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On February 21 2015 06:18 focusfight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 21 2015 06:11 focusfight wrote:On February 21 2015 06:02 dAPhREAk wrote:On February 21 2015 05:56 focusfight wrote:On February 21 2015 05:50 ref4 wrote:On February 21 2015 05:37 focusfight wrote:On February 21 2015 02:37 ddayzy wrote:On February 21 2015 01:50 Orcasgt24 wrote:On February 21 2015 01:42 ddayzy wrote:
[quote]
The irony and self pity in this post is staggering. One of the pillars of a civil society is innocent until proven guilty and yet you want to have a civil discussion if we should tear it down?
If you want to dish it out don't go and play the victim when you get the same back. Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in modern society. Before you are convicted of a crime you sit in jail. During your trial, you are in handcuffs and a prison jumpsuit and are escorted by prison guards between the courthouse and the jail. That reads alot more like guilty until proven innocent to me. Another interesting note is that during a criminal trial if you do nothing to disprove the evidence laid against you, you are found guilty. The burden is on you to disprove the accusations against you. This statment is both scary and funny at the same time. You assume every person who gets arrested is guilty? I don't, which one of us do you think is the smarter person? No it is not, you are found guilty if it can be proven beyond reasonable doubt that you did it. Proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is the burden of conviction for the prosecution in a CRIMINAL TRIAL. There are no criminal charges filed here. If anything this would be a civil case for fraud in which the burden of proof is a "preponderance of the evidence." The CIVIL suit standard is lower than criminal because there is no potential loss of liberty (jail time) for most civil offenses. Basically, you are using the wrong evidentiary standard or "burden of proof" as it is called. Like it or not, Magicamy doesn't have a right to be innocent until proven guilty here as you have been so adamantly claiming. At best, someone accusing her of fraud would only have to show that based on a reasonable interpretation of the evidence, that she committed the acts in question. I can promise you that circumstantial evidence presented on Reddit, Chakki's twitter, and statements of those she allegedly conned would all be admissible against her, even though it does not directly prove the scam. Stop trying to hide behind a weak legal argument that you very clearly do not understand. are we applying the American criminal law in this case, since it involves a Canadian man, a Korean woman, and a bunch of international people? Yes, I am applying general American criminal and civil law. There are certainly international implications to this, but for the sake of argument (and for the fact that I only know American law) I am only addressing the US law. the funny thing is many jurisdictions apply a clear and convincing burden of proof for fraud in the US.... not that it matters in any way, i just love internet lawyers. So you accuse me of being an internet lawyer when you just googled a jurisdictional split on the BoP for fraud? You were correct: it certainly does not matter. "Clear and convincing" is still a lower standard than "beyond a reasonable doubt." Nice try discrediting me, maybe next time. i didn't google. i am a california lawyer. you have made multiple misstatements of law while claiming some sort of superiority in american law. its amazing to me. i am not discrediting you, your statements discredit you as any sort of expert on american law. here's a shovel, keep digging that hole. Not worth my time.
thats too bad, because i was getting ready to list your misstatements as you requested.
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The only thing that seems sillier to me than adamantly believing all the bad stuff about MagicAmy is adamantly believing none of it.
I'm glad Tempostorm had the guts to give her an ultimatum, though. I didn't think they would, and if your team member isn't going to go to LANs despite not having any obstacles in her way they're not worth your time or money.
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lolwot. i have no opinion on this matter, but the fact that there's someone out there that could have these intentions is flat out funny. and kinda shows how ppl are drawn to just a pretty face on a stream...
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I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5
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As far as the burden of proof on one's guilt lies, many people here are confused between an actual civil/criminal trial and public perceptions. People will form opinions on whether someone is guilty based on the evidence they see. Most may not be comfortable with making a definitive call on guilt, but will see any piece of evidence as increasing or decreasing the perceived likelihood that someone is guilty. In my opinion, this piece of news points to a higher likelihood that MagicAmy is a fraud in the absence of further information. I don't actually know the truth, but I am less inclined to believe what she says than before.
It would be unreasonable for punishments to be handed out to her by any appropriate authorities at this point, including Blizzard, as she has not actually been proven guilty. However, if she doesn't put in some effort to dispel the suspicion, then it is completely reasonable for people to form opinions, and she should have expected that.
