EPTNew Expansion: Whispers of the Old Gods - Page 19
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Terywj
Hong Kong0 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
On March 18 2016 05:20 NewSunshine wrote: The thing about these cards is that the effect is slightly less powerful than you might expect at any given mana cost, but look at Druid cards. Except for Living Roots, their Choose One effects are always below par for the cost. So why do they still see play? Their flexibility. The fact that you can hold them for any kind of situation and have them still be relevant transcends the inefficiency those effects might have. Remember the very fundamental aspect of a card game: why is card draw good? Because you get more options. Why are more options good? Because you're more likely to have an option that's pertinent to the situation at hand. That's what makes these forbidden cards so good, they can always be relevant, at any mana cost and in any situation. A 5/5 and drawing 2 cards is excellent for 7 mana. A 4/6 with taunt is about right at 5 mana, and a 4/4 with charge isn't bad at 5 mana either. Not all of the "Choose One" options are below par for their cost. A random x-drop without battlecry does not have that same base level of reliability, and I don't know if the flexibility makes up for that. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On March 18 2016 05:20 NewSunshine wrote: The thing about these cards is that the effect is slightly less powerful than you might expect at any given mana cost, but look at Druid cards. Except for Living Roots, their Choose One effects are always below par for the cost. So why do they still see play? Their flexibility. The fact that you can hold them for any kind of situation and have them still be relevant transcends the inefficiency those effects might have. Remember the very fundamental aspect of a card game: why is card draw good? Because you get more options. Why are more options good? Because you're more likely to have an option that's pertinent to the situation at hand. That's what makes these forbidden cards so good, they can always be relevant, at any mana cost and in any situation. I believe this simply isn't true, so I'm going to go through all the relevant cards. Living Roots: you conceded this one. Raven Idol: there's nothing this can be perfectly compared to, but the "cycling" effect is on par with Tracking. Anodized Robo-Cub: it's a stat-par mech with Taunt. It's not extraordinary, but it's above par. Contrast with Bloodfen Raptor and Frostwolf Grunt. Druid of the Saber: compare with Bloodfen Raptor and Bluegill Warrior. Par or above par. Power of the Wild: first effect can't be compared, but second is par with Bloodfen Raptor. Definitely an adequate card. Wrath: compare with Darkbomb and Shiv. Very slightly below par. Druid of the Flame: par on stats. Grove Tender: can't be perfectly compared, but it's statted reasonably for a small upside. Mark of Nature: no perfect comparison, but probably below par if we take Blessing of Might and Power Word: Shield into account. Keeper of the Grove: the way it's realistically statted out, it's good at handling 3/2s and thus aggro decks. Above par. Druid of the Claw: 4/6 with an ability is considered par (compare Spectral Knight), and 4/4 Charge for 5 beats Reckless Rocketeer for stats. Above par. Nourish: no real comparison, but the accepted draw formula appears to be: 1 mana=1 card plus (Tracking, old Flare), 3 mana=2 cards (Arcane Intellect), 5 mana=3 cards (Nourish), 7 mana=4 cards. Par. Starfall: subpar, given how unfavorably it compares to Mage removal. Dark Wispers: subpar. Ancient of Lore: holy shit so far above par it's incredible. Ancient of War: 15 total stats exceeds War Golem. It's unfair to compare it to Boom. Above par. Cenarius: 21 stats plus for 9 mana is above par. The card has some weaknesses, but it's stat-efficient. So, overall, Druid choice cards tend to be around par, slightly above par, or slightly below par. Either way, it's unfair to say they're all inadequate. Really, they're just acceptable cards with a choice of which acceptable card you get. None of the choice cards besides Lore are utterly bonkers, though, while non-choice class cards tend much more to be utterly bonkers. I'm not contesting that choice is valuable, just that these cards would be acceptably playable (though not remarkable) even without Choose One. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
I'm not here to explain that Druid cards are bad, because I'd be 100% wrong, my point is merely that, even though they're class cards, they clearly pay in some fashion for the fact that they have 2 different effects. As class cards, if they only had one of the two effects you see, you would expect most of them to be stronger. And the whole point of that rant is to explain why these new Forbidden spells are stronger than they appear. Especially in the context of the Priest class as a whole, Forbidden Shaping is the kind of card Priests can make use of. Despite being semi-random, it lets Priests use all their mana on any given turn, and establish a board presence by doing so. These are two things Priests have had trouble with. Priest players are all too familiar with the scenario where you heal and pass, or simply just pass. This card fills a big gap for them. | ||
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Hellonslaught
Brazil0 Posts
It's a worse version of unstable portal, but you don't get any mana discounts and can't play its battlecry. It would be playable if the minion goes to your hand from the remaining mana pool, but as it is, garbage. Even when it gets cool stuff: Archmage Antonidas? - out of mana Confessor Paletress? - out of mana Velen? - out of mana Nexus-Champion Saraad? - out of mana Have fun Edit: On March 18 2016 04:40 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote: I love the all-around side of the Forbidden Shaping. Fantastic card, I would only play it early if I have to though, even if I have no minion and this on turn2, if the matchup is safe it's better to greed with it, you can still play it the next turn anyway if things go south. The above argument that you will get below average value is true for the lower cost cards, but for 7+ mana you will always get a big threat. And I would assume this card will replace some early minion cards to make the decks more greedy while still having an early drop if needed. It's a super safe way to cut 2 small drops and get 2 more lategame threats without much drawback. I don't think it will be used after casting something else just to be "mana efficient", if the meta doesn't drastically change you don't really want to flood the board anyway. And lastly, since all 4 gods cost 10 mana and there are not that many 10 mana cards. On turn 10 it would often be one of the gods I guess, which would also mean the possibility of a 6/6 C'thun that does nothing for 10 mana, which sucks. So depending on the quality of the other old gods, it might be better to cast hero power before this on turn 10 Anyway, this gets me really hyped to play priest again, and to play again lol Very good points. I see now it has some potential. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
But no, the card's cost is technically 0, spending mana for the card is part of the effect, I believe. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bRPWkrn.png) | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
I'm expecting the warrior one to just be an armour version of this one tbh | ||
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Hellonslaught
Brazil0 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 18 2016 13:54 Hellonslaught wrote: Thoughtsteal Forbidden Healing T9 Archenei thoughtsteal T10 forbidden healing on enemy face | ||
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Aceace
Turkey1305 Posts
Forbidden Imgur: 0 mana Spend your all hope to see just 1 card. Can someone explain the card? Our dictator really banned imgur in Turkey... | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 18 2016 14:10 Aceace wrote: I cannot see the image. Forbidden Imgur: 0 mana Spend your all hope to see just 1 card. Can someone explain the card? Our dictator really banned imgur in Turkey... 0 mana spend your mana for *2 healing per mana spent so 1 mana = 2 health, 2 mana = 4, 3 mana = 6 so on so forth | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
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stealthrider
24 Posts
On March 18 2016 14:29 Dromar wrote: This one actually seems like it might be okay. If your opponent tries to ignore your minions and go face, they risk getting blown out by a 14/16/18 point heal. The card is like pure, concentrated Reno Jackson. Should have been called "Forbidden Riches." | ||
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