On March 18 2016 01:59 Madars wrote: I am wondering with so many comments about C'thun, does anyone know how Youthful Brewmaster, or Shadowstep work with it? would you get it back as 6/6? Trump in his video stated that you'd get the buffed version, or I didn't understand him?
You will probably get the full buff minion. That would be consistent with what we already know about stealing a C'thun (with a entomb) -> it would go back to a 6/6 because the C'thun buff are personal and not linked top the card itself.
If you have several C'thun in your deck will also probably all receive all of the buffs. basically those are buff of your hero itself (very similar to the Mistcaller buff).
Is this true that if you Youthful Brewmaster or in some other way return minion to hand after The Mistcaller battlecry buff, it's still has +1/+1? And if minion loses +1/+1 then I think C'thun would too, since all these effects are similar to The Mistcaller battlecry.
On March 18 2016 05:20 NewSunshine wrote: The thing about these cards is that the effect is slightly less powerful than you might expect at any given mana cost, but look at Druid cards. Except for Living Roots, their Choose One effects are always below par for the cost. So why do they still see play? Their flexibility. The fact that you can hold them for any kind of situation and have them still be relevant transcends the inefficiency those effects might have. Remember the very fundamental aspect of a card game: why is card draw good? Because you get more options. Why are more options good? Because you're more likely to have an option that's pertinent to the situation at hand. That's what makes these forbidden cards so good, they can always be relevant, at any mana cost and in any situation.
I believe this simply isn't true, so I'm going to go through all the relevant cards.
Living Roots: you conceded this one. Raven Idol: there's nothing this can be perfectly compared to, but the "cycling" effect is on par with Tracking. Anodized Robo-Cub: it's a stat-par mech with Taunt. It's not extraordinary, but it's above par. Contrast with Bloodfen Raptor and Frostwolf Grunt. Druid of the Saber: compare with Bloodfen Raptor and Bluegill Warrior. Par or above par. Power of the Wild: first effect can't be compared, but second is par with Bloodfen Raptor. Definitely an adequate card. Wrath: compare with Darkbomb and Shiv. Very slightly below par. Druid of the Flame: par on stats. Grove Tender: can't be perfectly compared, but it's statted reasonably for a small upside. Mark of Nature: no perfect comparison, but probably below par if we take Blessing of Might and Power Word: Shield into account. Keeper of the Grove: the way it's realistically statted out, it's good at handling 3/2s and thus aggro decks. Above par. Druid of the Claw: 4/6 with an ability is considered par (compare Spectral Knight), and 4/4 Charge for 5 beats Reckless Rocketeer for stats. Above par. Nourish: no real comparison, but the accepted draw formula appears to be: 1 mana=1 card plus (Tracking, old Flare), 3 mana=2 cards (Arcane Intellect), 5 mana=3 cards (Nourish), 7 mana=4 cards. Par. Starfall: subpar, given how unfavorably it compares to Mage removal. Dark Wispers: subpar. Ancient of Lore: holy shit so far above par it's incredible. Ancient of War: 15 total stats exceeds War Golem. It's unfair to compare it to Boom. Above par. Cenarius: 21 stats plus for 9 mana is above par. The card has some weaknesses, but it's stat-efficient.
So, overall, Druid choice cards tend to be around par, slightly above par, or slightly below par. Either way, it's unfair to say they're all inadequate. Really, they're just acceptable cards with a choice of which acceptable card you get. None of the choice cards besides Lore are utterly bonkers, though, while non-choice class cards tend much more to be utterly bonkers.
I'm not contesting that choice is valuable, just that these cards would be acceptably playable (though not remarkable) even without Choose One.
Notice that your comparing class cards to neutral cards when neutrals are weaker. So as a class card being on par with them is being weaker. You compare some to bloodfen raptor which itself is out classed by a neutral card.
Example Robo Cub compared to training partner. Both 5 stars and taunt + are class cards. Training partner buffs another minion on top. Cub is sub par but gets to choose how its last stat point as balance.
Druid of flame to the rogue raptor, 7 stats each raptor gains a battlecry to copy deathrattles.
The choices are weaker, acceptable yes otherwise they would never work but weaker still which was his point.