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On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5
I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
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On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5
the only thing that interested me about her was that she was female and appeared to have legit skill. other than trump, i dont remember a single other person from the ESL tournament. the only reason i remember trump was because he was doing stupid shit and then lost to her spectacularly.
in my mind, the likelihood tempostorm would have immediately picked her up after ESL if she wasnt a female is low. they wanted the new miracle female.
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On February 21 2015 13:53 Cheren wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5 I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI?
Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
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On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5
Interesting rating of skill ceiling. Where would QWOP rank on there?
Anyways, twitch is like TV. People want to watch the famous or the personalities over watching people who've got only skill. Its about entertainment.
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Nice trollfest in here.
Seems like there is nothing interesting to write about HS at all.
Look at this thread.
Cyvil rights, women,skill celling, games that are dumbed down,personalities.
Why are people active only when the heat is on?
Is the game really that boring ?
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On February 21 2015 15:19 BillGates wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 13:53 Cheren wrote:On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5 I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI? Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
Judging from the hilarious list that you posted, they must have people like you in mind when developing those "advancements". :^)
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On February 21 2015 17:11 Solmyr wrote:
Nice trollfest in here.
Seems like there is nothing interesting to write about HS at all.
Look at this thread.
Cyvil rights, women,skill celling, games that are dumbed down,personalities.
Why are people active only when the heat is on?
Is the game really that boring ?
Yep. We have alot of free time during games since many people play like Lifecoach....
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Here's the thing. Some people have some suspicions about some shit and decide to be little internet sleuths and then break their findings as if they're conclusive proof of something via reddit instead of taking it to people who had the means to investigate properly. So you're about to break a story that, true or not, is almost certainly going to ruin someone's career.
I mean look at all these people who know fuck all about what really happened and just don't give a shit? They're just going to take literally everything that's said or shown to them as evidence that MagicAmy is guilty. Won't talk to Forsen on Skype? Guilty. Won't jump through hoops to satisfy my curiosity? Guilty. Will jump through hoops but doesn't jump to my satisfaction? Guilty? Won't make a personal statement defending herself? Guilty. Makes a personal statement defending herself? Probably lying and still guilty. Anyone with a passing acquaintance with reality knows that there is exactly nothing Amy could say or do to convince these people of her innocence.
It doesn't even matter what the truth is because this community has condemned her and WOULD condemn her regardless. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together should know that breaking this story, true or not, would ruin this person's career. It was nigh on inevitable. Decent people would give a shit about this and strive to protect this person's privacy in case they were wrong. Because if you're wrong, you've ruined an innocent person's career. A decent person cares about these things. They care about being sure they're right before they fuck with someone's life and career.
So, do I know whether MagicAmy is guilty or not? Nope. But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions. So, congratulations and shit.
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On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote:
... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game.
Or you know... stream for the first time ever
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On February 21 2015 18:02 Shoxy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote:
... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game. Or you know... stream for the first time ever
So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious.
If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? Why wouldn't someone just fucking cut their losses and find something else to do with their life besides try to prove their worth to a bunch of gullible jackasses who are falling all over themselves to believe every negative thing about you and turn every mistake you ever made into evidence of some nefarious scheme to do...something...nobody has the foggiest idea what the end goal is supposed to have been, but I'm sure it's horrible because reasons.
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On February 21 2015 19:49 piegasm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 18:02 Shoxy wrote:On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote:
... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game. Or you know... stream for the first time ever So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious. If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? [...]
First I want to say, that I don´t know if Magicamy exists or not. But all this "evidence" makes me at least think that there might be sth. to it.
So what would I do, if I would be Amy, you know, the "REAL Amy"? I´d laugh at it and come to a LAN. Do I have to? Hell no, but if I ever want to be taken serious in the future, then yes, I would do it. Especially if my team pays the trip anyway.
So what would I do, if I am a fake Amy? Run away or let´s say "retire".
Are there things I could do in between those two outcomes? Certainly. Yet it is the internet and people will assume I am a fake. So If I can live with that, well, then there is no reason to cater some "investigators".
As to your question "why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community?": Depends on her/him or course. If she/he is interested in
a) being invited to tournaments
b) streaming or
c) getting paid a salary
then yes, you should want to be part of the community, because you being there will give you these opportunities.
