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Mexico2170 Posts
So what do you think of my Raynors build?
1.-Seasoned marksman. Sometimes i take the one that increased adrenaline rush healing to 50%.
2.-Advanced optics (increases range from 5 (5.5?) to 6.5. Sometime i choose focused atacks (increases the damage of one basic atack by 50% evey 10 seconds, cooldown reduced by a second for every based atack and raynors atacks every 1.25 seconds, so more less every 5-4 seconds in a fight). I like the range one because it gives you 1 shot more when fighitng against someone. Maybe it is because i play starcraft and i know that range is very important, for example in mutalisk vs phoenix, and it is more important when both units got the same movement speed, because it lets you kite more, but i don't know could be wrong, different game after all.
3.-Searing atack (increases damage from basic atack by 50% for 5 seconds) this one helps me "recover" the damage i lost by not chosing focused atacks. I like this one more because it gives me more control on when to active it, instead of just "randomly" activating.
4.-Raynors raiders
5.-Giagant killer (empowers basic atacks agains heroes).
6.-Bullseye: The first enemy hit by penetrating round is stuned and takes 50% more damage. I like this one because in team fights, using penetrating round is tricky, as sometimesbecause it pushes the enemy back could help them escape, this is specially problematic with melee team mates. Sometimes, you have to really think how and in which direction you will use it. Bulls eye reduced this by stuning the enemy briefly and doing more damage to them so it is easier to kill then with this, and even if you don't kill them, thanks to the increased range talent, and the stun, you can finish them off, or your team mates can.
7.-Bolt of the storm. Raynors got no escape ability, although you can use penetrating round to escape. Bolt of the storm gives you the escaping ability you need, and along with adrenaline rush, you will be very very very hard to kill.
I don't know if other use this build, haven't really got into watching which builds the pros use, but i think this is a good one. What do you guys think? should I change something?
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Bullseye is best in duels, but that usually doesn't happen. Executioner is better with a good team, Berserk is better with a bad team where you have to carry.
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I never thought I would like a moba, but I really enjoy this :D
Edit: Already bought heroes for 35 EUR though... But 11 heroes + skins and mounts for that is okay I think.
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OK, a question: from what I've seen and read (not much), this game seems like a very dumbed-down MOBA - only one resource (XP, no gold), one common level for everybody, less options to choose from, constant semi-meaningless fighting (because deaths are less damaging and less rewarding for the killer) and lots and lots of buildings to kill so that people get the feeling whether they are ahead or not. Is there anything in there - apart from good old names playing it and beloved heroes - to make Heroes of the Storm interesting for somebody who plays DOTA?
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^ it puts more emphasis on other things like objectives, early team fights and specific map mechanics (5 different maps)
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If you don't have one hour to play a dota game you can play this game instead. That's the only big advantage I see right now  .
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On November 02 2014 21:49 RouaF wrote:If you don't have one hour to play a dota game you can play this game instead. That's the only big advantage I see right now .
And how long is a HotS game then?
EDIT: And btw, does lasthitting creeps matter there? Or is same xp granted when your creeps kill them?
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Loving Tyrande, my current build is:
Pierce
Empower
Then the third skill is the flex skill, the most common picks of mine would be Mule, Aura and Battle Momentum.
Shadowstalk
Sprint
Ranger
Hunters Prey, I know some people prefer Storm Shield but the extra movement speed is so strong is so many situations.
Playing this build today has me going 9/10 wins in Solo Q. (Last game went 43-1)
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United States22154 Posts
On November 02 2014 22:15 Ufnal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2014 21:49 RouaF wrote:If you don't have one hour to play a dota game you can play this game instead. That's the only big advantage I see right now . And how long is a HotS game then? EDIT: And btw, does lasthitting creeps matter there? Or is same xp granted when your creeps kill them?
20ish minutes, but sometimes as short as 12.
Lasthitting does nothing unless you have some specific talents.
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On November 02 2014 22:15 Ufnal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2014 21:49 RouaF wrote:If you don't have one hour to play a dota game you can play this game instead. That's the only big advantage I see right now . And how long is a HotS game then? EDIT: And btw, does lasthitting creeps matter there? Or is same xp granted when your creeps kill them?