On March 18 2016 05:20 NewSunshine wrote: The thing about these cards is that the effect is slightly less powerful than you might expect at any given mana cost, but look at Druid cards. Except for Living Roots, their Choose One effects are always below par for the cost. So why do they still see play? Their flexibility. The fact that you can hold them for any kind of situation and have them still be relevant transcends the inefficiency those effects might have. Remember the very fundamental aspect of a card game: why is card draw good? Because you get more options. Why are more options good? Because you're more likely to have an option that's pertinent to the situation at hand. That's what makes these forbidden cards so good, they can always be relevant, at any mana cost and in any situation.
I believe this simply isn't true, so I'm going to go through all the relevant cards.
Living Roots: you conceded this one. Raven Idol: there's nothing this can be perfectly compared to, but the "cycling" effect is on par with Tracking. Anodized Robo-Cub: it's a stat-par mech with Taunt. It's not extraordinary, but it's above par. Contrast with Bloodfen Raptor and Frostwolf Grunt. Druid of the Saber: compare with Bloodfen Raptor and Bluegill Warrior. Par or above par. Power of the Wild: first effect can't be compared, but second is par with Bloodfen Raptor. Definitely an adequate card. Wrath: compare with Darkbomb and Shiv. Very slightly below par. Druid of the Flame: par on stats. Grove Tender: can't be perfectly compared, but it's statted reasonably for a small upside. Mark of Nature: no perfect comparison, but probably below par if we take Blessing of Might and Power Word: Shield into account. Keeper of the Grove: the way it's realistically statted out, it's good at handling 3/2s and thus aggro decks. Above par. Druid of the Claw: 4/6 with an ability is considered par (compare Spectral Knight), and 4/4 Charge for 5 beats Reckless Rocketeer for stats. Above par. Nourish: no real comparison, but the accepted draw formula appears to be: 1 mana=1 card plus (Tracking, old Flare), 3 mana=2 cards (Arcane Intellect), 5 mana=3 cards (Nourish), 7 mana=4 cards. Par. Starfall: subpar, given how unfavorably it compares to Mage removal. Dark Wispers: subpar. Ancient of Lore: holy shit so far above par it's incredible. Ancient of War: 15 total stats exceeds War Golem. It's unfair to compare it to Boom. Above par. Cenarius: 21 stats plus for 9 mana is above par. The card has some weaknesses, but it's stat-efficient.
So, overall, Druid choice cards tend to be around par, slightly above par, or slightly below par. Either way, it's unfair to say they're all inadequate. Really, they're just acceptable cards with a choice of which acceptable card you get. None of the choice cards besides Lore are utterly bonkers, though, while non-choice class cards tend much more to be utterly bonkers.
I'm not contesting that choice is valuable, just that these cards would be acceptably playable (though not remarkable) even without Choose One.
Notice that your comparing class cards to neutral cards when neutrals are weaker. So as a class card being on par with them is being weaker. You compare some to bloodfen raptor which itself is out classed by a neutral card.
Example Robo Cub compared to training partner. Both 5 stars and taunt + are class cards. Training partner buffs another minion on top. Cub is sub par but gets to choose how its last stat point as balance.
Druid of flame to the rogue raptor, 7 stats each raptor gains a battlecry to copy deathrattles.
The choices are weaker, acceptable yes otherwise they would never work but weaker still which was his point.
Basically, look at which ones are actually played. Yes, they're all the ones which are distinctly above par: KotG, DotC, Living Roots, Wrath, AoL, AoW, sometimes Cenarius... flexibility is good, but power is better.
Wrath isn't exactly above par, just to be clear. It's simply the fact that Darkbomb and Shiv are already insanely good cards that means they can take a hit and still be playable.
Forbidden Healing is also superb, imo. Let's imagine a few scenarios: 1. They've had board advantage for a while, but you gain it back. You use a relatively free turn to squeeze in healing to make yourself more comfortable. 2. They commit a lot of cards towards dealing damage to you - say, as Freeze Mage or Face Hunter. You heal and pass turn. 3. Equality, Consecration, heal for 8. 4. EZ Fatigue win. 5. Actually use it to heal a minion (crazy, I know)
Because of Healbot going out alongside Paladin's early game, it might be the case that Blizzard is trying to have the class return to a controlling role.
Those forbidden cards are formidable. Makes me want to play priest so badly. Such a nice Auchenai buff :D I wonder if Pala might refrain from playing that card if priests are decent in this expansion.
Ya, you would just lose them if you spend a full late-game turn on it. It would be more a tool for Zoo decks I imagine anyways, so they can always tap -> Imps.
