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On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote:
It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often.
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
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On February 20 2015 22:16 d00p wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2015 20:17 Enox wrote:On February 20 2015 19:57 chocomaro wrote:
No, but you might get banned for martyring.
what's martyring? saying something like "i may get banned for this but here it comes anyway...." Martyring is term that some teenagers on a power trip came up with. You don't really see it enforced because it's a dumb arbitary rule.
It's actually a bullet point in rule #2 of all the Liquid forums, and I've seen it enforced many times over the years:
Don't be a drama queen or martyr. Our forums aren't colonial America or Tiananmen Square. "This is going to get me banned, but..." results in an automatic ban.
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/hearthstone/456164-liquidhearth-forum-rules
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No matter what you guys say, these things will hold true:
1. she will never stream (if she does, there will be no commentary as she will be puppeted)
2. she will never make offline appearance (if she does, you will see less than ESL champ worthy plays)
3. she will never make video content (it will be a text content made by others)
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Those disscusions always in same way, there are 2 tribes fighting among themselves, sensitive defenders and agressive offenders... when in reality we don't know anything about MagicAmy and what is real.
The disscusion could be closed becouse right now it's a theory about cyvil rights, ??Bill Cosby?? and what's is right or wrong.
Nobody will tell the truth. Magicamy,Frodan,Reynad are fighting for their cause right now and their cause is your money.
Next time you donate to someone think twice 
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On February 21 2015 01:42 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote:
It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often. The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down? If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me.
Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
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If she did play in the offline tournament, people would be all over every little mistake she would make. The ESL series was far from perfect, but with people looking for and searching for proof of her doing the wrong play, they will find it regardless of how good or bad she is.
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On February 21 2015 01:09 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Obviously no one have to take shit from this trash community.
She realized that no matter what she did she would be continuously treated as a fraud; even if she went to that tournament and won people would have said she was on vocal or something.
Even if I had the necessary skill and dedication I would never try to be a progamer with such a disgusting community. Totally understand the way she stepped out, when people throw shit at you you don't have to throw it back, you can and should just get the hell away from those pricks.
You are absolutely right she should not be in such a disgusting community where she lied to ( Prismate,jab promises money not giving back ) And you understand completely that she as a person would not come back to this community because the 5k she woo'd mister into is also an act of kindness and not deceptive at all. The fact she even tried to get money off of Sjow which he declined was also.. just a perfectly well mannered person being in a "disgusting" community.
Mind you, there is no evidence she didnt cheat but her character and what she lied about and held people on a leash is something many people account for and have presented evidence of however TS is not interested in that.
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those dramas are definitily better than to play heartstone. : )
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On February 21 2015 01:38 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:14 vRadiatioNv wrote:On February 21 2015 00:45 ddayzy wrote:On February 20 2015 23:46 pannra wrote:On February 20 2015 23:33 litlnoobs wrote:On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote:
Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty. Not sure if serious... Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist. This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name. MagicAmy was investigated and cleared. She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR. This is what it says: Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute). Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that: 1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues'). 2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either). A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning. If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated?
There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
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On February 21 2015 01:59 GodZo wrote:
those dramas are definitily better than to play heartstone. : )
probably because way less RNG-dependent than Hurtstone
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its unfortunate to lose a legitimately interesting player because people went on a witch hunt, which ultimately proved to be false in the eyes of the only organization that matters in this particular instance.
lots of people saying she should prove her innocence. if i were in her shoes, i am not sure i would want to prove my innocence to a community that so quickly scoured my personal history and revealed it to the world as truth despite its baselessness apparently.
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well, she definitely has made an Impact on the community.
Sorry, I had to :p
But I do believe she had the RDU-"hi mom"-option as well. Show that she actually is a formidable player, pay back those whom she took money from (or try to show that she didn't golddig), apologize to Prismata. A lot of work for very little payoff though.
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I think people need to remember TempoStorm is an esports team, not the Hearthstone police. It is not their job to find everything there is to know about "magicamy" and try to find her guilty or innocent. They just need to run their team as best as they can, and make decisions that are in the best interest of their team.
