EPTNew Expansion: Whispers of the Old Gods - Page 35
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Slydie
1929 Posts
On curve, it is extremely likely to kill Chillwind Yeti with upside What? I would say he is much more likely to die to a dark peddler, leper gnome and ironbeak owl. Then you need to spend additional mana NEXT turn to TRY to kill off that yeti your opponent slammed down at you. If toxins were 0 mana, then maybe it would have been good, but as is... meh! | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 26 2016 23:31 Slydie wrote: What? I would say he is much more likely to die to a dark peddler, leper gnome and ironbeak owl. Then you need to spend additional mana NEXT turn to TRY to kill off that yeti your opponent slammed down at you. If toxins were 0 mana, then maybe it would have been good, but as is... meh! When your Freeze Mage opponent plays Acolyte of Pain, you don't go "wow lol only 3-1 for 3 mana, what awful value" or when the Warlock plays Dark Peddler for 3(2-2 when 3-4 would be in line) you don't suddenly expect them to lose, in fact the opponent generally goes "oh god no" when he sees a Dark Peddler. Maybe your opponent plays a Yeti afterwards and on turn 5 you play Holy Smite -> Eviscerate or something, who got more value out of the cards then? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Real_Joy
United States0 Posts
On March 27 2016 03:18 NewSunshine wrote: I think Xaril is being evaluated in a vacuum by some here. Even in a vacuum, when you compare it to Discover cards, it's budgeted approximately the same, only Xaril gives you 2 cards instead of 1. Once you think about the Rogue class as a whole, Xaril looks even better, because they have the Combo mechanic to think about. Having 1 card that gives you 2 1-mana spells to help enable your combo cards will give you so much more flexibility. Think of every time you played Fan of Knives just to enable your Eviscerate, and instead imagine casting a 1-mana draw 1 card spell, or an Arcane Shot. You can suddenly start getting more value out of each and every card in your deck, Combo or otherwise, it'll improve your card rhythm. Also I think it's being underestimated by many with gadgetzan. The difference between 1 and 2 mana spells with gadgetzan is huge. Playing the holy smite and the card draw is vastly superior to playing a shiv or likely even an eviscerate, and that is not saying anything about the stealth toxin. Also I think that it will enable huge gadgetzan turns a tiny bit earlier. | ||
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Slydie
1929 Posts
On March 26 2016 23:31 Slydie wrote: Show nested quote + What? I would say he is much more likely to die to a dark peddler, leper gnome and ironbeak owl. Then you need to spend additional mana NEXT turn to TRY to kill off that yeti your opponent slammed down at you. If toxins were 0 mana, then maybe it would have been good, but as is... meh! When your Freeze Mage opponent plays Acolyte of Pain, you don't go "wow lol only 3-1 for 3 mana, what awful value" or when the Warlock plays Dark Peddler for 3(2-2 when 3-4 would be in line) you don't suddenly expect them to lose, in fact the opponent generally goes "oh god no" when he sees a Dark Peddler. Maybe your opponent plays a Yeti afterwards and on turn 5 you play Holy Smite -> Eviscerate or something, who got more value out of the cards then? Drawing a card from your deck or discovering a card is way better than getting a toxins. Also, Acolyte of pain stats is better on turn 3 than this guy on turn 4... who kills a leper gnome and survives? As for the yeti play... then you spent your entire turn 5 clearing his turn 4, leaving him to flooding the board at will on turn 5. This card puts you too far behind. Combo-decks need to cycle like crazy, but one thing is certain, they need cards from THEIR DECK, not these toxins, they are simply too unreliable. It is the same logic that some people thought the lightbanes would be good in a spare-part heavy mech mage. I tried it, and it absolutely sucked. Anything you build your deck around need to win you the game consistantly... No, I do not see this card in a vacum, I see it as a card I will mostly play AGAINST, and guess what, I have a very hard time imagining this card causing me any trouble whatsoever. The toxins are decent, but not mana-cheating, which they would have to be to be worth it. The only exception would be if they release more toxin-related or OP combo-cards, which could happen. | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
On March 27 2016 02:11 Shikyo wrote: When your Freeze Mage opponent plays Acolyte of Pain, you don't go "wow lol only 3-1 for 3 mana, what awful value" or when the Warlock plays Dark Peddler for 3(2-2 when 3-4 would be in line) you don't suddenly expect them to lose, in fact the opponent generally goes "oh god no" when he sees a Dark Peddler. Maybe your opponent plays a Yeti afterwards and on turn 5 you play Holy Smite -> Eviscerate or something, who got more value out of the cards then? Weird comparison. Freeze mage openly concedes the board. Acolyte does very little in terms of trading. Freeze mage can get away with it because drawing cards is what freeze mage is trying to accomplish. If its played any turn 5 onwards its essentially a draw 2 for 1 card, which is great. Terrible for board control, but that's fine because freeze mage does not actually play competitive minions. Rogue, on the contrary, fights for board very