet, i don't think they will lower prices or anything.
Haha, this wasn't too surprising. Players generally think about the team composition in terms of roles, so healer support is always wanted. But they don't really think about hero viability/counter per map. There have been times when I first pick healer then the rest of the team pick heroes that are all squishy or not team fight oriented... Just a reminder that average players aren't thinking beyond what hero is fun to play.
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I prefer picking 5th on my team because I can fill all 3 major roles fairly well. Generally that means I'm on support. But I had a party last night where we picked 0 support (I was first pick Tychus) and they were ready to GG at 0:00. Supports are good but not completely mandatory especially if you're not playing at the tip top of competition.
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First ranked match. Dude in my team picks Sgt.Hammer on Haunted Mines when other team already had a Stitches. Next our Raynor proceeds to dive their gate and feeds first blood to start things out. Still won...
And I've always liked last picking too (in DotA), can make up for teams dumb picks.
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I feel like there needs to be a special memorial somewhere dedicated to shitty Thrall players. I just played with one who was 0-5 at one point with the lowest hero damage on the team. He even managed to lose a duel against ETC. I completely lost my shit when I saw that.
Again, we're talking about a hero whose logic chart is basically IF you have mana => Rape; IF no mana => get mana => Rape.
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On January 16 2015 06:53 xDaunt wrote:
I feel like there needs to be a special memorial somewhere dedicated to shitty Thrall players. I just played with one who was 0-5 at one point with the lowest hero damage on the team. He even managed to lose a duel against ETC. I completely lost my shit when I saw that.
Again, we're talking about a hero whose logic chart is basically IF you have mana => Rape; IF no mana => get mana => Rape.
Actually I've been looking into it and it seems the mana regen talent (every time passive procs) > Envenom is actually worth it in most situations. Trade an early kill or 2 for near infinite sustain.
Honestly, they need to do something about the triple hit on the end of Windfury talent and the fact that Windfury procs 3 fucking stacks of the passive. Both those abilities put him far over the top of where he should be.
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It seems like split pushing is always worse than just going for objectives. I think this is an intentional design element to promote teamfighting, but if that's the case why do so many heroes seem dedicated to split pushing? Gazlowe, Zagara, Hammer, etc.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On January 16 2015 07:51 Bigtony wrote:
It seems like split pushing is always worse than just going for objectives. I think this is an intentional design element to promote teamfighting, but if that's the case why do so many heroes seem dedicated to split pushing? Gazlowe, Zagara, Hammer, etc.
Cause its not always worse.
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Thrall doesn't seem too strong but can't tell yet without seeing many good players play him. He seems like an illidan to me, good with the proper setup but very squishy against stuns/disables as well.
Tier 1: tychus, valla, stitches,brightwing, arthas and uther now I think in roughly that order. Can't really go wrong with them and they should probably be your first picks.
Tier 2: thrall, illidan, kerrigan, zeratul, tassadar, falstad, nazeebo, tassadar and abathur.
All fine but more composition and map dependant. The rest is a bit less optimal I think and I dont find myself often seeing the need to take one of them without the bans in hero league. Lili looks quite decent and may be tier 2 as well, but have to test her more. Her blinding wind especially seems to vary in value, especially against strong melee basic attacks it can be great especially thrall.
Falstad dropped a bit in value I think because his new W is slightly poorer and he lost rewind and bolt of the storm. The new lvl 1 talent is sweet though but overall I don't put him on tychus and valla level anymore.
Chen and muradin are not really good anymore I think. Losing resurgence and having a weaker ult in Chen's case and no more crazy regen in muradin's case drops them a lot. Especially muradin is back to trash level I think, getting a slight buff on the jump and trait doesn't compare to the insane heal he had last patch.
Abathur is hard to gauge too, so much changed on him but overall his talents have improved a bit and his ults are on par to his old one I think. No heroic stinks but way more uptime helps. Overall I think he got a bit better but not to his old level of a full power clone every 2 minutes.
For hero league I tend to prefer first picking stitches if I can or persuade others. If that doesn't happen taking arthas and stitches on the other team seems quite a good move. Solid heroes that work well together and you deny the other team a good warrior. The other team can play without warrior then or have to take something like Chen. Without warrior with something like uther or illidan to form the frontline can work but tends to not work as well with brightwing so the team taking the warriors get's brightwing too or have the other team having some subpar choice already. At least that's how I feel about it for now.
In general in this format without bans I feel going second is usually an advantage. If no hero jumps out so much that getting the first pick on him is great the second team has the first double pick with which they can get a nice combination already, like taking away good options for a certain class for the other team. Also last pick is great to have I feel because you can counter some heroes still or spend it to take one of those strong heroes which is good if some others aren't around. For example abathur is much worse if zeratul is around, but both on the same team isn't that great I think. So the last picking team can take abathur if zeratul is not taken or zeratul if the others took abathur but not zeratul.
Perhaps I'm totally wrong on this just find myself happier losing the coin toss.
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On January 16 2015 08:15 Markwerf wrote:
Thrall doesn't seem too strong but can't tell yet without seeing many good players play him. He seems like an illidan to me, good with the proper setup but very squishy against stuns/disables as well.
Think Illidan but with more damage, more burst damage, and more sustain. Trust me, when you start seeing good players using him with windfury builds, you'll notice just how broken he is. My counterpick to Thrall is Zeratul, just to ensure that I or my team is able to burst him down before he hurts us.
Tier 1: tychus, valla, stitches,brightwing, arthas and uther now I think in roughly that order. Can't really go wrong with them and they should probably be your first picks.
Tier 2: thrall, illidan, kerrigan, zeratul, tassadar, falstad, nazeebo, tassadar and abathur.
Thrall is definitely tier 1. I think Zeratul is, too, but not many players use him well enough to be considered tier 1.
Falstad dropped a bit in value I think because his new W is slightly poorer and he lost rewind and bolt of the storm. The new lvl 1 talent is sweet though but overall I don't put him on tychus and valla level anymore.
I don't have a good bead on Falstad yet. I haven't seen one dominate any games, which is probably telling.
Chen and muradin are not really good anymore I think. Losing resurgence and having a weaker ult in Chen's case and no more crazy regen in muradin's case drops them a lot. Especially muradin is back to trash level I think, getting a slight buff on the jump and trait doesn't compare to the insane heal he had last patch.
I think Muradin is really strong now. If played well, he's on the same level as Arthas and Stitches. Chen, on the other hand, got kicked in the nuts with his ult nerf. It needed to happen, though. I think that players will lead with their ult more often rather than save it as a survival tool.
Abathur is hard to gauge too, so much changed on him but overall his talents have improved a bit and his ults are on par to his old one I think. No heroic stinks but way more uptime helps. Overall I think he got a bit better but not to his old level of a full power clone every 2 minutes.
I haven't seen a good abathur yet this patch. I haven't tried him either.
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Khaldor made two interesting interviews with Fnatic players (can't recall their names).
They said Muradin is top tier, definitely on the same tier as Stitches and maybe better than Arthas. The regen was important early game and allowed for some tower pushes but that's about it. The dwarf toss buff makes more than up for it and he has better lvl20 options than Arthas.
Regarding healers they said Lili was actually nerfed with the latest patch and list Brightwing > Uther, Rehgar is potentially more played than before and Malfurion as Nazeebo counter (healing through the ultimate).
One of them also said that Gazlowe might be viable and super strong on lvl20.
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Mexico2170 Posts
That wombo combo of gazlowe is super strong .
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EPT