You can draw whatever conclusions you want from what they said/didn't say, but my take is this:
-Hyerim Lee is a real person, who is probably the "main" person behind MagicAmy (does most of the communications/interactions).
-She probably had someone else play for her at some point, and I think the ESL win was not her playing. However, this is incredibly difficult to prove beyond any doubt, and you would basically have to have the "guilty" parties (if they exist) cop to it in order to prove it. I think Hyerim probably does play Hearthstone to some degree, but she has better players play a lot for her. I don't think the ESL win was her (again, this is just my speculation based on the evidence I've seen).
-Rather than continue to "investigate" an already shady character, they just decided to give her an ultimatum to put up or shut up, and she decided to leave. That is the easiest/best business decision for TempoStorm. Does it really get to the bottom of everything "magicamy" has done? No, but again, that isn't TempoStorm's job, they just need to make the decisions best for their team.
There are still a lot of questions unanswered, and they will probably remain unanswered because there isn't much of a reason to continue digging into this (except for esports drama). I think Hearthstone lost a shady/scammy player, and I don't see how that is a terrible thing. How good she was at Hearthstone itself, will probably be largely unknown to most of the community.
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On February 21 2015 01:50 Orcasgt24 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:42 ddayzy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:20 Sejanus wrote:
It seems the only reason ddayzy registered here was to accuse people of being rapists
I'm not implying he is from Canada, but who knows... In any case I wish the matter could be discussed in a civilized way, without calling people rapists, scum, disgusting and so on. But it seems it's hardly possible, since the people who are most vocal against online harassment are the ones doing it most often. The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down? If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me. Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you.
This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person?
No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.
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On February 21 2015 02:00 vRadiatioNv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 01:38 ddayzy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:14 vRadiatioNv wrote:On February 21 2015 00:45 ddayzy wrote:On February 20 2015 23:46 pannra wrote:On February 20 2015 23:33 litlnoobs wrote:On February 20 2015 22:42 pannra wrote:
Wow when they start bringing up Glen Beck you know the Liberals/Feminazis haven't a leg to stand on. MagicAmy was a public figure. Any public figure is guilty until proven innocent. Any public figure that is innocent will do what it takes to clear their name. Lee was given the chance to clear her name but decided against it. In the real world that means she's guilty. Not sure if serious... Of course you're not sure. You don't live in the real world. Look at what happened to Cosby. Some chics claim he raped them like 50 years ago. No evidence at all. No police reports because not a single one of them pressed charges. Yet people still assume he's a rapist. This isn't a court of law. Public figures are guilty until proven innocent and it's on them to prove their innocence. MagicAmy had multiple chances and was just given another chance to prove her innocence. Yet she refuses, once again, to clear her name. MagicAmy was investigated and cleared. She wasn't cleared. You guys need to learn how to read PR. This is what it says: Tempo Storm can prove that "Hyerim Lee" is a real person (this was never in dispute). Tempo Storm CANNOT prove that: 1. She didn't scam people (in fact they admit she probably did but want to overlook it as 'personal issues'). 2. She has been playing for herself (they admit they can't prove she has never botted either). A lot of what was said in the article demonstrates a lack of understanding. For example, they say that the fact that she wasn't banned in Blizzards bot banning waves supports that she is not a botter. Sure, but let's not pretend that Blizzard is perfect and catches and bans every botter. Also they question what Amy's "endgame" plan for this con scheme would have been by saying "she would have had to show up at a tournament eventually." The whole point of this type of con is to make as much money as possible before you get found out and I'm pretty sure she could have coasted on excuses for a LONG time (heck, she did with all the other people she took money from). The fact that TS gave her the opportunity to stay and participate in a live event and she turned them down is pretty damning. If you don't believe in a human right so basic as innocent until proven guilty we don't have a fundament to argue on. Your argument boils down to "She has not proven her innocence" which she has no obligation to do. I'm not arguing wheather or not she did any of the things she is accused of because we don't know, and that's the point. It's not about guilt, it's about hundreds of self rightious judge/jury/executioners comming out of the woodworks to join in a mob and go after someone which has not been proven guilty. The modern day pillroy. And after throwing shit at a peson who has not been proven guilty you demand they get out in front of you and jump through hoops until you are satisfied. You really think this is how a human being should be treated? There is a MOUNTAIN of evidence against her and you seem to be in denial about/pretending it doesn't exist. Tempo Storm themselves disagree with you and have found it necessary for her to prove herself. Basically everything in this case pointed to her not playing for herself and all she had to do is what is already in her contract to clear herself: show up at a live event. She backed down which is as much of an admission of guilt as you will ever get. I haven't even commented on issue until today because I wanted to see what came out. The evidence stands and she backs down. How can I reach any other conclusion?
