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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 21 2016 03:47 Hryul wrote: the tauren is a worse sludge belcher. 5 health is much better than 3. Volazj is just a win more even more like Kel'thuzad. not impressed by those two. I personally compared it to shredder than sludge | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On March 21 2016 03:53 Drazerk wrote: I personally compared it to shredder than sludge good point, 4 mana for a 2-mana minion and a random 2-mana minion sans battlecry, main difference is shredders 4/3 stats is more like a 3-mana minion while taurnes 2/3 with taunt is more like an average 2-mana minion. imo: pretty bad, don't thinkn it will see much play, maybe a little bit in very specialized decks. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 21 2016 04:37 NewSunshine wrote: It doens't really do much good to be comparing every 4-drop and every taunt minion we see to Shredder and Belcher anyway. Cards like that aren't going to be in Standard, and part of the point of Standard rotation is to keep the power level of cards from increasing. Without Naxx and GvG to consider, all the sets that remain - as well as what we've seen so far from Old Gods - are of roughly the same power level. Also, what we're seeing with all these new 4-drops is variety. We experienced a game where the 4-drop slot has been dominated by Shredder since it came out, now they're designing a number of alternatives for many different decks. I think it's gonna be much better for deckbuilding to have a set like this in play. Issue is most classes already have a solid 4 drop that can just use. Mage - Water elemental Druid - Savage combatant / Bigger yeti / keeper Hunter - Houndmaster Paladin - Keeper / Murloc knight Priest - Holy Champion / Auchanie Rogue - Tomb Pillager Shaman - Rumbling elemental / Fireguard That pretty much just leaves Warrior / Warlock who lack a solid 4 drop and then we have Cthun's servent which is basically shredder 2.0 we can just slot in. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 21 2016 04:43 Drazerk wrote: Issue is most classes already have a solid 4 drop that can just use. Mage - Water elemental Druid - Savage combatant / Bigger yeti / keeper Hunter - Houndmaster Paladin - Keeper / Murloc knight Priest - Holy Champion / Auchanie Rogue - Tomb Pillager Shaman - Rumbling elemental / Fireguard That pretty much just leaves Warrior / Warlock who lack a solid 4 drop and then we have Cthun's servent which is basically shredder 2.0 we can just slot in. It's not just about having 1 solid 4-drop though, all the ones you listed are pretty specific to certain decks, except for Keeper of the Grove. Not every deck is going to want to run C'Thun, and if you want to run something else you need an alternative to choose from. My point was that all the 4-drops we're seeing are alternatives, all of them have certain strengths and weakness, and allow more deckbuilding flexibility. More so than that, none of the cards you listed have any chance of dominating the metagame like Shredder did, and most of them are class cards at that. There's no chance of 1 neutral minion dominating the 4-drop slot for every class like Shredder has done. You're going to see more different cards from all the different classes, and more diversity in gameplay as a result. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13995 Posts
On March 21 2016 04:43 Drazerk wrote: Issue is most classes already have a solid 4 drop that can just use. Mage - Water elemental Druid - Savage combatant / Bigger yeti / keeper Hunter - Houndmaster Paladin - Keeper / Murloc knight Priest - Holy Champion / Auchanie Rogue - Tomb Pillager Shaman - Rumbling elemental / Fireguard That pretty much just leaves Warrior / Warlock who lack a solid 4 drop and then we have Cthun's servent which is basically shredder 2.0 we can just slot in. None of the Warlock lists really need a class 4 drop right now, unless they want to try and revive demonlock in some way. Warriors on the other hand lose death's bite and shredder so their 4 drops are practically non exisistant. As for the two new cards they just dropped, they're pretty meh. Will be fun to see if anyone can make them competitive, but I doubt it. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 21 2016 04:48 NewSunshine wrote: It's not just about having 1 solid 4-drop though, all the ones you listed are pretty specific to certain decks, except for Keeper of the Grove. Not every deck is going to want to run C'Thun, and if you want to run something else you need an alternative to choose from. My point was that all the 4-drops we're seeing are alternatives, all of them have certain strengths and weakness, and allow more deckbuilding flexibility. More so than that, none of the cards you listed have any chance of dominating the metagame like Shredder did, and most of them are class cards at that. There's no chance of 1 neutral minion dominating the 4-drop slot for every class like Shredder has done. You're going to see more different cards