EPTIf you get that last hit and the "gold" or "whatver" appears its instant gratification.. You did good, do more!
seriously... Yeah, you might call it tedious or "stupid" but it is just a fun mechanic.
Heroes Large General Thread - Page 103
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Velr
Switzerland10696 Posts
If you get that last hit and the "gold" or "whatver" appears its instant gratification.. You did good, do more! seriously... Yeah, you might call it tedious or "stupid" but it is just a fun mechanic. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On July 27 2014 03:15 PRJ wrote: you're trying way too hard to defend a mechanic that you clearly are invested in. In addition, many of your points are related to creeps themselves, not the mechanic of last hitting. It's counter-intuitive because the game design leads people to think that you should attack enemies, not wait for them to get low health and tag them at the appropriate time. It's hard arguing with moba fans because the game is built upon foundations of weird mechanics that have been grandfather'd in to the point they don't even how ridiculous the design is to people that don't have an intimate understanding of the systems already. Combos don't make much sense and are weird too in fighting games (if the guy isn't hitting you with a hard hit, you can easily counter attack, a little jab shouldn't stun lock you, doesn't make sense, but in the realm of fighting games it does). Just because it's a weird mechanic that has been grandfathered in doesn't make it a bad mechanic. | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
Personally I don't understand what is so great about last hitting. Yeah, I read a few posts here and why people think it's cool and shit. It's a pain for me. Whenver I go into a game, I just think... I have to deal with this crap over and over again, having to worry about creep meters. It's like those games where once you see a meter fill you just hit spacebar or something.. It takes skill, there's timing involved, positioning, management, etc, but it is not the kind of skill I would want to be good at because it's simply a nuisance. Almost any mechanic can have "skill" involved that impacts the gameplay directly. You can have a huge diglett pop out from the ground at a patterned interval to hit and call that stuff "skill." Sure, it's something you can practice, but it's fucking mindless. You can go into details about how it affects gameplay and how great the decision making is to do it right, but I feel that's just way too exaggerated because it is not applicable to I would say the majority of the player base. When looking at the mechanic from a broader point of view, it's a crap mechanic for new players, rewarding older players based on their experience and not how smart and decisive they can be. Basically a mechanic that takes away from player interactions and suggests farming. I would love it if we can minimize the farming aspect and more strategy. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
Can we have more depth in critiques than, 'it's an arbitrary mechanic' with bugger all expansion on the central assertion. Valifer's post on what he thinks, even if you disagree is pretty damn explanatory. Unnecessary perhaps, but counter-intuitive? From my limited plays of WC3 DOTA it was the easiest and cleanest part of the whole skillset to pick up for me? | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On July 27 2014 09:58 Lokian wrote: i play dota 2...over 2k games so far (couple of years worth of time there) and some league. Personally I don't understand what is so great about last hitting. Yeah, I read a few posts here and why people think it's cool and shit. It's a pain for me. Whenver I go into a game, I just think... I have to deal with this crap over and over again, having to worry about creep meters. It's like those games where once you see a meter fill you just hit spacebar or something.. It takes skill, there's timing involved, positioning, management, etc, but it is not the kind of skill I would want to be good at because it's simply a nuisance. Almost any mechanic can have "skill" involved that impacts the gameplay directly. You can have a huge diglett pop out from the ground at a patterned interval to hit and call that stuff "skill." Sure, it's something you can practice, but it's fucking mindless. You can go into details about how it affects gameplay and how great the decision making is to do it right, but I feel that's just way too exaggerated because it is not applicable to I would say the majority of the player base. When looking at the mechanic from a broader point of view, it's a crap mechanic for new players, rewarding older players based on their experience and not how smart and decisive they can be. Basically a mechanic that takes away from player interactions and suggests farming. I would love it if we can minimize the farming aspect and more strategy. I'm a horrible MOBA player (I barely play any), but last hitting is fun... removing it just removes so much interaction. It really isn't mindless, because you know the opposing laner is going to try to do the same which creates openings and interactions, and decisions. Can't really judge heroes of the storm since I played it like once, but I thought removing last hitting was pretty boring. | ||
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ETisME
12387 Posts
It affects creep movement and their engagement points which influence on your interaction with your opposing lane opponent. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
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soulglider009
United States40 Posts
I've played hundreds of games of DOTA and LOL, and I prefer Hots over both. Taking away gold/last hitting/items increases the focus on map presence, movement and teamwork. And my games average just around 20 minutes, as opposed to 40+ games from the other 2. I don't think we should think of Hots as really having a "laning phase". There is just time between doing objectives, and time when you are doing them. It's beneficial to have people in all 3 lanes whenever possible, unless trying to get neutrals/do objectives/push or w/e. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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Excalibur_Z