Hotsgame depends on the map, I would say for mines 10-20 mins. Blackheartbay 15-25mins. Cursed Hollow 15-25mins Garden Map 20-30mins. Just as a general rule, I mean you can have a game on Blackheartbay that lasts 4mins.
Lasthitting doesn't matter, you just have to be near them when they die to gain the exp.
Also, about what you said earlier, (Fights are meaningless ect) they impact the game just as much as it does in Dota if not more in my experience, I've only lost one game (bearing in mind this was solo q) where I lost after winning the first 5 man fight on haunted mines.
What makes this game great, is the freedom you are not stuck to lanes like glue you can kill a wave and run to the next nearest lane gank or harass and then run back and still get your exp. It's constant action and you can tell a skilled player quite quickly.
edit: The main talent GMarshal is talking about would be Seasoned Marksmen.
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I wouldn't say that deaths are meaningless. Teams that die a lot early will fall behind quickly in xp. A 2-3 level advantage is basically impossible to overcome in a team fight unless the higher leveled team really screws up. Late game, a team wipe is more or less fatal given that the other team will be able to secure key objectives unopposed.
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On November 03 2014 02:33 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't say that deaths are meaningless. Teams that die a lot early will fall behind quickly in xp. A 2-3 level advantage is basically impossible to overcome in a team fight unless the higher leveled team really screws up. Late game, a team wipe is more or less fatal given that the other team will be able to secure key objectives unopposed.
Deaths are meaningless midgame when all the camps/major objectives are down and are largely meaningless at the very beginning of the game. Huge XP deficits come from when one whole lane dies and you lose that lane XP plus the XP from your death to the other team. That's what really causes early level discrepancy.
Also assuming no Gathering Power stacks...because god knows I've lost too many of those being cute.
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On November 03 2014 04:05 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 02:33 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't say that deaths are meaningless. Teams that die a lot early will fall behind quickly in xp. A 2-3 level advantage is basically impossible to overcome in a team fight unless the higher leveled team really screws up. Late game, a team wipe is more or less fatal given that the other team will be able to secure key objectives unopposed. Deaths are meaningless midgame when all the camps/major objectives are down and are largely meaningless at the very beginning of the game. Huge XP deficits come from when one whole lane dies and you lose that lane XP plus the XP from your death to the other team. That's what really causes early level discrepancy. Also assuming no Gathering Power stacks...because god knows I've lost too many of those being cute.
Still would not call them meaningless, if all major objectives are down then you attack the core otherwise there's always something that you can do to make use of that man advantage remember it's not just the seconds that they're down for but the walking time. But yes they can feel meaningless right at the start and in the midgame if it's solo q.
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On November 03 2014 04:05 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 02:33 xDaunt wrote:
I wouldn't say that deaths are meaningless. Teams that die a lot early will fall behind quickly in xp. A 2-3 level advantage is basically impossible to overcome in a team fight unless the higher leveled team really screws up. Late game, a team wipe is more or less fatal given that the other team will be able to secure key objectives unopposed. Deaths are meaningless midgame when all the camps/major objectives are down and are largely meaningless at the very beginning of the game. Huge XP deficits come from when one whole lane dies and you lose that lane XP plus the XP from your death to the other team. That's what really causes early level discrepancy. Also assuming no Gathering Power stacks...because god knows I've lost too many of those being cute.
Heh, I dunno. Early game deaths in one lane early on can screw a team pretty good and lead to a 2 level deficit. That happened to us in our Blackwater Bay game last night when our top lane shit the bed. We were significantly behind the whole game until that golem fight when we flipped it (pro comeback).
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tl;dr Compared to LoL and DotA, early deaths are meaningless in HotS except in a few circumstances.
The point is, the deaths early only matter if 2 or more of the following:
1) That means their team is losing lane XP.
2) They occur around the time of a major objective (chests, turn-in, mines, dragon knight, etc.)
3) They were not traded for anything (a tower/wall, a merc camp, another kill, etc.)