from all the different classes, and more diversity in gameplay as a result. Yeah I understand but its more like we go from shredder to picking the class shredders. Water Elemental for example is already starting to see a lot of play in Tempo mage and Tomb Pillager is basically an auto include. Of course Cthun's Servent will probably fuck all this up because its just too good for its cost. | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On March 21 2016 04:37 NewSunshine wrote: It doens't really do much good to be comparing every 4-drop and every taunt minion we see to Shredder and Belcher anyway. Cards like that aren't going to be in Standard, and part of the point of Standard rotation is to keep the power level of cards from increasing. Without Naxx and GvG to consider, all the sets that remain - as well as what we've seen so far from Old Gods - are of roughly the same power level. Also, what we're seeing with all these new 4-drops is variety. We experienced a game where the 4-drop slot has been dominated by Shredder since it came out, now they're designing a number of alternatives for many different decks. I think it's gonna be much better for deckbuilding to have a set like this in play. no, but we at least can expect it to be stronger than Yeti and Taz'Dingo. otherwhise where back at square one. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 21 2016 05:14 Hryul wrote: no, but we at least can expect it to be stronger than Yeti and Taz'Dingo. otherwhise where back at square one. Shredder was stronger than Yeti. You know what happened there. The important thing is that it's an equally strong alternative for another kind of deck. Not every deck wants a 4/5 beatstick, maybe I want a sticky minion with taunt. Maybe I want card draw. Maybe I'm playing C'Thun. One 4-drop should not rule them all. | ||
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NovaAurora
United States0 Posts
Of course, this is all without seeing the vast majority of cards yet to be revealed so of course things could change. I'm just arguing why I think it's still valid to make those comparisons in the meantime. | ||
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Hellonslaught
Brazil0 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
1. Chillwind Yeti. So the Tauren has the same stats, but it will die in a straight-up fight against the Yeti without taking it down and can't be healed/buffed effectively and is vulnerable to silences. Oh, and when they get hit with Flamestrike, the Yeti leaves a 4/1 body rather than a 2/2 body. 2. Defender of Argus. They both put the same stats on the board and both have Taunt effects, but the Defender gets to put taunt on something that doesn't die to Fiery War Axe and the 2/2 gets "charge" instead of having to wait until death to affect the board. 3. Harvest Golem. You pay 1 more mana for one point of stats and Taunt. If that's not lackluster, then I don't know what is. I feel pretty confident in saying that this card is bad. There are three cards in Basic/Classic that I would all play over it for whatever purpose it could possibly serve. In that sense, it really does live up to the spirit of Tauren Warrior. I just wish they'd been way more aggressive with this card, by doing something like having its deathrattle kill the enemy weapon and summon a 3/2. That's not a universally amazing effect, but it's a cute little portmanteau of two old cards. But yeah this is unplayable. The 4-mana slot has traditionally not suffered for good cards, and this needs to be way better to challenge that. As far as the Priest legendary is concerned, there are a few cute combinations for it. Anything that triggers at end of turn is obviously good, like Thaurissan and Ragnaros or even Twilight Elder, and deathrattles like Loot Hoarder and (in Wild) Dark Cultist have some potency. There might be other new cards that work really well with it, too. But let's all not forget that it's a 5/5 for 6 that you can expect to summon a few 1/1s with some interesting special effects. It's certainly not an insane blowout play, or at least doesn't appear to be, but it sounds to me like a significantly toned-down Dr. Boom or Onyxia. I don't think it'll be an auto-craft, but it could be a situational choice for a high-curve drop in a very particular kind of Priest deck. That seems like an okay place to be. | ||
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convention
United States622 Posts
On March 21 2016 07:01 Acritter wrote: Here are three reasonable points of comparison for the new Tauren. 1. Chillwind Yeti. So the Tauren has the same stats, but it will die in a straight-up fight against the Yeti without taking it down and can't be healed/buffed effectively and is vulnerable to silences. Oh, and when they get hit with Flamestrike, the Yeti leaves a 4/1 body rather than a 2/2 body. 2. Defender of Argus. They both put the same stats on the board and both have Taunt effects, but the Defender gets to put taunt on something that doesn't die to Fiery War Axe and the 2/2 gets "charge" instead of having to wait until death to affect the board. 3. Harvest Golem. You pay 1 more mana for one point of stats and Taunt. If that's not lackluster, then I don't know what is. If your deck needs a minion on the board, for example to use with a defender of argus, then having something that can't be removed by one spell is better. Also, the standard power per mana means you do get one point of stats and taunt for one mana. The remaining slime doesn't have taunt, which makes it slightly worse. But to say "1 mana getting you one point of stats and taunt is bad" is straight up wrong. | ||