United States12235 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On July 29 2014 00:09 Excalibur_Z wrote: There is now, which is where the discussion originated. Damaging a creep at imminent death awards permanent bonus damage. IF you have the artifact, right? | ||
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Lunchador
United States776 Posts
Level 1 talent for generally assassin-type heroes, and is otherwise in its current state, kind of lackluster. | ||
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Footler
United States560 Posts
On July 27 2014 09:58 Lokian wrote: i play dota 2...over 2k games so far (couple of years worth of time there) and some league. Personally I don't understand what is so great about last hitting. Yeah, I read a few posts here and why people think it's cool and shit. It's a pain for me. Whenver I go into a game, I just think... I have to deal with this crap over and over again, having to worry about creep meters. It's like those games where once you see a meter fill you just hit spacebar or something.. It takes skill, there's timing involved, positioning, management, etc, but it is not the kind of skill I would want to be good at because it's simply a nuisance. Almost any mechanic can have "skill" involved that impacts the gameplay directly. You can have a huge diglett pop out from the ground at a patterned interval to hit and call that stuff "skill." Sure, it's something you can practice, but it's fucking mindless. You can go into details about how it affects gameplay and how great the decision making is to do it right, but I feel that's just way too exaggerated because it is not applicable to I would say the majority of the player base. When looking at the mechanic from a broader point of view, it's a crap mechanic for new players, rewarding older players based on their experience and not how smart and decisive they can be. Basically a mechanic that takes away from player interactions and suggests farming. I would love it if we can minimize the farming aspect and more strategy. I agree with you. I won't bash anyone for liking it but I truly can not get into that type of skill at all and HotS gets rid of most of that stuff and focuses on the more enjoyable aspects such as killing players and taking objectives. I do feel the maps in HotS could use more depth though and right now Blackheart Bay feels the best designed to me in terms of decision making, layout and objectives. The new the Garden map seems like it may be good but I haven't had the luck of getting it that often. I'm most excited to see what the community does with the map maker once it gets released. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I wrote a bit about eSports and Heroes of the Storm's confusing direction and would love to know what you guys think here as well as in Dota 2/LoL: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/dota-2-general/463422-drawing-players-into-mobas-armchair-athleticism http://tortedelini.wordpress.com/2014/07/27/drawing-players-into-mobas-through-accessibility-and-investment/ Same article, just if you prefer reading on the forums or directly from the site! | ||
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Pwere
Canada1556 Posts
Obviously, the skills required are different. People might prefer last hitting, some might find slaughtering waves of creep more fun, but the HotS way is definitely more intuitive. As long as they give you something to do early, they don't need last hitting. They removed items and changed the map because they want something unique. Last Hitting doesn't fit at all with their old philosophy, but then again, artifacts don't either, so it seems greed trumped principles once again. | ||
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hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
On July 27 2014 21:43 soulglider009 wrote: Giving creeps 0 exp and then giving players this experience overtime would ruin the game completely. It's important to be in lane to get lane exp. EXP is extremely important in Hots, and even being 1 level ahead gives your team an advantage, especially when you get a new talent. If you took this away, there would be no reason to not just roll as 5 at all times. Right now if you are constantly in a 5 man ball, as long as the other team doesn't suicide into you they will out level you quickly and roll over you once they ball up. I've played hundreds of games of DOTA and LOL, and I prefer Hots over both. Taking away gold/last hitting/items increases the focus on map presence, movement and teamwork. And my games average just around 20 minutes, as opposed to 40+ games from the other 2. I don't think we should think of Hots as really having a "laning phase". There is just time between doing objectives, and time when you are doing them. It's beneficial to have people in all 3 lanes whenever possible, unless trying to get neutrals/do objectives/push or w/e. EXP is such an arbitrary mechanic though. Being in range of someone dying makes you stronger? That doesn't make any sense. All it does is encourage teams to spread out and grind EXP all over the fight and wait to fight. It's counter-intuitive that you shouldn't be close to most of your allies. Standing next to creeps isn't a skill I want to be good at. /s | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 27 2014 09:35 Velr wrote: last hitting should be in heroes... and every moba for that reason... because it is fun. If you get that last hit and the "gold" or "whatver" appears its instant gratification.. You did good, do more! seriously... Yeah, you might call it tedious or "stupid" but it is just a fun mechanic. That's one of the reasons I don't think i'd like this game. No point in even messing with the creeps, since youre not gonna buy items since they dont exist, and last hitting has no meaning so its just kinda like, why even bother? I enjoy the fighting and such in mobas, but i really really enjoy farming and my cs having some kind of meaning other than just, theres no point in doing this but im gonna just kill creeps for no reason | ||
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