Can you provide the conclusive evidence which proves without doubt that she did this? If so I would like you to present those evidence as I have yet to see them. Tempo Storm gave her a opprtunity to pay for her attending a live event, after being slammed by other players and the community you are really suprised she didn't want to jump through hoops for your sake? You treating someone like shit and then claiming she must be guilty if she doesnt stand in front of you, take more shit, and disprove it. There is no gaurantees she would have done amazing, and she would have to to silence critiques, and if she didn't that would have been taken as proof she cheated as well.
Honestly, look at yourself from the outside, would you want to have anything to do with you?
TemoStorm investigated it and caim to a conclussion, if you disagree with that I assume you have evidence they did not. If you do show it.
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This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
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Holy hell guys, can you please not feed the blatantly obvious troll?
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On February 21 2015 02:50 Ricjames wrote:
This thread just turned into fight between those who think she is a scam and those who defend her. I have some news for you all. It doesn't matter at all anymore. Everything was said and done and you can't change it anymore.
There is so much evidence against her that it is nearly impossible that she would be totally innocent and just a victim of angry internet kids. Also it is not that teenage boys on twitch chat accused her of something, but respected community members and pro players came up with something against her. Also many of them stated that they were suspicious for some time already, but didn't want to be stirring the water until more evidence came out.
Some people are just so ignorant that i sometimes wonder how can that even be possible. I am not saying she is guilty, i am saying that there is a huge probability that she is not legit and a money scam. She had a chance to prove herself, but refused and back out. Ok, she might be sick of this community and whatsoever that she didn't want to deal with it anymore, but If you are smart enough to become a pro HS player and you have a nice chance to achieve something and even make money of it (especially in her money hungry scenario), I doubt you would just back out. Also I am sure that among respected community, she would prove herself by showing up at a LAN tournament and playing at her average level (everyone can lose, but still play decent). Maybe she would remain guilty for those angry internet kids, but who cares about them....If she will be respected among the pro community, she will steadily get her respect everywhere else.
Also i have to laugh at those who say: This all happened just because she is a girl. Honestly I am a bit disappointed that it had to end like this. I definately think HS needs more good female players.
It is suprising to you that people have oposing views on a subject and that those views would be discussed in a post dedicated to that subject?
Of course it matters, your behaviour is not justified by it being done.
When it comes to hearthstone I sometimes have a hard time telling the difference between a fair chunk of the streamers and angry internet kids, they seem to feed of eachother.
You are not saying she is guilty you are just saying she is probably guilty?  Would you seriously want to stay after all this? I am sure there are some who would but not wanting to after this is hardly proof of guilt. I'm not arguing there is not evidence, neither am I arguing probability, I'm arguing that giving people not proven guilty the guilty treatment is a shitty way of behaving.
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Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
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On February 21 2015 03:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Yes, she's innocent until proven guilty.
However, at this point she's effectively guilty of engaging in 'shady behavior' (make of that what you will) and as a consequence has been let go from TS and is (presumably) banned from online tournaments. As far as I can tell she's still welcome to offline events, and welcome to return to online events once her offline play has been observed.
Outside of any derogatory comments made towards her (which generally just shouldn't happen) it seems like a pretty reasonable outcome.
where does it say she is banned from online tournaments?
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EPT