aggressively on turn 3 and especially turn 4. Playing Xeril not help you win the board in any way. It trades terribly with nearly everything. Virtually every 4 drop trades into Xeril and survives, meaning you have to allocate additional resources (perhaps 1 of the poisons) just to kill the 4 drop that dealt with Xeril and lived. And that's assuming that one of your opponents trash minions doesn't trade up with it, which is very easy to do since it has an abysmal 2 bulk. Xeril is not some insane value machine. You'll probably net 1 card from it when compared to something as vanilla as a yeti, and even that is at a significant tempo loss since Xeril and poisons cost 6! mana. Xeril is so horribly inept compared to dark peddler that the two should never be compared. Dark peddler is not a 3 mana 2-2! It's a 2 mana 2-2 that generates another card. If you compare it at 3 mana you need to include the card it got. If you get a voidwalker, its 3-5 stats for 3 mana. If you get an abusive its a 4-3 battlecry +2 attack for 3 mana. And that's without considering the powerhouse warlock cards like P.O. and even mortal coil. Peddler is very aggressively costed and is amazing in both tempo and value departments. If there was a 2 mana rogue 2 - 2 with deathrattle (or battlecry) draw a Xeril poison it would be absolutely insane. And only that insane card could be compared to peddler. But Xeril is significantly worse than that. On March 27 2016 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:Once you think about the Rogue class as a whole, Xaril looks even better, because they have the Combo mechanic to think about. Having 1 card that gives you 2 1-mana spells to help enable your combo cards will give you so much more flexibility. Think of every time you played Fan of Knives just to enable your Eviscerate, and instead imagine casting a 1-mana draw 1 card spell, or an Arcane Shot. You can suddenly start getting more value out of each and every card in your deck, Combo or otherwise, it'll improve your card rhythm. Its true that the poisons will improve the flow of your plays later in the game, I agree with that. As I've said I think the poisons are actually fine, but the thing is you are going to be destroying your rhythm so much by playing a 4 mana 3-2 so you need some later advantage to simply break even. Which begs the question: Do you ever want this card on 4 or is it maybe better when considered at 6+ mana when mana is less of a constraint? Regarding combos, malyrogue right now only plays 4 combo cards, 2x evis and 2x SI:7, neither of which are particularly hard to combo from turn 6 on anyways, especially if you are drawing, you know, real cards. Remember Xeril only comes online at 4 mana, whereas cheap activators are most valued probably between 2-5 mana. The poisons are exceptional for enabling tinkers, however oil rogue is even more dependent on tempo than maly rogue, and is much less likely to run auctioneer. Is this card even worth running at all if you don't run auctioneer? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Kenpark
Germany2350 Posts
Blizzard is prob the same opinion since they communicated that Rogue class cards are too strong. Still seems like a fun card though. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Hj7EaP4.png) | ||
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Noidberg
United States17 Posts
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stealthrider
24 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
Edit: go face. | ||
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itchiko
0 Posts
On March 27 2016 19:14 stealthrider wrote: Too slow for face hunter, probably too slow for midrange hunter. Could this be one of the cards that finally makes control hunter viable? It is indeed a value card but I do not think it is a good fit for a control deck (It needs a board to be played + what it gives you is very probably only board presence). As such I think it is a way better fit in a Midrange build where you can fight for the board only and then Snowball your board into more value. Snowballing into values is not really the Traditional Midrange approach of the hunter though that usually wants to snowball its board into face damage instead. That said this looks like a very solid card: it needs 2 minion on the board to be an arcane intellect level of value and can scale easily higher. It is cheap enough to be played at the end of the turn after you have repopulated the board. Special mention to unleash the hound that will more or less draw you one card for each opposing minion for 6 mana: the return of teh buzzard + unleash in a more balanced version. That can be good enough to warrant a change of how the hunter midrange is build towards more value/beats synergy instead of just Tempo and reach. Overall really happy to see a good hunter card. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
Something i am waiting for is what kind of 1 drop they will add in this expansion that might be interesting for camel. And i am not sure but can the "get a random beast card" effects give you animal companion beasts? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
So what happened to that last card that was supposed to be revealed yesterday? Did that just get dropped off? | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
I wish they'd give Hunter some serious and interesting tools instead of making it the Huffer class. | ||
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