Anyways that's the only prediction I can think of, but it is awkward, so I'll just be patient and see what they really cooked up.
The 0/1 +1/+1 for mana works if its warlock and you take half mana as damage too ie flame imp. Make it a demon as well. Forbidden ritual. Makes it more consistent than shaping at cost of health on hero
Not sure if hoax or not (so take it with caution) but there are rumors that another forbidden card was revealed by a Taiwanese streamer. Approximate translation:
Hunter Spell Spend all your mana. Deals 2 damage to the enemy hero for each mana spend over 3.
So basically doing a (X-3) * 2 face damage.
That seems overly complicated for Blizzard (which tend to keep their card text simple) but the streamer that revealed it seems to have a good reputation.
spend all your mana, put a coin in your hand for each mana spent. (seems so op XD)
spend all your mana, draw cards equal to half of the mana spent.
spend all your mana, give a minion +x/+x and taunt
spend all your mana, deal damage to all enemy minions equal to the mana spent, overload equal to the mana spent.
spend all your mana, the opponent draws cards equal to the mana spent.
spend all your mana, destroy 1 random minion for each mana spent.
spend all your mana, discover a spell that costs that much, you can play it for free this turn.
spend all your mana, put 1 Curse in your opponents hand for every third mana spent (seems weak but I think its deceptively strong)
spend all your mana, put 4 caltrops in your opponents deck for every mana spent (caltrop has text: when drawn, deal 1 damage to an allied character and draw a card) (balancing this effect seems tough, 3 caltrops per mana seems too weak but 4 per mana seems potentially a little too strong, a 10-mana turn 10 trigger basically reads: deal 2-3 damage to random enemies every turn for the rest of the game, this damage will not trigger ice block, also, reno jackson will never work ever)
spend all your mana, put 2 copies of this card into your hand, then end your turn. this card is always discarded before any other cards.
secret (so its not a 0-mana spell) when you take lethal damage, prevent it and spend all your mana, restore 3 health per mana spent.
minion: totem 0/2 at the end of your turn, spend all your mana and summon an elemental with attack and health equal to the spent mana.
weapon: 1/1 battlecry: spend all your mana, gain 1 attack and 1 durability for every second mana spent.
a lot of these are crazy and I doubt any of them will actually be real cards, but its fun to theorycraft
On March 19 2016 03:30 synccc wrote: Uh ya I don't think they'd give hunter a 12 damage nuke.
14 Damage actually and I agree that it looks pretty crazy.
But you would have told me yesterday that they would give a 20 heal for the Paladin and I would not have believed you either.
Also thinking about it: - It is basically useless for the face hunter since at 5 mana it is doing 4 damage (worse than a reckless rocketeer) - Even for a mid-rangy hunter it would be useless card in your hand that would sit there until turn 7 or 8. So a one of maybe but not even that great.
In a way very close to what pyroblast is in mage: Part of a victory condition for very slow/control decks. So it seems like a real possibility (except for the ugly calculation part of it).
Now I still hope this is a hoax: It is pretty boring af, does not promote any kind of inventive play and adaptability, it is just a big nuke.
Hunter: Spend all your mana. Summon a random beast with attack = that amount. Druid: Spend all your mana. The next card you play cost that much less. Rogue: Spend all your mana. Deal 1 damage to a random enemy for each mana expended that way. Shaman: Spend all your mana. Give your totens +1 HP for each mana expended that way. (haters gonna hate)
On March 19 2016 03:30 synccc wrote: Uh ya I don't think they'd give hunter a 12 damage nuke.
14 Damage actually and I agree that it looks pretty crazy.
But you would have told me yesterday that they would give a 20 heal for the Paladin and I would not have believed you either.
Also thinking about it: - It is basically useless for the face hunter since at 5 mana it is doing 4 damage (worse than a reckless rocketeer) - Even for a mid-rangy hunter it would be useless card in your hand that would sit there until turn 7 or 8. So a one of maybe but not even that great.
In a way very close to what pyroblast is in mage: Part of a victory condition for very slow/control decks. So it seems like a real possibility (except for the ugly calculation part of it).
Now I still hope this is a hoax: It is pretty boring af, does not promote any kind of inventive play and adaptability, it is just a big nuke.
I read it as every mana >3 so 4+. Also it's great for finishing off opponents as Midrange or Control Hunter, you get way more chip damage in than freezemage, having a 12 or 14 damage nuke is pretty gamebreaking.
EPT