We know, that she/he is not interested in a) or b). But I don´t think that situation as it is will make a c) possible anymore.
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On February 21 2015 19:49 piegasm wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 18:02 Shoxy wrote:On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote:
... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game. Or you know... stream for the first time ever So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious. If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why?
I dunno, maybe making a couple hundred thousand dollars in text-to-speech donation jokes on her stream until Twitch makes her silence it, then making slightly less money when donations are just displayed on her stream? That's why Reynad streams despite hating the game and everyone that watches his stream.
I mean, seriously. She could rake in money hand over fist and then disappear. That's a pretty obvious incentive to stream and remain active. There's no reason to believe she's some delicate flower (like Reynad) that can't handle people making obvious and stupid jokes at her expense to make a few hundred grand.
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On February 21 2015 21:18 Elizar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 19:49 piegasm wrote:On February 21 2015 18:02 Shoxy wrote:On February 21 2015 17:38 piegasm wrote:
... But neither do any of you and you gleefully ruined someone's career based on your suspicions.
Stop white knighting, If she is who she claims she is, none of this affects her ability to play the game. Or you know... stream for the first time ever So being honest about what I actually know is "white knighting". That's fucking hilarious. If MagicAmy is who she claims she is, why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community? Seriously, why? [...] First I want to say, that I don´t know if Magicamy exists or not. But all this "evidence" makes me at least think that there might be sth. to it. So what would I do, if I would be Amy, you know, the "REAL Amy"? I´d laugh at it and come to a LAN. Do I have to? Hell no, but if I ever want to be taken serious in the future, then yes, I would do it.
If I'm the REAL Amy, why do I give a flying fuck about whether I'm taken seriously by the kind of people who've just done their damnedest to ruin my career? These people have already demonstrated that they don't, in fact, take me seriously and they've given me no reason to feel they're worth the effort it would take to win them back over to my side.
Are there things I could do in between those two outcomes? Certainly. Yet it is the internet and people will assume I am a fake. So If I can live with that, well, then there is no reason to cater some "investigators".
It's not catering to "investigators" that would keep me away. It would be the constant badgering and questions and mockery. It's easy for someone to whom none of this is happening to say you'd just laugh at it and go. You're not the one having to face that kind of treatment every time you stick your nose out your metaphorical front door for however long you're a part of the ESports scene.
As to your question "why the ever-loving fuck would she want anything to do with this community?": Depends on her/him or course. If she/he is interested in
a) being invited to tournaments
b) streaming or
c) getting paid a salary
then yes, you should want to be part of the community, because you being there will give you these opportunities.
Explain why those opportunities are worth enduring the way people would treat her. There are a million ways to get paid a salary. Of course everyone would rather get paid a lot to do something they enjoy than just punch a clock for a modest wage. But if it's a situation where the people you'd have to spend your time around to do the thing you enjoy are treating you like shit? It's incredibly dishonest to act like choosing the more ordinary living in exchange for at least being treated decently isn't a perfectly reasonable choice to make. Again it's easy to act like it's just a bunch of harmless jokes when you're not the target of it.
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On February 21 2015 15:19 BillGates wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2015 13:53 Cheren wrote:On February 21 2015 13:12 BillGates wrote:
I don't believe a word anonymous internet retards are saying about magicamy.
Why would she/he do the dual personalities? It makes no sense, she is not very attractive to get significantly more twitch views from that and guys get more views anyways. Nadia and Hafu are pretty legit in their hearthstone legend ranks, but its still couple dozen of guys who have a lot more views than they do.
And Hearthstone doesn't require much skill at all. I mean don't kid yourself, its a very simple and easy game with very low skill ceiling.
Brood War has like 50 skill ceiling
SC2 - 40
Dota 1 - 20
Dota 2 - 10
Hearthstone - 5 I'll bite, why is the skill ceiling in Dota 1 twice as high? Harder UI? Exactly. Same for Brood War over SC2. The new UI's and "advancements" are all basically dumbing downs for games for dumber and dumber people!
You're right. I sincerely miss having to control Dragoons that do precisely the opposite of what I tell them to do, or having scarabs wiff because of top-notch 90's programming. 
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Not defending her or anything here, but if I was a girl I would probably also never ever join skype with forsen.
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EPT