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ViZe
United States1513 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
Still, not very impressive given the known standard cards. But since it is so dependent on the card pool it is possible it could get a lot better. Waiting for this expansion is agony. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 21 2016 07:01 Acritter wrote: Here are three reasonable points of comparison for the new Tauren. 1. Chillwind Yeti. So the Tauren has the same stats, but it will die in a straight-up fight against the Yeti without taking it down and can't be healed/buffed effectively and is vulnerable to silences. Oh, and when they get hit with Flamestrike, the Yeti leaves a 4/1 body rather than a 2/2 body. 2. Defender of Argus. They both put the same stats on the board and both have Taunt effects, but the Defender gets to put taunt on something that doesn't die to Fiery War Axe and the 2/2 gets "charge" instead of having to wait until death to affect the board. 3. Harvest Golem. You pay 1 more mana for one point of stats and Taunt. If that's not lackluster, then I don't know what is. I feel pretty confident in saying that this card is bad. There are three cards in Basic/Classic that I would all play over it for whatever purpose it could possibly serve. In that sense, it really does live up to the spirit of Tauren Warrior. I just wish they'd been way more aggressive with this card, by doing something like having its deathrattle kill the enemy weapon and summon a 3/2. That's not a universally amazing effect, but it's a cute little portmanteau of two old cards. But yeah this is unplayable. The 4-mana slot has traditionally not suffered for good cards, and this needs to be way better to challenge that. As far as the Priest legendary is concerned, there are a few cute combinations for it. Anything that triggers at end of turn is obviously good, like Thaurissan and Ragnaros or even Twilight Elder, and deathrattles like Loot Hoarder and (in Wild) Dark Cultist have some potency. There might be other new cards that work really well with it, too. But let's all not forget that it's a 5/5 for 6 that you can expect to summon a few 1/1s with some interesting special effects. It's certainly not an insane blowout play, or at least doesn't appear to be, but it sounds to me like a significantly toned-down Dr. Boom or Onyxia. I don't think it'll be an auto-craft, but it could be a situational choice for a high-curve drop in a very particular kind of Priest deck. That seems like an okay place to be. Tauren does not have the same stats, it is a 2-5 and yeti a 4-5. Just like Cairne is 4-10 for 6 mana, not 8-10. Tauren will be the worst 4 drop in the game And I would pick silverback patriarch over it as a taunt. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On March 21 2016 09:15 Shikyo wrote: Tauren does not have the same stats, it is a 2-5 and yeti a 4-5. Just like Cairne is 4-10 for 6 mana, not 8-10. Tauren will be the worst 4 drop in the game And I would pick silverback patriarch over it as a taunt. While Blizzard is clearly scaling back on minions with summoning deathrattles, and this card might be a bit weak to see play, saying you'd rather play a card that's actually worse is just negativity for negativity's sake. | ||
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The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
I guess board only. In which case I don't see how useful it can be,it looks worst than Faceless Manipulator unless the meta for priest shifts towards more aggro/midrange with good effects ? And even then ... the only kind of minion that remains okish as 1/1 are deathrattle minions. You need to copy at least 2 minions for it to be better than faceless (maybe), for one more mana... I just don't see the reasoning on the cost. Hope some more cards make the synergy worth it otherwise it's a poorly wasted legendary class card slot  qqEDIT: oh i see the difference in wording, it's summon, so it can activate the battlecries, alright it's OKISH then ! EDIT2: or not, it's like summoning stone so no battrecries, it sucks again. | ||
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Pandahunterz
Netherlands213 Posts
Can't say anything sane on the 2/3 taunt at the moment. Haven't figured out any deck it would shine in, might still happen with new cards, but doubt it will be the new shredder or boom (or dr 6, but lets not speak of that one ever again) | ||
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