4) They cause the lane to be pushed and towers to run out of ammo.
Past lvl 20, you'll never have a 2 lvl lead for very long because xp/lvl goes up exponentially and xp/creep takes a slightly less sharp increase. It's part of the catchup mechanic. Deaths are most impactful in the midgame, lvl 10-17. Then the timers are long enough that objectives can be turned into a push before you're back. Pre-10, if your entire team dies at a merc camp, you can all be back and at your fort at roughly the same time as the mercs are.
The only time 10-17 deaths don't matter is when all merc camps have been taken and killed, lanes are generally even or pushing in your favor, and there is no objective in the next 30 seconds. Perfect example is Dragon Shire: all the camps got taken during the dragon dance, your team got it, pushed, and you (and probably several of your buddies) died on the way out. All of your lanes are pushing, they can't take a merc camp or the dragon or really do anything but shove up and chip at a fort/keep for minimal damage before you're alive again.
The difference is that in DotA 2, you lose money + the 135g for a TP scroll, and in LoL it takes forever to get back to lane which usually results in a lot of lost gold/xp and damage to your tower. In addition, the XP gained from a solo kill early will likely give your lane opponent a 1 lvl advantage over you from just 1 kill. Compared to that, an early death in HotS Is relatively meaningless.
That said, level differences are a LOT more noticable in HotS, partially because it's all 5 heroes with an incremental advantage rather than they typical 1-2 fed heroes in LoL/DotA. You gain more relative stats/level in HotS and ability damage/healing/shield all scale with hero level rather than skill level. This is especially true when they're up a talent level and even moreso when that level is 10.
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Just played my first few games of Heroes. Really enjoying it so far, playing as Tassadar! I'll probably try out Sgt. Hammer next.
I'm kinda interested to see new features as they come. New characters + talents, new maps... I'm wondering how draft/ranked would work here. In addition to banning a few champions a la League, could each team ban a map or two?
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On November 03 2014 05:33 deth2munkies wrote:
tl;dr Compared to LoL and DotA, early deaths are meaningless in HotS except in a few circumstances.
Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue with this, which is why HotS is far less snowbally than either of those games.
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Mexico2170 Posts
early deaths aren't meaningless, that would mean that i can just go and suicide 10 times and i wouldn't be damaging my team and that would be a lie. HOWEVER, yeah, they aren't as meaningful as LoL or dota in the early stages.
But this, as well as a lot of things in this game is map dependant, for example, in blackhearths bay, if you get a chest early, and die and the enemy takes your coins, thats a big big big loss for example.
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On November 03 2014 06:00 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 05:33 deth2munkies wrote:
tl;dr Compared to LoL and DotA, early deaths are meaningless in HotS except in a few circumstances.
Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue with this, which is why HotS is far less snowbally than either of those games.
Is it? I haven't played HotS but when I hear game times ranging from 5 minutes to 20 minutes it sounds incredibly snowbally. Dota and LoL aren't really that snowbally anymore. These days LoL early game is almost meaningless unless you get such a huge advantage you can play with your feet to win.
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On November 03 2014 06:46 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2014 06:00 xDaunt wrote:On November 03 2014 05:33 deth2munkies wrote:
tl;dr Compared to LoL and DotA, early deaths are meaningless in HotS except in a few circumstances.
Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue with this, which is why HotS is far less snowbally than either of those games. Is it? I haven't played HotS but when I hear game times ranging from 5 minutes to 20 minutes it sounds incredibly snowbally. Dota and LoL aren't really that snowbally anymore. These days LoL early game is almost meaningless unless you get such a huge advantage you can play with your feet to win.
I haven't played much LoL over the past year, but my recollection is that it is far easier to get significantly ahead in LoL and maintain that advantage than it is in HotS. This is mostly a function of gold/item advantage from kills. If one of your carries gets fed in LoL, it is pretty damned hard to lose. In HotS, we only have to worry about xp/level advantage. It becomes pretty easy to catch up in the late game if you can just hang around. Also, if you win one teamfight when you're down 1-2 levels, you typically will erase the deficit immediately.
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EPT
